New Tenant and Rent Increase

jsd1004

gizmo81 wrote: »

And the business of renting property is governed. So whether his property is worth 63% more than the current rent, your opinion, his opinion and economics are all immaterial.

The law says it's worth no more than a 4% increase and that's the end of it!

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Ok So. Didnt realise you were a lawyer and brought through the courts to test the legislation. Thanks for the info and legal clarification.

athtrasna

In case you missed the note above, jsd1004 and gizmo81 please continue this conversation by pm if you feel the need to but monopolising the thread in this way is off putting to other posters so it needs to end here to avoid further moderator action.

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MintyMagnum

mrcheez wrote: »

Just curious, if you are renting out a place for the first time, can you set the price to whatever you like?

Currently own a house, but might be going abroad so may rent it out. (or are you restricted to a max rate based on the market in the area?)

Has this been answered?

The_Conductor

Guys- with respect of letting a property for the first time in a RPZ- the rent must be in keeping with market rents for the area (a landlord must show 3 comparable properties at the rent level being sought). However- a new tenant may have difficulty in disputing a starting rent- as obviously they agreed it and other people were willing to offer it- and it was not set at a controlled level prior to the initiation of the tenancy.

At the end of the day- it may suit a new landlord better to look at other stipulations- other than simply maximising rental income- at the initiation of a new tenancy (the most common of which in Galway and Dublin is a standard deposit of 3 months rent- with preference given to prospective renters who are willing to pay a higher multiple of month's rent in advance- rather than the headline monthly rent sum). This suits for a number of purposes- including the fact that a newly rented property may have costs associated with it which can soak up a lot of the possible tax implications at the outset- but be worth less in subsequent years (e.g. depreciation of white goods @ 12.5% is a finite allowable cost).

At the end of the day- if you're considering being a landlord, you really should get good tax advice and membership of an organisation like Irish Landlords, and educate yourself to the maximum extent possible about both your rights and obligations, alongside those of your tenants, and methods for best managing your business and maximising the potential of your asset (which may include official works now or down the road- changing the layout of the property, converting badly utilised space, procuring additional storage for tenants, parking spaces etc etc.

Sitting back and imagining that letting out a property is an arm's length activity that you can relegate to a couple of minutes here or there- is not a viable proposition- for either landlords or tenants- is not fair to either party- and ultimately- leads to trouble.

Samuel T. Cogley

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

Has anyone any other ideas?

My sympathy is running out I have to admit. You have one option and that's to comply with the law as it stands. If you can't do that, or invest the tiny amount of time it takes to keep up with the relevant legislation get out of the industry.

You can easily manage the demand by supplying an email address only, and requesting references to be attached. Find a nice few tenants and explain the situation, set the expectation that rent will rise every year in line with the legislation.

You *MAY* have some traction on rooms and increasing it by 33% that way - I doubt it, but you could at least make the case if it ever got the the RTB.

76544567

Another option
Call some agents (so you can be hands off) and ask them to look after airbnbing it for you.
You'll actually make more that way even after tax and expenses in Dublin.

Most agents doing this now. Big demand for it since Christmas. They will also use other similar sites to airbnb too.

Sean Fantastic

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

My sympathy is running out I have to admit. You have one option and that's to comply with the law as it stands. If you can't do that, or invest the tiny amount of time it takes to keep up with the relevant legislation get out of the industry.

You can easily manage the demand by supplying an email address only, and requesting references to be attached. Find a nice few tenants and explain the situation, set the expectation that rent will rise every year in line with the legislation.

You *MAY* have some traction on rooms and increasing it by 33% that way - I doubt it, but you could at least make the case if it ever got the the RTB.

OK, thanks, I'll look into the rooms aspect. It could be the way forward. I don't need your sympathy or judgement though.

DubCount

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

Has anyone any other ideas?

The idea that 2 identical properties have completely different rent caps is daft - but that's what our politicians have given us.

Only options that I can see as being within the law
1) Advertise at x+4% and suck up the lost income and extra hastle
2) Sell the property and buy another one that is not rent restricted (the transaction costs may be less than the lost earnings from 1)
3) AirBnB the property for 2 years to extinguish the rent cap (subject to that being within planning laws etc.)
4) Live in the property yourself for 2 years to extinguish the rent cap

Nothing too appealing in that lot.

There were no laws to protect landlords when rents were falling. They have done nothing to stop non-payment of rent and overholding losses hitting landlords. Kick the landlord is the current trend - and then wonder why there are not long lines of new landlords looking to make super-profiteering profits.

