Emigrating & leaving property empty. How best to secure property?

knipex

knipex wrote: »

Its true. I moved for a couple of years and rented.. cost me a fortune and damaged my relationship with the neighbor.

If I had my time again I would leave it empty.

As I said, something is seriously wrong then.

I started writing a paragraph on everything wrong with property in Dublin and then realized no-one wants to read it.

To the original poster, in the current property crisis, where rents are sky high, experienced professionals are moving in with their Ma to save for deposits,I'm genuinely surprised you don't have a friend or relative who would love free housing for 2 years.

They pay you no rent, you get charged no tax, if the washing machine breaks down they buy a new one. Surely everyone is happy? I'd kill to be in the position of being offered a deal like this.

Where in Dublin is it?

seamus

One thing to think about is giving a neighbour access to use the house. That's if you trust them of course.

As a terraced house, the only person who comes close to caring about what happens to your house is the neighbour who is attached to it. Come to an agreement with them that they have the right, for example, to use your gardens, store stuff in your shed/house, let family members stay over in the bedrooms, etc, in exchange for ensuring that the house is looked after.

But obviously the agreement is not that they can rent it out or otherwise let anyone stay in it long term. You would need to trust your neighbour. Give a family member a second key to check on it from time to time.

That could satisfy your insurance's obligation that the house is occupied.

evolving_doors

Could you do a house swop with someone in the location you are going to... long shot ! But at least both have a mutual interest!

Viscount Aggro

We had a trusted neighbour checking on our house for a couple of weeks, while we were abroad.
She fell in the back yard and broke her shoulder. I suspect she was p***ed. It went legal and lasted 2 years, legal bills were massive in the end.

frozenfrozen

I'll move in

ParkRunner

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said, something is seriously wrong then.

I started writing a paragraph on everything wrong with property in Dublin and then realized no-one wants to read it.

To the original poster, in the current property crisis, where rents are sky high, experienced professionals are moving in with their Ma to save for deposits,I'm genuinely surprised you don't have a friend or relative who would love free housing for 2 years.

They pay you no rent, you get charged no tax, if the washing machine breaks down they buy a new one. Surely everyone is happy? I'd kill to be in the position of being offered a deal like this.

Where in Dublin is it?

I've no one I know jumping at the prospect of doing the caretaker role anyway, it doesn't suit many people due to work, pets, their own properties or their own commitments/interests. I would happily let a family member/friend live in the house and cover bills but it doesn't seem to suit anyone. The house is in north county Dublin on the train line.

seamus wrote: »

One thing to think about is giving a neighbour access to use the house. That's if you trust them of course.

As a terraced house, the only person who comes close to caring about what happens to your house is the neighbour who is attached to it. Come to an agreement with them that they have the right, for example, to use your gardens, store stuff in your shed/house, let family members stay over in the bedrooms, etc, in exchange for ensuring that the house is looked after.

But obviously the agreement is not that they can rent it out or otherwise let anyone stay in it long term. You would need to trust your neighbour. Give a family member a second key to check on it from time to time.

That could satisfy your insurance's obligation that the house is occupied.

Yes the next door neighbour on one side we get on with quite well and thankfully they are happy to keep an eye on the place & will have a key. They will also have the benefit of having a quiet life. Previous tenants were not always good or reasonable neighbours.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Could you do a house swop with someone in the location you are going to... long shot ! But at least both have a mutual interest!

My rent abroad will be paid for anyway so probably no need for me to sign up for for something like that..

In relation to the loss of rental income, my time will be quite valuable over the next 2 years getting the most out of living abroad and having small children so managing a potentially car crash rental is not something I'll need

frozenfrozen

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I'll move in

I was here first :pac:

smunchkins

Deleted User wrote: »

I was here first :pac:

Actually *I* volunteered first! (And I don't have the baggage of having to get out from another tenancy, plus I've years of experience in property management)

We need either a Big Brother style vote off as to who gets it, (or maybe all move in together?!) or perhaps some Battle Royale style fight :cool:

ParkRunner

ParkRunner wrote: »

I've no one I know jumping at the prospect of doing the caretaker role anyway, it doesn't suit many people due to work, pets, their own properties or their own commitments/interests. I would happily let a family member/friend live in the house and cover bills but it doesn't seem to suit anyone. The house is in north county Dublin on the train line.



