Politics Cafe....? Banpocalypse now.

Beasty

me_right_one wrote: »

Where is everybody posting now? Cos thats where I wanna go.

Reckon they've probably mostly got jobs now and have little time for all this social interaction....


:pac:

Yourself isit

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

People aren't discussing it, they're just wheeling out the same old tropes over and over again every time there is an incident. I've tried engaging before but it just leads to the same nonsense being spouted ad nauseam. It's the same posters trotting out the same Tommy Robinson talking points while moaning about accusations of racism that nobody has made.

Since Tommy Robinson is in fact a racist, have you not actually called people racist in the first part of that sentence (albeit indirectly), and then denied that people were being called racist in the second part?

Yourself isit

Beasty wrote: »

Reckon they've probably mostly got jobs now and have little time for all this social interaction....


:pac:

If boards were full of unemployed people the debates on welfare would be different. Also even if posters "grew up" that doesn't explain the decline because new younger posters should fill the gap.

(I'm not sure though that moderation is the only or most likely problem, it could be Facebook).

Kermit.de.frog

I have been banned on a few ocassions for simply disagreeing with a mod.

It only damages the forum at the end of the day. Word of mouth is one of the strongest marketing tools, it can also be the most damaging.

Lovely Bloke

That most recent Admin post confirms a good few things.

"radical islamist" is a verboten topic, as "terrorist" will do.

That is one of the problems with the moderation of the Caf.

Also this ubiquitous "Well the bleerin RA did it in the 80s and the Oirish were hated, now how does that make you feel". It's some guilt trip, typical of the apologists for radical islamic terrorism. Well, well, well other people did this, so stop singling out Radical Islamists. What?

There's a huge difference between the IRA and ISIS, Irish people making comparisons are either being purposely stupid, or just don't understand the difference. It doesn't bear explaining. And I'm no shinner either.

It's no surprise that the Admins posting in this thread just cannot see past their nose on this topic. They've been selected by a hierarchy that deemed right wing "thinking" to be "dangerous". I don't think any Admins have been appointed since then.

It's a feedback loop. That thinking at the very top ensures that the appointments below are of a certain mind. No, that's not entirely correct. It ensures that appointments are not of a certain mind. I firmly believe that there will never be an appointment of any mod, cmod or Admin who would be in any way of a "right wing" mindset.

riffmongous

Yourself isit wrote: »

If boards were full of unemployed people the debates on welfare would be different. Also even if posters "grew up" that doesn't explain the decline because new younger posters should fill the gap.

(I'm not sure though that moderation is the only or most likely problem, it could be Facebook).

I'd say most of the young Irish people are just on Facebook.. most of the current youth memes are absent from boards, e.g. the Pintman meme, pretty recent and pretty much exclusively Irish, on facebook a decent post there can rack up a few thousand likes and yet the term is almost unknown here on boards

Lovely Bloke

...and one for yourself

AlekSmart

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

That most recent Admin post confirms a good few things.

"radical islamist" is a verboten topic, as "terrorist" will do.

That is one of the problems with the moderation of the Caf.

Also this ubiquitous "Well the bleerin RA did it in the 80s and the Oirish were hated, now how does that make you feel". It's some guilt trip, typical of the apologists for radical islamic terrorism. Well, well, well other people did this, so stop singling out Radical Islamists. What?

There's a huge difference between the IRA and ISIS, Irish people making comparisons are either being purposely stupid, or just don't understand the difference. It doesn't bear explaining. And I'm no shinner either.

It's no surprise that the Admins posting in this thread just cannot see past their nose on this topic. They've been selected by a hierarchy that deemed right wing "thinking" to be "dangerous". I don't think any Admins have been appointed since then.

It's a feedback loop. That thinking at the very top ensures that the appointments below are of a certain mind. No, that's not entirely correct. It ensures that appointments are not of a certain mind. I firmly believe that there will never be an appointment of any mod, cmod or Admin who would be in any way of a "right wing" mindset.

