Rental Advise Please

SMTF

Hi, Im in a bit of a situation at the moment.

My partner and I went to view a house last week. We looked around for a couple of minutes with the letting agent and said it looked fine.
We paid our deposit and received the keys yesterday (we didnt have intentions of moving in for 2-3 weeks) so we went up to the house last night to make sure everything was in order.

Thats when we discovered plenty of problems.

- We took the mattress protectors off the bed to see the mattresses themselves were destroyed; ripped, stained, springs gone.
- The couches all had springs gone; could not sit on them.
- Fridge is faulty.
- Freezer broken.
- Window broken.
- Fence is falling down and completely broken on some panels; looks quite dangerous.

I realise I am not blameless in this and we should have sat on couches etc. to check their condition.

We rang the letting agent and the landlord rang my partner at the same time. We told both of them about the issues.
Letting agent said to send him through a list of the issues and he would hold the deposit and wouldnt release it to the landlord.
The landlord doesnt seem very interested in sorting the issues but said to send him the list of issues as well.

Where do I stand here? Will we lose the deposit?

baldbear

If the landlord has a brain he will fix all those problems.

He hardly wants a tenant moving in who refuses to pay rent until the problems are fixed.

Their are minimum standards the landlord has to follow.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

Keep nagging the letting agent about fixing all the problems & replacing the mattress.

Ms Doubtfire1

you shouldn't loose the deposit - LL and tenant can 'terminate' without reason given in the first 6 month of a lease.Tell him fix or you'd walk out.

mrslancaster

Just wondering if you signed a lease?

Samuel T. Cogley

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

you shouldn't loose the deposit - LL and tenant can 'terminate' without reason given in the first 6 month of a lease.Tell him fix or you'd walk out.

With the required notice and assuming they did not sign a fixed term lease. That said if the LL is threatening to keep the deposit simply move in and immediately open a case with the RTB.

Anything that is urgent, pay for yourself and add to the RTB case, bear in mind that the RTB may decide it's unreasonable, but you can always take a mattress etc. with you.

mrslancaster

Just read the information on the link posted above by baldbear.
Am I right in thinking that LL's are not required to provide furniture, just kitchen appliances?

Samuel T. Cogley

mrslancaster wrote: »

Just read the information on the link posted above by baldbear.
Am I right in thinking that LL's are not required to provide furniture, just kitchen appliances?

Beyond the legislation, if it's advertised as furnished, then there would be an expectation that that furniture is serviceable.

Mrs OBumble

mrslancaster wrote: »

Just read the information on the link posted above by baldbear.
Am I right in thinking that LL's are not required to provide furniture, just kitchen appliances?

Yes you are right.

Graham

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Beyond the legislation, if it's advertised as furnished, then there would be an expectation that that furniture is serviceable.

Unfortunately it would be a tough fight to win beyond the items on the minimum standards list.

Samuel T. Cogley

Graham wrote: »

Unfortunately it would be a tough fight to win beyond the items on the minimum standards list.

Not really, it's simple contract. The RTB might not be the right forum for it in fairness, but they might have to be if the dispute is mandated to them.

Graham

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Not really, it's simple contract. The RTB might not be the right forum for it in fairness, but they might have to be if the dispute is mandated to them.

I can't imagine the RTB would get involved, Smallclaims may not be appropriate either. False advertising? Court?

I can't speak for the OP but none of those options would be appealing to me and almost certainly any of them would destroy the relationship between landlord and tenant.

That's not to say I think it's right or fair on the OP it's just the reality of the situation.

Realistically the options are:

1) negotiate with the landlord on the non-minimum standard elements.
2) cut the losses and find somewhere else.
3) procure own furniture

mrslancaster

It seems the rental market here will soon be going the same way as the UK or other European countries which is typically unfurnished.

It seems odd that Irish LL's completely furnish and kit-out rental properties if they are not legally required to do so.

Samuel T. Cogley

If the case was allowed in the DC using the Small Claims Procedure (but I think the case would be mandated to the RTB) I can't see a problem to be frank. Simple contract, said it was furnished, mattress was knackered €400 and the sofa needed to be repaired €200, job done really.

Just my 2 cents of course.

Of course if it is mandated to the RTB, it would get so complicated as not to be worth the effort so I take your point there on minimum standards.

Where's 4ensic15 when you need him, the man is an encyclopedia of these RTB decisions. Although when I'm back at work tomorrow maybe I should stop being lazy and go and look myself.

Samuel T. Cogley

mrslancaster wrote: »

It seems the rental market here will soon be going the same way as the UK or other European countries which is typically unfurnished.

It seems odd that Irish LL's completely furnish and kit-out rental properties if they are not legally required to do so.

Like many things in Ireland it's because they was it was always done. Typically people don't stay long so the furnishing needs to be provided. The minimum standards (or any enforcement of same) has been a relatively recent thing.

mrslancaster

Looking at the OP query - if the LL repaired the fridge, freezer and window and either repaired or removed the broken fence then he would be complying with the legislation.

Would the tenant then need to take a case to the RTB to get the furniture issues sorted - any idea how long would that take?

gizmo81

This happened us last year. We took photos of everything and sent them to the letting agent and informed them if the work wasn't carried out as a matter of urgency we would report them to the PRSA and RTB.

We informed them that either they were being deceptive in hiding the stained mattress and faulty items or completely incompetent in their job.

I don't believe it's prospective tenants jobs to go flipping mattresses or moving white appliances to check for disrepair. Landlords should be upfront about issues so the tenant can make an informed decision.

A piece of advice, we put our complaint in writing with the photos in a PDF and contrasted them with the photos of the listing. We sent this to the letting agent who we worked with but also to the head office of the company.

All work was carried out for us.

SMTF wrote: »

Hi, Im in a bit of a situation at the moment.