Yes the next door neighbour on one side we get on with quite well and thankfully they are happy to keep an eye on the place & will have a key. They will also have the benefit of having a quiet life. Previous tenants were not always good or reasonable neighbours.



My rent abroad will be paid for anyway so probably no need for me to sign up for for something like that..

In relation to the loss of rental income, my time will be quite valuable over the next 2 years getting the most out of living abroad and having small children so managing a potentially car crash rental is not something I'll need

it sounds like the only way to go is do a deal with your neighbour. It needs to be a little more than "keep an eye on the place", it should look lived in for the 2 years you are gone. I'd recommend low energy lights on timers to come on around 6pm and off around 10pm, to indicate that to anyone watching, there is someone there.

ParkRunner

smunchkins wrote: »

Actually *I* volunteered first! (And I don't have the baggage of having to get out from another tenancy, plus I've years of experience in property management)

We need either a Big Brother style vote off as to who gets it, (or maybe all move in together?!) or perhaps some Battle Royale style fight :cool:

Sounds like a great idea

I understand those who are saying I'm mad not to rent it out, but having rented it out before to three different tenants (one of which was through an agent) I'm done with that all that business.

bucketybuck

I wish I knew the OP in real life.

Varik

737max wrote: »

It isn't even 20%.

You pay your income in your country of residence.
If you are going to a low tax country it is less. If you are going to a higher tax country you pay more.

In Ireland you just need to appoint a rent receiver otherwise the tenant is obliged to deduct 20% for Tax.

I emigrated and sold up as I didn't consider the house as somewhere I'd be coming back to. If I was coming back to Ireland I'd need to be coming back to something "better".

Also, I had plenty of expensive furnishing and fittings which I knew a tenant would not care for so didn't want to rent on that ground either.

If you are in a low tax country I recommend you consider renting as it is probably financially beneficial to you and it is a shame to leave a habitable building vacant.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html

Landlords living abroad

If your landlord lives outside Ireland and you pay your rent through an agent, you do not have to deduct tax from the rent. The landlord’s collection agent must account for the tax in an annual tax return.

However, if you pay the rent directly to the landlord (including into their bank account, whether in Ireland or abroad), you must deduct tax at the standard rate (20% at present) from the gross amount that you pay. This deduction is not your tax relief - it is tax payable to Revenue from your landlord's income.

For example, your landlord lives in Germany and you pay him/her gross rent per month of €1,000. First, work out the amount of tax to be deducted (€1,000 x 20% = €200). Now deduct the tax due from the gross rent you pay (€1,000 - €200 = €800). The net rent to be paid to your landlord is €800 per month. The amount due to Revenue is the €200 per month that you deducted from the gross rent of €1,000.

Accounting to Revenue for tax deducted from rent

You must account to Revenue for the tax that you deduct from the gross rent. If you fail to deduct tax from rent that you pay directly to a landlord living outside Ireland, this will mean that you (and not the landlord) will be liable for any tax that should have been deducted.

If you pay tax under PAYE, you can account for it by reducing your tax credits and Standard Rate Cut-Off Point. You can notify your local Revenue Office and ask them to arrange this. Alternatively, you can make a tax return - Form 12 (pdf) and pay the retained amount to Revenue.

If you pay tax under self-assessment, you should include the details of your rent on your annual return - Form 11 (pdf). A notice of assessment will then issue to you, showing the reduced credit.

At the end of the year you must give your landlord a completed Certificate of Income Tax Deducted - Form R185 (pdf).

Scraggs

ParkRunner wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea

I understand those who are saying I'm mad not to rent it out, but having rented it out before to three different tenants (one of which was through an agent) I'm done with that all that business.

I don't think you're mad ...if I was in your position I wouldn't rent it out either. I would ask neighbours to keep an eye and you could always install those discreet cctv cameras that you can view from your phone/laptop for extra peace of mind! I'd get your post diverted and make sure the letterbox is fixed closed. Also make any entrances like side gates etc. are fully secure. Get good net curtains for the windows and glass doors so an opportunist that may have a nose in through the window can't see too much!

seamus

ParkRunner wrote: »

I understand those who are saying I'm mad not to rent it out, but having rented it out before to three different tenants (one of which was through an agent) I'm done with that all that business.