It's not really a big concern of mine that mods "be of a certain mind".

Their political leanings are,to me irrelevant...or should be.

I am an ultimate Floating Voter,rarely deciding where my 1,2,3 goes until I pick up the Pencil at the booth.

However,what I do expect from a Moderating Team,is the recognition of reality,which in my particular Infraction case,is the relevance of a highly directive Belief Structure followed by the vast majority of prospective entrants to the E.U. under whatever schemes are proposed.

Commonsense,Reason and unavoidable Reality points to it being an integral part of the greater immigration discussion,yet every thread,in which the issue of Belief Structures incompatible with the very basics of our Western mores is raised will be swiftly modded so much as to make it ineffectual.

Robust questioning of Islam,or any such alien belief structure,does not make the questioner Racist,Phobic or otherwise Intolerant of the greater body of it's adherents....A point which appears lost on the moderating team.

me_right_one

AlekSmart wrote: »

Robust questioning of Islam,or any such alien belief structure,does not make the questioner Racist,Phobic or otherwise Intolerant of the greater body of it's adherents....A point which appears lost on the moderating team.

Same should apply to gay marriage, abortion etc. But dare you go against the lefty grain...:rolleyes:

B_Wayne

me_right_one wrote: »

Same should apply to gay marriage, abortion etc. But dare you go against the lefty grain...:rolleyes:

Remember the discussions on same sex marriage, those who were homophobic got bans. Basically the same rule applies to abortion discussions imho. Don't be a dick and won't be any problem from what I've seen...

Pintman Paddy Losty

riffmongous wrote: »

I'd say most of the young Irish people are just on Facebook.. most of the current youth memes are absent from boards, e.g. the Pintman meme, pretty recent and pretty much exclusively Irish, on facebook a decent post there can rack up a few thousand likes and yet the term is almost unknown here on boards

Had 30 pints and still agree with what you say.

_Kaiser_

B_Wayne wrote: »

Remember the discussions on same sex marriage, those who were homophobic got bans. Basically the same rule applies to abortion discussions imho. Don't be a dick and won't be any problem from what I've seen...

The SSM threads were an absolute disgrace IMO. Nevermind homophobia - anyone not proactively cheering for the cause was attacked, ridiculed and marginalised by a significant cadre of posters, and this was tolerated by the Mods because the issue became a social media Crusade more than anything else.

The same principle seems to apply to the immigration/refugee threads. Anyone not fully on-board with the notion that this is an unreservedly "good thing" has the entire array of SJW terminology and accusations thrown at them, and any questioning about how a completely alien and incompatible belief system will integrate with 21st century Western society is immediately shut down by the Mod team.

There should be no fear of (rationally and coherently) put questions and views/concerns on either - or any other! - issue. If indeed the idea is "good" then its advocates should surely be able to make their case without resorting to (or aided by) the above.

Ignoring that people have questions or concerns and shutting down debate on a DISCUSSION FORUM is beyond ridiculous and while we all go back and forth here, it's telling that the thread in question STILL remains closed incidentally!

hatrickpatrick

Taltos - just to be specific, this is the mod warning I take issue with regarding the immigration thread on the Cafe:

If you want to discuss the role of Islam as a faith in the Western World, go to World religions.

If you want to discuss how Islam is going to impose it's will and imprison all Western Women and force them to abide by Sharia law, go to conspiracy theories.

If you want to discuss overall immigration from outside the EU and the impact it is having, considering all of the nationalities, feel free to post here.

