Attic window added resulting in loss of privacy

mrcheez

I'll install a nice big picture of goatse facing out from the back of my house and it might encourage them to install frosted glass

Cloudio9

mrcheez wrote: »

Aha... found the planning permission afterall

"loft conversion with ... 1 box dormer window to rear elevation"

Oh well that's that then... one would have thought the planning permission postings would be visible to the rear residents as well but I guess that's not how it works (it's actually a winding road that's well out of the way in order to pass by the house in question so not something the affected residents would normally pass by to see any planning permission notices)

In the list of conditions in the planning approval document are there any conditions relating to the window ?

I've read quite a few domestic planning rulings which require specific types of windows in order to protect the privacy of neighbours.

mrcheez

Cloudio9 wrote: »

In the list of conditions in the planning approval document are there any conditions relating to the window ?

I've read quite a few domestic planning rulings which require specific types of windows in order to protect the privacy of neighbours.

Nope. No mention of the type of window or materials thereof.

lawred2

mrcheez wrote: »

I'll install a nice big picture of goatse facing out from the back of my house and it might encourage them to install frosted glass

lol

Mr McBoatface

Cloudio9 wrote: »

In the list of conditions in the planning approval document are there any conditions relating to the window ?

I've read quite a few domestic planning rulings which require specific types of windows in order to protect the privacy of neighbours.

Let it go Mrcheez has his answer and plan :-)

@ Mrcheez , it sets a persistent should you ever decide to go down the extension route. Take the positive out of it..... hopefully some eyecandy will occupy the room :-)

Sleeper12

ThisRegard wrote:

Is planning not required if the window is within a certain distance of the houses behind, or something like that?

Not for a regular attic window. No if op was talking about a dormer window then planning is needed. Velux windows flat on the roof are fine

mrcheez

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not for a regular attic window. No if op was talking about a dormer window then planning is needed. Velux windows flat on the roof are fine

I was talking about a dormer window, just didn't know it was called that. Learn something new... too bad my attic is too small to get my own :mad:

Mr McBoatface

mrcheez wrote: »

I was talking about a dormer window, just didn't know it was called that. Learn something new... too bad my attic is too small to get my own :mad:

In my attic at the moment, I haven't been up here in a year, it's actually already converted but no dormer window, just a velux on the rear. I think I'll get double the space with a dormer window to the side.....


Cheers Mrcheez you got me thinking now

Calahonda52

60 posts in less than 3 hours.....

Op: now that we have established the "facts" go into g-maps and

1. expand detail to max in satellite view that allows you see both properties
2. select the position of the new window with the cursor, left click
3. right click on the mouse and select measure distance
4. move cursor to your window
5. left click and report back with the measurement

Mr McBoatface

Calahonda52 wrote: »

60 posts in less than 3 hours.....

Op: now that we have established the "facts" go into g-maps and

1. expand detail to max in satellite view that allows you see both properties
2. select the position of the new window with the cursor
3. right click on the mouse and select measure distance
4. Left click on the new window, move cursor to your window
5. left click and report back with the measurement

Permission granted already. Case closed

hognef

kceire wrote: »

There's only so much we can legislate for and in fairness only so much site notices you can put up on an urban site.

Wouldn't be particularly hard to require a notice to be delivered to all adjacent dwellings and/or any dwellings within x meters of the site border.

That would ensure the ones that are likely to be affected by the new construction are given a chance to react, unlike the current system which really requires people to actively go looking for site notices every so often to avoid getting caught.

Such a system works perfectly fine in other countries. Of course this would be far too obvious for this country.

Cloudio9

Fingal county council allows you to set up alerts for planning in your area.

Gumbo

hognef wrote: »

Wouldn't be particularly hard to require a notice to be delivered to all adjacent dwellings and/or any dwellings within x meters of the site border.

That would ensure the ones that are likely to be affected by the new construction are given a chance to react, unlike the current system which really requires people to actively go looking for site notices every so often to avoid getting caught.

Such a system works perfectly fine in other countries. Of course this would be far too obvious for this country.

That would be a PITA.
What other countries does this happen in? I'm curious (as someone who lodged planning apps on a monthly basis) to see how the system works.

Thanks.

