Ireland vs UK quality of life

lufties

Hey all, just wanted some opinions on the above topic. I guess it's all subjective. Anyway, I've just moved back to Ireland in Jan after 3 years in London. For various reasons I left London, poor pay, high rent etc.

I've been offered work back in England (not London), and am thinking of moving back, as the T&c's are good. Since I moved back to Ireland, I've had two jobs, both sucked. I would argue that life is a bit better in England, as I hate the Irish attitude to work, basically work your hole off and be glad of it. It's great to be around family and friends but my gut tells me England is a bit more rewarding if you are a middle income earner. Granted this is a fine margin. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

Danye

lufties wrote: »

Hey all, just wanted some opinions on the above topic. I guess it's all subjective. Anyway, I've just moved back to Ireland in Jan after 3 years in London. For various reasons I left London, poor pay, high rent etc.

I've been offered work back in England (not London), and am thinking of moving back, as the T&c's are good. Since I moved back to Ireland, I've had two jobs, both sucked. I would argue that life is a bit better in England, as I hate the Irish attitude to work, basically work your hole off and be glad of it. It's great to be around family and friends but my gut tells me England is a bit more rewarding if you are a middle income earner. Granted this is a fine margin. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

I've never worked in the U.K. although I've been offered work over there very recently. What I would say is, go with your gut. It already sounds like you know the correct answer. Your just looking for somebody to validate it for you.

lufties

Danye wrote: »

I've never worked in the U.K. although I've been offered work over there very recently. What I would say is, go with your gut. It already sounds like you know the correct answer. Your just looking for somebody to validate it for you.

Hi Danye, yeah I guess I am looking for someone to validate it. Having trawled through some old threads, most people say Ireland is better. People say Ireland is more laid back, perhaps it is compared to working in London, but jobs I've had here in Ireland in recent months, have paid peanuts and expect you to live and breathe the job. Its an attitude, the English know its just 'a job', whereas in Ireland it seems to be a vocation that you define your whole self with.

recipio

Being happy in life is a complex subject. I would say that most people need a few basic things - a mortgage, a car, a good health service, an honest police force and an efficient civil service. All of these are taken for granted in the UK but we struggle with being the third most expensive country in the EU and with poor services.All of this despite relatively high taxes but of course we have plenty of wastrel politicians to spend it. ( Irish water anyone ? )
I also think the British have a better community spirit with festivals in virtually town and many of its laws are more liberal than here.If the State doesn't like something here it tends to ban it outright. Lastly , you can retire a year earlier in UK at 65 but that is set to change.
If you can live away from the criminally expensive London area I think you will be healthier and wealthier if you make a life in the UK.

zweton

lufties wrote: »

Hey all, just wanted some opinions on the above topic. I guess it's all subjective. Anyway, I've just moved back to Ireland in Jan after 3 years in London. For various reasons I left London, poor pay, high rent etc.

I've been offered work back in England (not London), and am thinking of moving back, as the T&c's are good. Since I moved back to Ireland, I've had two jobs, both sucked. I would argue that life is a bit better in England, as I hate the Irish attitude to work, basically work your hole off and be glad of it. It's great to be around family and friends but my gut tells me England is a bit more rewarding if you are a middle income earner. Granted this is a fine margin. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

what part?

lufties

zweton wrote: »

what part?

near gatwick

Wompa1

Only worked in the UK at customer sites or on projects with English counterparts. I actually prefer the Irish work environment BUT I have never worked in Dublin. Working in Galway was great fun. The Brits and Americans are very difficult to deal with when it comes to business, imo. If you'd be happier in England, I'd go for it. If you'll be miserable but would prefer the work, I'd say give it a miss. There's more to life than work. Also, if you're in Dublin have you considered trying somewhere other than Dublin?

fits

If it's Crawley. It's not my favourite place in the world but very easy to get to London or Brighton. Crawley itself is very meh though.

lufties

Wompa1 wrote: »

Only worked in the UK at customer sites or on projects with English counterparts. I actually prefer the Irish work environment BUT I have never worked in Dublin. Working in Galway was great fun. The Brits and Americans are very difficult to deal with when it comes to business, imo. If you'd be happier in England, I'd go for it. If you'll be miserable but would prefer the work, I'd say give it a miss. There's more to life than work. Also, if you're in Dublin have you considered trying somewhere other than Dublin?