Good luck

Graham

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

Has anyone any other ideas?

I can only come up with an option that is probably equally unpalatable:

g) substantial refurbishment.

Substantial refurbishment appears to be a fairly grey area. The Conductor knows more about is so maybe he will chime in.

On the plus side, you're not trying to end a tenancy on the basis of a 'substantial refurbishment' so your interpretation of substantial refurbishment is going to come under less scrutiny.

That said, maybe you could look at the property to see what (if any) structural improvements you could make that would also add value to the property itself. Open plan kitchen-diner maybe?

Samuel T. Cogley

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

I don't need your sympathy or judgement though.

Then don't be suggesting or trying to justify illegal activity on an open forum. It's attitudes like yours that feed into this notion that all LL's are corrupt and don't bother to keep up to date with the rules of their own business.

You made your bed.

Sean Fantastic

DubCount wrote: »

The idea that 2 identical properties have completely different rent caps is daft - but that's what our politicians have given us.

Only options that I can see as being within the law
1) Advertise at x+4% and suck up the lost income and extra hastle
2) Sell the property and buy another one that is not rent restricted (the transaction costs may be less than the lost earnings from 1)
3) AirBnB the property for 2 years to extinguish the rent cap (subject to that being within planning laws etc.)
4) Live in the property yourself for 2 years to extinguish the rent cap

Nothing too appealing in that lot.

There were no laws to protect landlords when rents were falling. They have done nothing to stop non-payment of rent and overholding losses hitting landlords. Kick the landlord is the current trend - and then wonder why there are not long lines of new landlords looking to make super-profiteering profits.

Good luck

I hadn't considered the AirBnB option before. Can I hand the property over to an agency to do it? Any pros/cons? Recommendations? Has anyone here done it?

The house is 3 bedrooms.

Samuel T. Cogley

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

I hadn't considered the AirBnB option before. Can I hand the property over to an agency to do it? Any pros/cons? Recommendations? Has anyone here done it?

The house is 3 bedrooms.

Arguably it requires planning. In certain areas in Dublin you may find complaints are quicker to appear and followed through with more vigor. There is also some suggestion that Part IV might apply if used for over six months for a given occupant.

Sean Fantastic

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Arguably it requires planning. In certain areas in Dublin you may find complaints are quicker to appear and followed through with more vigor.

Does that mean it's unclear?

Samuel T. Cogley

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

Does that mean it's unclear?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057661068

Last page or so.

Graham

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

Does that mean it's unclear?

It's pretty much completely unenforced at the moment.

76544567

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

I hadn't considered the AirBnB option before. Can I hand the property over to an agency to do it? Any pros/cons? Recommendations? Has anyone here done it?

The house is 3 bedrooms.

As i said above, i have done exactly that.
I had been over thinking it and it actually I turned out Very saightforward and easy in the end.

Once the two years are up i may even keep at it.
But only with one property.

Another option for you is to ignore the rent cap and take your chances with a case.
Pretty sure you would win. But it's very dangerous for one person to fight the case. Though it did work recently for the nppr tax. He people who ignored that are laughing now.

davindub

76544567 wrote: »

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

I hadn't considered the AirBnB option before. Can I hand the property over to an agency to do it? Any pros/cons? Recommendations? Has anyone here done it?

The house is 3 bedrooms.

As i said above, i have done exactly that.
I had been over thinking it and it actually I turned out Very saightforward and easy in the end.

Once the two years are up i may even keep at it.
But only with one property.

Another option for you is to ignore the rent cap and take your chances with a case.
Pretty sure you would win. But it's very dangerous for one person to fight the case. Though it did work recently for the nppr tax. He people who ignored that are laughing now.

Do you actually get enough bookings to make it worthwhile?

I was looking at it but on the site it shows how many booking there were, I kind of worked it out that I would be losing money overall.

Graham

gizmo81 wrote: »

it didn't say you gave the rent at a reduced price

The OP isn't particularly cryptic:

Sean Fantastic wrote: »

the rent is now way off current market rates. It would need an increase of about 63% to normalise it

Samuel T. Cogley

76544567 wrote: »

Pretty sure you would win. But it's very dangerous for one person to fight the case. Though it did work recently for the nppr tax. He people who ignored that are laughing now.

Genuine question as I don't know where his costs awarded against the state?

It's laudable and the guy should be applauded, someone should also take the current legislation to task as well but the resources needed to do so are immense.

athtrasna

Yet another thread that we've needed to close, much cleaning up to be done. Posters are reminded that the forum charter requires civil posts and suggestions of illegal activity are not permitted

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