Calahonda52

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

Permission granted already. Case closed

Not iff the proximity fails the planning requirements, very often missed, resulting in opaque glass being retro-ed on a retention application.
In any event the method may help the OP.

listermint

hognef wrote: »

Wouldn't be particularly hard to require a notice to be delivered to all adjacent dwellings and/or any dwellings within x meters of the site border.

That would ensure the ones that are likely to be affected by the new construction are given a chance to react, unlike the current system which really requires people to actively go looking for site notices every so often to avoid getting caught.

Such a system works perfectly fine in other countries. Of course this would be far too obvious for this country.

You'd never be able to build anything.

Neighbours can be prick's it goes both ways even if their concerns are not legitimate

hognef

listermint wrote: »

You'd never be able to build anything.

Neighbours can be prick's it goes both ways even if their concerns are not legitimate

If illegitimate concerns result in denied applications, then that's a fault in the decision making, not in the planning notice.

Are you suggesting the only reason anyone is ever able to build anything is that thos who are likely to have concerns can be kept in the dark?

listermint

hognef wrote: »

If illegitimate concerns result in denied applications, then that's a fault in the decision making, not in the planning notice.

Are you suggesting the only reason anyone is ever able to build anything is that thos who are likely to have concerns can be kept in the dark?

No i am not but it seems to be your assertion that people should have to put up notices everywhere in case they miss someone what next notices in the newspapers?

Ridiculous

hognef

kceire wrote: »

That would be a PITA.
What other countries does this happen in? I'm curious (as someone who lodged planning apps on a monthly basis) to see how the system works.

Thanks.

What exactly would cause the PITA?

Norway is one example that I'm aware of, and I'd be very surprised if other Scandinavian and Nordic countries don't operate similarly.

As a neighbour, you receive plans by registered post (in similar detail to what is currently available here through the planning websites), and have a certain time period (1 month, I believe) to register any concerns.

0ph0rce0

I have seen this on boards a few times now.

Here's a question for everyone.

This maybe a silly question but surely if you live in a housing estate, terraced, semi-detached house etc...

Cant you see into lots of gardens from your bedroom/back windows??

I've never been in a house where you could not see the next doors garden and even the gardens beyond that? Have people got walls 100ft high?

What difference would another window make when there could be 2, 3 or 4 already there?

NyOmnishambles

listermint wrote: »

No i am not but it seems to be your assertion that people should have to put up notices everywhere in case they miss someone what next notices in the newspapers?

Ridiculous

Ehm you do have to put a notice in the paper for a planning application

hognef

listermint wrote: »

No i am not but it seems to be your assertion that people should have to put up notices everywhere in case they miss someone what next notices in the newspapers?

Ridiculous

I'm suggesting delivering notices by (registered) post. To those that are likely to actually be affected by your plans

Ridiculous?

Gumbo

hognef wrote: »

I'm suggesting delivering notices by (registered) post. To those that are likely to actually be affected by your plans

Ridiculous?

In an urban setting like Dublin, that could be to 100 houses or there abouts depending on the estate you live in.

The Public Notice in the garden and the Newspaper is satisfactory in my opinion.

hognef

kceire wrote: »

In an urban setting like Dublin, that could be to 100 houses or there abouts depending on the estate you live in.

The Public Notice in the garden and the Newspaper is satisfactory in my opinion.

I've yet to see a house with 100 immediate neighbours, even in Dublin.

The site notice clearly isn't enough, as this thread has highlighted, when it's posted in a location that you never visit (e.g. you live at the front of the estate, the neighbour across your back garden and on a street further onto the estate wants to extend in into their garden).

The message in a site notice is also less likely to reach a disabled neighbour, for example.

And, how many read the physical paper regularly these days? You post the notice in the paper because it's a requirement, not because it will actually be read by any interested party.

Gumbo

hognef wrote: »

I've yet to see a house with 100 immediate neighbours, even in Dublin.

The site notice clearly isn't enough, as this thread has highlighted, when it's posted in a location that you never visit (e.g. you live at the front of the estate, the neighbour across your back garden and on a street further onto the estate wants to extend in into their garden).

The message in a site notice is also less likely to reach a disabled neighbour, for example.

And, how many read the physical paper regularly these days? You post the notice in the paper because it's a requirement, not because it will actually be read by any interested party.