Hey, thanks for the reply. I've recently been offered an interview for a position in Leeds. The salary and perks are really good, in Ireland nothing compares as in my industry the pay is peanuts here. I'm currently working in County clare and it is bleak. My gut tells me that career wise a UK move is the best decision, as its a short hop from Ireland and you can actually earn and maybe even own my own house. Staying here just equates to wage slavery it seems. As much as I know work isn't everything, if working in a town like Shannon depresses you then there's no point in staying, as you spend most of your time at work.
Dublin would be an option if rent and salaries were reasonable, but they're not.
Having been away from Ireland for 8 years and recently returned, I can say we get shafted here. Tax is high, salaries are poor to mediocre. Then you've car insurance, health etc. From a spiritual point of view, I love being close to my family, but I guess I need to find a happy medium. Sorry if that sounded like a rant, it wasn't meant as such.

lufties

zweton wrote: »

what part?

There are two jobs on the table, one in Gatwick, one in Leeds.

Chuchote

lufties wrote: »

I've recently been offered an interview for a position in Leeds. The salary and perks are really good, in Ireland nothing compares as in my industry the pay is peanuts here. I'm currently working in County clare and it is bleak.

Friends who live there tell me Leeds is really lovely, and surrounded by nice countryside; laid-back, kind people.

And it's not just the wage - because Britain has higher tax and better social supports, you get a great medical service and all kinds of things that peasants like us pay through the nose for, for free there. For instance, you can study and get qualifications for free or cheap while working there.

If you get homesick, you've got a chance to come back with better qualifications and a nice CV.

lufties

Chuchote wrote: »

Friends who live there tell me Leeds is really lovely, and surrounded by nice countryside; laid-back, kind people.

And it's not just the wage - because Britain has higher tax and better social supports, you get a great medical service and all kinds of things that peasants like us pay through the nose for, for free there. For instance, you can study and get qualifications for free or cheap while working there.

If you get homesick, you've got a chance to come back with better qualifications and a nice CV.

Thanks a mill chuchote, yeah its early days yet as I'm only heading over for an interview next week. The job role is where I want to be going career wise. The options are, struggle in Ireland financially and be around family, or get good pay and conditions in England.

Sosurface

Am looking in the same direction myself. Even from scanning jobs on indeed, the perks and benefits for professional roles in the UK are light years ahead. Horrible working culture here. Bare minimum 20 days holidays by most companies. 39 hour week but your break is unpaid so you actually spend 42.5 hours there and thats before any "expected" OT. Wages only the bare minimum they can get away with paying and personally no hope of buying a property without absolutely stretching living standards to the last. All little sneaky measures that have been tacked in in the last few years. Ireland only works if you know the right people. You'd be driven mad sticking it out here.

Chuchote

Well, even if you're going temporarily and will bring your new skills back to your country later, it's worth travelling to get work, experience and a broader (hopefully) worldview.

And it's really easy to study languages in Britain compared to here; you could jazz up your French and German and get work on the Conty-nong for a bit too.

(Met a guy recently who was on the dole; he was 60 and wasn't aware that as he'd built up stamps while working in Britain for around 30 years he could probably get at least part of his pension entitlement now. Sent him off to consult Social Welfare about how to find his UK records; he was a happy camper!)

lufties

Sosurface wrote: »

Am looking in the same direction myself. Even from scanning jobs on indeed, the perks and benefits for professional roles in the UK are light years ahead. Horrible working culture here. Bare minimum 20 days holidays by most companies. 39 hour week but your break is unpaid so you actually spend 42.5 hours there and thats before any "expected" OT. Wages only the bare minimum they can get away with paying and personally no hope of buying a property without absolutely stretching living standards to the last. All little sneaky measures that have been tacked in in the last few years. Ireland only works if you know the right people. You'd be driven mad sticking it out here.

Yeah, I left 8 years ago for a reason, a reason that got covered with rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of being at home is great, the security it brings to know your folks or siblings are less than a 2 hr drive away.