This is just moronic. The current migrant crisis involves predominantly Middle Eastern and African countries which are majority Islam and have elements of Islamic law in the law of the land, much as Ireland has elements of Catholic doctrine in the law of the land. To suggest that there's no place on a politics forum to discuss specifically this issue without diluting it is absolutely ridiculous. To suggest that the role of Islam in the Western world is not a political issue is ridiculous. To suggest that discussion of whether mass immigration from such countries could lead to social movements in favour of hardline doctrines such as sharia etc is not relevant to a politics forum and is a mere conspiracy theory, is as insulting to right wing posters as tropes such as "SF/IRA", "magic money tree" and "looney left" are to left wing posters like myself - these have been rightly banned on the Cafe, but now we have a mod essentially dismissing right wing beliefs as conspiracy nuts in a similar fashion.

I'm a far left poster, the fact that I'm posting here in defence of the right's allegations of ideological moderation and bias should speak for itself. Unless Boards wants to openly state that opinions further right than an arbritrary set point are unwelcome (while similarly far left views are clearly not), this needs to end. And if Boards does make such an official announcement, in my view, prepare to see a haemorrhage of users like never before.

This kicked off a year or two ago and after a thread very similar to this one, Boards actually did briefly get its act together in this regard - it seems that over time though, the results of those discussions have been forgotten about.

Pelvis Parsley

You seem to me to be that most commendable and rarest of things, an *actual* liberal, in the proper sense of the word. Someone who champions the right to an opinion, regardless of whether they agree or not.

While my political leanings are quite different to your own, I'd like to think I do likewise, I thank you for stepping up, and it's an awful pity that others can't do the same.

What's worse is the element of groupthink that pervades this place, and others like it, where people think they're being open, tolerant, and even handed, when they are precisely the opposite. I remember one former employee here, who laughably said he wasn't left wing, and meant it. That level of myopia benefits no one, least of all the site and its userbase.

me_right_one

Would anyone be interested in starting a different discussion forum? Something to rival boards? It wouldnt be difficult, and to be honest, this place is never going to change. If there was enough support, I'd seriously consider giving it a shot. "Thank" if you're interested

Winterlong

me_right_one wrote: »

Would anyone be interested in starting a different discussion forum? Something to rival boards? It wouldnt be difficult, and to be honest, this place is never going to change. If there was enough support, I'd seriously consider giving it a shot. "Thank" if you're interested

It would just end up like the thunderdome!

me_right_one

Winterlong wrote: »

It would just end up like the thunderdome!

Would it though? If sensible modding was applied, instead of the left-think authoritarianism we have here, I think it would be very successful. The people leaving this place in droves speaks for itself.

Alf Stewart.

I've had several posts deleted on me in the PC yesterday.

My posts were discussing how a minister had aided Denis O'Brien in being awarded a state contract (esat),

Mr Lowry proceeded to bypass consideration by his Cabinet colleagues and thereby not only influenced, but delivered the result that Esat Digifone had won the evaluation process - which ultimately led to the licensing award.

and how years later, (when FG are back in govt) he (O'Brien) purchased an effectively bankrupted company, that was given a tax payer funded haircut in the process.


O'Brien then went on to win another significant state contract with said company.

The three Regional Managment Contractors are

1 Murphy Group

2. Coffey Northumbrian Ltd ( A partnership between Coffey Group and Nothumbrian Water. British company Northumbrian Water is owned by Cheung Kong Infrastructure, a company backed by the Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing – who also owns 3 Ireland.)

3. GMC / Sierra – a joint venture between GMC Utilities and Sierra.
Sierra is part of Siteserv – which was recently bought by a company linked to billionaire Denis O’Brien. There was some controversy about the purchase because it involved the write off of large debts to Anglo Irish Bank – read more about that here .

All common knowledge. Yet my posts were deleted. No pm from anyone to discuss who deleted them, or why they were deleted.

Poor form if you ask me.

Listowel Man

good night and good luck is a movie i watch every now and again

its about the power of healthy debate

how important it is for people to speak up

ThisRegard

The biggest problem with any type of immigration/refugee thread (and I stay well away from them these days as they're the online equivalent of the plague, you'll rarely see the more insightful political posters anywhere near them) is that everything is so binary with them.

They'll always start as a train wreck because nobody acknowledges the middle ground, or rarely facts.