But in this case, it's not in any way, shape or form affecting the OP. If he had of known about it, what would he have done? Lodge an opbjection? It would not have stopped the development. The first floor windows would overlook his garden 90% as much as the new dormer.

People have to be able to extend their properties, and to add undue costs to this process is a waste of time imo.

ThisRegard

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Not iff the proximity fails the planning requirements, very often missed,

So there is a distance requirement like I initially thought, it's with regard to opposing first floor windows and garden space remaining

A minimum standard of 22 metres separation between directly opposing rear first floor windows shall be observed, normally resulting in a minimum rear garden depth of 11 metres. However, where sufficient alternative private open space (e.g. to the side) is available, this may be reduced - subject to the maintenance of privacy and protection of adjoining residential amenities

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/draft-fingal-development-plan-2017-–-2023-stage-2/chapter/chapter-12-development

mrcheez

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I have seen this on boards a few times now.

Here's a question for everyone.

This maybe a silly question but surely if you live in a housing estate, terraced, semi-detached house etc...

Cant you see into lots of gardens from your bedroom/back windows??

I've never been in a house where you could not see the next doors garden and even the gardens beyond that? Have people got walls 100ft high?

What difference would another window make when there could be 2, 3 or 4 already there?

I have a good relationship with the neighbour directly behind me (the one I referred to in this thread is next door to him, but I never needed to interact with them since they weren't visible from my garden).

He has large trees that grow over into mine and I trim them back, as is my right.

But before I do that, I go out of my way to contact him (usually give a holler over the back wall) and consult with him about what I'm going to do and how much I'm going to cut away.

The reason I do this is because the trees act as a privacy barrier for that neighbour so he wants to ensure that as much as possible of the privacy is maintained.

As such, if I was building an extension to my house that overlooked his trees and gave me unblocked view of the entirety of his garden, such that no single area is left private I would, at the very least, let him know that his tree barrier was now going to be completely ineffective.

This is essentially what has happened now to myself and my two neighbours, who had up till now relative privacy in their gardens, so would have thought, it would at least have been nice to take 10 minutes out to pop around and let us know (or perhaps shout over the wall).

I guess it's a matter of treat others as you would like them to treat you.

elperello

Good to see that you get along with your neighbour.

The other neighbour who installed the window most likely did all he was required to do re. notice ie. sign and paper and didn't mean to upset anyone.

If it's any consolation to you the other neighbour probably has little interest in looking at you in your garden.
You will find that it's mostly in good weather you will be out enjoying the garden and then the neighbour will also be outside not looking out the window.

mrcheez

elperello wrote: »

If it's any consolation to you the other neighbour probably has little interest in looking at you in your garden.
You will find that it's mostly in good weather you will be out enjoying the garden and then the neighbour will also be outside not looking out the window.

Well as I mentioned before, I'm not too arsed about whether the neighbour sees me. They can gawk all they like.

Just curious how my notoriously private neighbours will take it though

mikeoneilly

Isn't there a 'zapper' or some gadget you can plant in the garden to stop them looking out?

I'm sure i seen it advertised

hognef

kceire wrote: »

But in this case, it's not in any way, shape or form affecting the OP. If he had of known about it, what would he have done? Lodge an opbjection? It would not have stopped the development. The first floor windows would overlook his garden 90% as much as the new dormer.

Indeed he could have lodged an objection, if he felt his privacy would be sufficiently changed. I'm not arguing for or against an objection, though, I'm only saying he should have a right to be informed in case he'd like to object.

People have to be able to extend their properties, and to add undue costs to this process is a waste of time imo.

In fairness now, the time and cost spent on posting a handful of letters would be a drop in the ocean in comparison to all the other time and costs involved in any construction project.

I'd also argue that somebody's "need" to extend their property is of no greater importance than the neighbours' rights to undue impact (whatever that is) from said extension.

mrcheez

mikeoneilly wrote: »

Isn't there a 'zapper' or some gadget you can plant in the garden to stop them looking out?

I'm sure i seen it advertised

Does that blind them with light anytime they try to look out?

Or literally shoots them with a zapper gun?

Either are fine with me :pac:

JonathonS

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Not iff the proximity fails the planning requirements, very often missed, resulting in opaque glass being retro-ed on a retention application.