Jesus though, the work conditions I've seen since coming back really suck, basically a wage slave until retirement if you even get there.One job offered 43k pa, No pension given, and expected to be on call every second week. This is in engineering which I've over 15 yrs experience. I know of one company where employees were bullied into voting out a good pension, and its expected to work two weekends a month ffs, we've only ourselves to blame. Although if you've kids to support there ain't too many choices, these companies know this only too well
Perhaps its just the industry I'm in, but I can hazard a guess its similar across the board bar politics, finance, and maybe broadcasting(rte). Its sad to say that working for paddy is worse than working for the English.

Chuchote

lufties wrote: »

Yeah, I left 8 years ago for a reason, a reason that got covered with rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of being at home is great, the security it brings to know your folks or siblings are less than a 2 hr drive away.

Jesus though, the work conditions I've seen since coming back really suck, basically a wage slave until retirement if you even get there.One job offered 43k pa, No pension given, and expected to be on call every second week. This is in engineering which I've over 15 yrs experience.
Perhaps its just the industry I'm in, but I can hazard a guess its similar across the board bar politics, finance, and maybe broadcasting(rte).

As long as people are leaving the country out of frustration at the inequality and the slavery it brings in its train, it's not going to get better.

All it needs is for a few decent employers to start up, and talk about the conditions of their workforce, and good conditions will start to be normal practice again. (Not to mention that we need unions who will negotiate good terms, rather than greedy gobblers of union officials who are out for themselves - all trade union officials should be paid, pensioned and mileaged, etc, at the same rate as the senior workers their union represents!)

lufties

Chuchote wrote: »

As long as people are leaving the country out of frustration at the inequality and the slavery it brings in its train, it's not going to get better.

All it needs is for a few decent employers to start up, and talk about the conditions of their workforce, and good conditions will start to be normal practice again. (Not to mention that we need unions who will negotiate good terms, rather than greedy gobblers of union officials who are out for themselves - all trade union officials should be paid, pensioned and mileaged, etc, at the same rate as the senior workers their union represents!)

That is true, the recession was a great opportunity for exploitation. I'd say unions have had their day, and are basically useless if there isn't high profile companies in the spotlight (Bus eireann). The problem is that the powers that be facilitate all this. I am honestly shocked to see how bad things are gone here in this regard, not even sure why I thought they might have improved. 'keep the recovery going', yeah with jobs that pay peanuts. If you slog away in university and gain a certain amount of experience, you should be rewarded as such. Its hard to know which is sadder, the politicians facilitating greed, or the apathy of the public.

Sosurface

lufties wrote: »

Yeah, I left 8 years ago for a reason, a reason that got covered with rose tinted glasses. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of being at home is great, the security it brings to know your folks or siblings are less than a 2 hr drive away.

Jesus though, the work conditions I've seen since coming back really suck, basically a wage slave until retirement if you even get there.One job offered 43k pa, No pension given, and expected to be on call every second week. This is in engineering which I've over 15 yrs experience. I know of one company where employees were bullied into voting out a good pension, and its expected to work two weekends a month ffs, we've only ourselves to blame. Although if you've kids to support there ain't too many choices, these companies know this only too well
Perhaps its just the industry I'm in, but I can hazard a guess its similar across the board bar politics, finance, and maybe broadcasting(rte). Its sad to say that working for paddy is worse than working for the English.

Working for the Americans/Europeans is even the best you can do in Ireland and thats a sorry state of affairs. No-one looks after their employees less well than Irish employers. At the very least, and Im being generous here: they're wildly out of touch with what their employees actually want/need. I suspect its worse though aand as with much of Irish society they just push to get away with as much as is possible within the "rules". Most of the "concessions" you get (holidays/breaks etc) you'll find are exactly in line with minimum amounts required by EU law.

lufties

Sosurface wrote: »

Working for the Americans/Europeans is even the best you can do in Ireland and thats a sorry state of affairs. No-one looks after their employees less well than Irish employers. At the very least, and Im being generous here: they're wildly out of touch with what their employees actually want/need. I suspect its worse though aand as with much of Irish society they just push to get away with as much as is possible within the "rules". Most of the "concessions" you get (holidays/breaks etc) you'll find are exactly in line with minimum amounts required by EU law.

Interestingly, I was recently doing some contract work at a facility in Clare and the manager (an arrogant thicko), openly said Irish people will not work for him because of the pace of work and how they treat their staff. He has to get people in from Russia and ukraine to work because he's such a knob. Also, to add the health and safety was attrocious.