My partner and I went to view a house last week. We looked around for a couple of minutes with the letting agent and said it looked fine.
We paid our deposit and received the keys yesterday (we didnt have intentions of moving in for 2-3 weeks) so we went up to the house last night to make sure everything was in order.

Thats when we discovered plenty of problems.

- We took the mattress protectors off the bed to see the mattresses themselves were destroyed; ripped, stained, springs gone.
- The couches all had springs gone; could not sit on them.
- Fridge is faulty.
- Freezer broken.
- Window broken.
- Fence is falling down and completely broken on some panels; looks quite dangerous.

I realise I am not blameless in this and we should have sat on couches etc. to check their condition.

We rang the letting agent and the landlord rang my partner at the same time. We told both of them about the issues.
Letting agent said to send him through a list of the issues and he would hold the deposit and wouldnt release it to the landlord.
The landlord doesnt seem very interested in sorting the issues but said to send him the list of issues as well.

Where do I stand here? Will we lose the deposit?

Graham

mrslancaster wrote: »

Looking at the OP query - if the LL repaired the fridge, freezer and window and either repaired or removed the broken fence then he would be complying with the legislation.

Landlord would then be compliant with the minimum standards.

mrslancaster wrote: »

Would the tenant then need to take a case to the RTB to get the furniture issues sorted - any idea how long would that take?

I'm not convinced the furniture falls under the residential tenancies act and therefore I'm not convinced it falls under the remit of the RTB. I am most definitely open to correction on this.

spaceHopper

Tell the agent you want your money back, any LL who even thinks of letting a house in such poor state will never do anything for you. You'll find that these problems are only the tip of the iceberg did you check the heating and hot water....

gizmo81

Furnishings come under the Minimum standards which are set out in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008 and the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) (Amendment) Regulations 2009.

What are the main features of the new Regulations? 
Article 5 - Structural Condition
All rental accommodation must be maintained in a proper state of structural repair. This means that the dwelling must be essentially sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

So furnishings must be in good condition and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

gizmo81

I have to agree with this poster, while we got the property brought up to standard it has been stressful.

spaceHopper wrote: »

Tell the agent you want your money back, any LL who even thinks of letting a house in such poor state will never do anything for you. You'll find that these problems are only the tip of the iceberg did you check the heating and hot water....

Graham

gizmo81 wrote: »

Furnishings come under the Minimum standards which are set out in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008 and the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) (Amendment) Regulations 2009.

What are the main features of the new Regulations? 
Article 5 - Structural Condition
All rental accommodation must be maintained in a proper state of structural repair. This means that the dwelling must be essentially sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

So furnishings must be in good condition and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

Well spotted.

In which case the OP could lodge a complaint with the local authority.

SMTF

Thanks so much for all the replies and advise.

The landlord was in touch with us about the list of issues we sent to him and was prepared to carry out some of the work/replacements, but not others.

He said he knew the mattresses needed to be replaced so said he would replace 2 out of 3 of them - not really good enough IMO as they were all a disgrace and well used (they were all honestly so thin that the ham sandwich I had for my lunch was thicker).

No mention of the cracked window, hole in the wall, fridge, freezer - so seemingly we would just have to deal with these issues.

Regarding the fence, he told us he cant wave a magic wand and fix it - we're reasonable people, I would have been happy to agree to it being fixed in X number of days/weeks. It would be inconvenient to us as we have a dog, but we would deal with it. But he doesnt seem to want to repair this either.

At this stage, his attitude stinks and since we asked the letting agent not to release the money to the landlord, we're asking for it back.
I just want to walk away from it now as those were the issues we discovered after 15 mins in the property - I dread to think what other issues we will find if we moved in.

Graham

I think you're right to run away. Your (potential) landlord is either completely oblivious to the minimum standards or doesn't care.

gizmo81

I wish we walked away last year to be honest. Your got a strong indication of what it will be like to deal with him in the future so if you can spend more time looking it really is the best option.

I would still report both him and the letting agent.

SMTF wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the replies and advise.

The landlord was in touch with us about the list of issues we sent to him and was prepared to carry out some of the work/replacements, but not others.

He said he knew the mattresses needed to be replaced so said he would replace 2 out of 3 of them - not really good enough IMO as they were all a disgrace and well used (they were all honestly so thin that the ham sandwich I had for my lunch was thicker).

No mention of the cracked window, hole in the wall, fridge, freezer - so seemingly we would just have to deal with these issues.

Regarding the fence, he told us he cant wave a magic wand and fix it - we're reasonable people, I would have been happy to agree to it being fixed in X number of days/weeks. It would be inconvenient to us as we have a dog, but we would deal with it. But he doesnt seem to want to repair this either.

At this stage, his attitude stinks and since we asked the letting agent not to release the money to the landlord, we're asking for it back.
I just want to walk away from it now as those were the issues we discovered after 15 mins in the property - I dread to think what other issues we will find if we moved in.

SMTF

What would I report them for?

Well, I know I could report the landlord for the minimum standards not being met, and I know the property isnt registered on the PRTB website as I have checked.

But id like to keep the letting agent on my side. There isnt many letting agents around this area, so if another house comes up for rent, I dont want to damage the relationship.. Although.. Maybe I already have by asking for my money back?

Ms Doubtfire1

SMTF wrote: »

What would I report them for?

Well, I know I could report the landlord for the minimum standards not being met, and I know the property isnt registered on the PRTB website as I have checked.

But id like to keep the letting agent on my side. There isnt many letting agents around this area, so if another house comes up for rent, I dont want to damage the relationship.. Although.. Maybe I already have by asking for my money back?

you shouldn't have. If you're renting in that area theres most likely only one agent anyway if there's not that many properties..where are you looking anyways? doesn't sound like dublin...