Happened to a friend - neighbour put in a dormer, and was retrospectively required to change to frosted glass.

Op, if frosted glass would help you deal with this then take the measurements and check with the council.

lawred2

JonathonS wrote: »

Happened to a friend - neighbour put in a dormer, and was retrospectively required to change to frosted glass.

Op, if frosted glass would help you deal with this then take the measurements and check with the council.

He'd have to decide whether it's worth ill tempering relations with the neighbours..

mrcheez

JonathonS wrote: »

Happened to a friend - neighbour put in a dormer, and was retrospectively required to change to frosted glass.

Op, if frosted glass would help you deal with this then take the measurements and check with the council.

lawred2 wrote: »

He'd have to decide whether it's worth ill tempering relations with the neighbours..

Pretty much. I'll have to wait and see if it becomes an issue first.

Gumbo

JonathonS wrote: »

Happened to a friend - neighbour put in a dormer, and was retrospectively required to change to frosted glass.

Op, if frosted glass would help you deal with this then take the measurements and check with the council.

mrcheez wrote: »

Pretty much. I'll have to wait and see if it becomes an issue first.

I don't think you will have a choice here.
Check the planning application.
Is there a condition that states it to be frosted glass?
If not then the other house has no obligation to put it up.

The 22m and 11m rule is a planning guideline and not a requirement. It's used to determine exempted developments also.

If the distance is less than 11m but the planning doesn't required frosted glass and the drawings didn't mention frosted glass then they don't have to do it.

mrcheez

So window has gone in... clear as day.

Now I've discovered they have also have a full overlook into my bedroom and can see me *cough* lying down with the gf if the blinds are up. Nice!

Time to invest in some of that mirror-reflective film for the bedroom, although it will mean less light getting into the room

Also means 0 privacy at night unless blinds are down as the film only works in daylight.

Masala

mrcheez wrote: »

So window has gone in... clear as day.

Now I've discovered they have also have a full overlook into my bedroom and can see me *cough* lying down with the gf if the blinds are up. Nice!

Time to invest in some of that mirror-reflective film for the bedroom, although it will mean less light getting into the room

Also means 0 privacy at night unless blinds are down as the film only works in daylight.

Often wondered if this happened to me if I would just walk around the room bollock naked.... that would just put them off looking over and seeing me. Tgat would force them to get glass sorted. If people want to look in my window - then don't be shocked by what u see!!!!

bobbyss

Harlow Dry Hitchhiker wrote:

Without going to the extreme likes poles with tarpaulin of course...

The poles and netting that are behind football goals would act as a solid screening device against overlooking windows when you want immediate privacy and can't wait for trees to grow. Would you need planning permission for that would you know?

freshpopcorn

I know my brother built an extension with large windows(Dermot Bannon style) It would allow all the neighbors to have a great view of what he was doing all the time. However they're hasn't been any issues with privacy. The neighbour who's going to peering and nosing on you will nose on you any way. No matter what size your windows are.

mrcheez

bobbyss wrote: »

The poles and netting that are behind football goals would act as a solid screening device against overlooking windows when you want immediate privacy and can't wait for trees to grow. Would you need planning permission for that would you know?

Nah...though it would only help in the garden, not upstairs where the bedroom window is visible . at this point the line of sight is over the neighbours garden so no matter what I put in my own garden won't prevent viewing there.

Anyway I'm just gonna get some of that 3M reflective material to put on the bedroom window.

mrcheez

Just following up on this...

I was just curious if there was any wording in the application for the extension at the back that specified anything about the window materials to be used.

The Dublin City Council planning application website is pretty hard to follow, but I spotted under the "Decision" list of conditions section one of the conditions is titled "3. Amendments to be agreed in writing (Note specific insert required) (compliance necessary)"

In there they have:

c. The rear dormer window shall be permanently fitted with opaque glazing to a level of 1.8 metres.

I take it what they have done (put clear glass in with full view of me lying in bed) isn't exactly by the books then?

freshpopcorn

OP, If your neigbhours want to spy on you they'll do it with or without a big window!

mrcheez

freshpopcorn wrote: »

OP, If your neigbhours want to spy on you they'll do it with or without a big window!

Makes it a lot harder for them to do it if it's opaque tbh