Chuchote

In a local Lidl today and one guy on a cash desk (obviously feeling his importance as he had some authority) shouted at another because he made a mistake and opened a different new cash desk than he'd been told to. Both eastern European. Nasty feeling about it.

lemmno

Leeds is a great city, and hugely cheaper than London (and Gatwick!)

zweton

whats city is better, leeds or bristol? Are you living in leeds atm?

lemmno

zweton wrote: »

whats city is better, leeds or bristol? Are you living in leeds atm?

Never lived in Leeds but spent a lot of time there. It reminds me of an Irish city, laid back people. Can't comment on Bristol. Leeds just has a lot going for it imo.

zweton

yeah i have been reading good things about it myself.

lufties

lemmno wrote: »

Leeds is a great city, and hugely cheaper than London (and Gatwick!)

Yeah, I went for the interview, and moving there doesn't feel right. If I had mates there I might've.

amcalester

lufties wrote: »

There are two jobs on the table, one in Gatwick, one in Leeds.

Where abouts in Gatwick? If it's the business park I'd hate to work there. Seems like a miserable place.

CelticRambler

Some interesting comments above. I've just come back from a second short stint working (in the same place) in England. Between my first and second periods there, five people have handed in their notice citing either that the pay was rubbish or that the (expected) hours were too long and the rotas too chaotic and interfering with their quality of life.

I chose to work there (having been asked three times already over the years by a long-time friend) because I can work a 45-60hour week - and get paid for it - whereas here in France I'm limited to 35 hours paid plus 10 unpaid hours sitting around doing nothing while the natives have their two-hour lunchbreak. It helps that professional standards in my line of work are far higher in the UK too.

But that's it. Work, earn money, spend money, sleep. After only a few months back in the country, I can see that all the reasons I left it fourteen years ago are still as valid as ever, and even though there are two permanent opportunities open at the moment, there is absolutely no way I'd take either of them.

To put things in context, I've just driven 1000km to come back for my social life this weekend, and will do another 700km to go to work again on Monday (different job, different country!)

seachto7

Chuchote wrote: »

Well, even if you're going temporarily and will bring your new skills back to your country later, it's worth travelling to get work, experience and a broader (hopefully) worldview.

And it's really easy to study languages in Britain compared to here; you could jazz up your French and German and get work on the Conty-nong for a bit too.

(Met a guy recently who was on the dole; he was 60 and wasn't aware that as he'd built up stamps while working in Britain for around 30 years he could probably get at least part of his pension entitlement now. Sent him off to consult Social Welfare about how to find his UK records; he was a happy camper!)

It's not easy to study languages in Ireland? News to me....

seachto7

CelticRambler wrote: »

Some interesting comments above. I've just come back from a second short stint working (in the same place) in England. Between my first and second periods there, five people have handed in their notice citing either that the pay was rubbish or that the (expected) hours were too long and the rotas too chaotic and interfering with their quality of life.

I chose to work there (having been asked three times already over the years by a long-time friend) because I can work a 45-60hour week - and get paid for it - whereas here in France I'm limited to 35 hours paid plus 10 unpaid hours sitting around doing nothing while the natives have their two-hour lunchbreak. It helps that professional standards in my line of work are far higher in the UK too.

But that's it. Work, earn money, spend money, sleep. After only a few months back in the country, I can see that all the reasons I left it fourteen years ago are still as valid as ever, and even though there are two permanent opportunities open at the moment, there is absolutely no way I'd take either of them.

To put things in context, I've just driven 1000km to come back for my social life this weekend, and will do another 700km to go to work again on Monday (different job, different country!)

Uk or Ire or Fr?

DublinWriter

The M50 looks like a carpark at 7am and construction workers are back queuing three deep at garage deli counters for cappuccinos and breakfast rolls.

The Irish economy is predicated on a unplanned oscillating cycle of boom and bust. Right now it's boom time again.

The UK is one of the biggest economies in the world. Even pre-Brexit, it's not the sort of place where you get EU Politicians flying in telling the government to sack policemen if they want a bail-out.

CelticRambler

seachto7 wrote: »

Uk or Ire or Fr?

UK.

I've looked at moving back to Ireland on and off over the years too, and while I could make a decent life for myself there, I think I'd get fed up with fighting off the expectation that life is all about money and/or drink.