I do imagine there's a tendency on behalf of some tenants to take more liberties with a property when they know the landlord is non-resident.

Having a family member manage the rental is a good way to see this off, but it's a big ask, even if you're giving them a cut of the rent.

So, no, I don't think you're mad. But with the market the way it is, I would be inclined to think about selling up and keeping the cash to fund a purchase when you return.

listermint

The long and short of it is OP you are throwing money away here.

You said you bought the property with the ultimate goal to sell it.

If you put your business hat on for a minute here you would realise what your are doing is tantamount to Ryanair buying a plane and not flying it all the time because they have to clean it after each flight.

If you come to your senses and be super selective about tenants i.e background check and contact their workplace references you will mitigate the problems you may have.

But it's as clear as day that you are burning money here and if you had a business hat on then you would see that.

Call me Al

Check your house insurance policy. What is vacancy defined as? Can you have someone stay over 2 or 3 night's a month to keep the place inhabited if that is what the T&Cs require?

You need to keep lights on timers.Have you looked at home automation? Friends who have a holiday home use motion sensor cctv to watch for activity around the house. Take a look at the Internet of Things forum on here for some discussions. Is your home alarmed? What window dressings do you have? When we were abroad 10 years ago I used sheer voiles downstairs for security.
Personally i don't blame you for not renting out your home. We didn't and I won't if we go again. I'd much prefer to have a friend house-sit but i wouldnt allow strangers in.

ParkRunner

seamus wrote: »

I do imagine there's a tendency on behalf of some tenants to take more liberties with a property when they know the landlord is non-resident.

Having a family member manage the rental is a good way to see this off, but it's a big ask, even if you're giving them a cut of the rent.

So, no, I don't think you're mad. But with the market the way it is, I would be inclined to think about selling up and keeping the cash to fund a purchase when you return.

It's an affordable house so still has clawback restrictions attached on selling & the mortgage is small, otherwise I would strongly consider selling, although it would leave me looking for a house in 2 years.

listermint wrote: »

The long and short of it is OP you are throwing money away here.

You said you bought the property with the ultimate goal to sell it.

If you put your business hat on for a minute here you would realise what your are doing is tantamount to Ryanair buying a playing and not flying it all the time because they have to clean it after each flight.

If you come to your senses and be super selective about tenants i.e background check and contact their workplace references you will mitigate the problems you may have.

But it's as clear as day that you are burning money here and if you had a business hat on then you would see that.

I bought it as a single man with the intention of living there, but now have family so will have to upsize eventually.

Post tenancy costs usually consist of more than cleaning from my experience anyway - new mattresses, painting, repairs, sometimes flooring etc. Despite tenancy agreements, I've had different tenants paint the house their own colours, change the flooring, fix mirror tiles to the walls, have pets which damaged doors & fences, decide to up and go after a few weeks (as is their right), damage kitchen tiles and presses, cause water damage, steal furniture, put up wallpaper and generally be a nuisance to neighours. None of the damage on its own was huge but in total it was a big headache to fix. An established property agent I had managing a tenancy didn't do their job and I won a case against them.

I will make a lot more money abroad so will be happy to take a hit on leaving the property empty.

Hope to get solid gates and CCTV in soon and our neigbour is home all day

carolmon

I'd go the caretaker option...people who avail of these services tend to look after the properties well
Camelot has been mentioned before ....here's the link

https://ie.cameloteurope.com/

There's also housesitting services, I'm registering to avail of housesitting options abroad as a cheap holiday, again people tend to look after properties very well and there's online reviews and recommendations for housesitters

https://www.trustedhousesitters.com/ie/

The other option is to let rooms only and keep the house as your main residence when in Ireland, somewhere to stay on trips home and easy to move people on if they don't look after your property.

bucketybuck

ParkRunner wrote: »

An established property agent I had managing a tenancy didn't do their job and I won a case against them.

Although you may have had a bad experience, is there anything to be said for finding the most highly rated agent out there and using them? Even if their rates are higher you could still end up with more income than doing nothing, as well as having a house that isn't sitting vacant?

minikin

Hi ParkRunner,

Have you considered getting a cleaner in once a week, they could air the place, turn on heating for an hour, run the water, generally be a set of eyes and a sign of life around the place.