_Kaiser_

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

I've had several posts deleted on me in the PC yesterday.

My posts were discussing how a minister had aided Denis O'Brien in being awarded a state contract (esat),


and how years later, (when FG are back in govt) he (O'Brien) purchased an effectively bankrupted company, that was given a tax payer funded haircut in the process.


O'Brien then went on to win another significant state contract with said company.




All common knowledge. Yet my posts were deleted. No pm from anyone to discuss who deleted them, or why they were deleted.

Poor form if you ask me.

It's clear to me that bias in the Cafe isn't just limited to Immigration threads.

For example, there's a poster I can think of who does little else but stir in anti-FG threads yet his "contributions" remain unremarked while those who call them out for what they are are quickly sanctioned.

Politics is by its very nature divisive and often heated, but good moderation should be as impartial and even-handed where necessary - yet that's clearly not the case here.

I think, as others have touched on, the problem goes back to the criteria by which mods and indeed moderation policy are/is chosen. You can't really blame specific mods for actions that the higher-ups/site as a whole condone and indeed encourage on certain "controversial" topics.

But the users aren't idiots and can see it for what it is, and that's not only why this (latest I might add!) thread on the issues exists, but why the userbase continues to decline year on year as people get fed up with it.

Alf Stewart.

And I have now received an infraction for calling out their Bullshìt.

Claiming i am arguing moderation, when i did no such thing, in actual fact, i edited my post specifically to make sure i wasn't arguing with the moderation.

Im calling it out as Bullshìt here and now, it's like giving an idiot a high vis vest, and him thinking he's master of the bloody universe.

Fcuking joke shop.

Lovely Bloke

link? although you are going to get sanctioned here and get told to go to the DRP

_Kaiser_

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

And I have now received an infraction cor calling out their Bullshìt.

Claiming i am arguing moderation, when i did no such thing, in actual fact, i edited my post specifically to make sure i wasn't arguing with the moderation.

Im calling it out as Bullshìt here and now, it's like giving an idiot a high vis vest, and him thinking he's master of the bloody universe.

Fcuking joke shop.

Got a warning myself for "backseat moderation" when I did no such thing, but again from one of the two mods being predominantly referred to in this thread.

Lovely Bloke

just saw it now.

It's very telling that the mod can be on hand to dish out multiple cards on that thread this morning, but not bother to even comment here.

Feedback is beneath this heirarchy, negative feedback especially so.

Wrap it up lads, it's done.

Alf Stewart.

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

just saw it now.

It's very telling that the mod can be on hand to dish out multiple cards on that thread this morning, but not bother to even comment here.

Feedback is beneath this heirarchy, negative feedback especially so.

Wrap it up lads, it's done.

I have actually replied to the pm requesting that they clarify their actions on feedback.

On that note, I would also like to point out, on the Paul Murphy thread, a poster made a comment about Murphy and engaging "holding someone against their will"

I duly responded that he wasn't the only TD to engage in such actions, and mentioned Sean Conlan.

Soon after I got the (in bold writing) "stop trying to drag thread off topic"

On the Enda Kenny thread, we were discussing the fact that Mrs Kenny's flights cost the tax payer €3600.

"How much did Gerry Adams and his Sinn Fein lads trip to America cost?" Was the comparison.

Made by a mod.

FFs lads.

Alf Stewart.

And now I have been banned for a week.

Wibbs

That forum is becoming a clusterfúck. Again. With some dubious "moderation" of late to boot, with deleted posts for no good reason, posts that apparently cited links to back up the poster and on topic? What the hell?

On another feed back thread here I gave my take as "TBH I'd also get rid of PC entirely. It's the bastard child of AH and politics and did no favours for either. Politics became a ghost town, AH lost conversations suited to there and PC became such a clusterfcuk it needed to be shut down and it remains a high PITA forum for both users and mods".

Potkettle

The level and similarity of complaint would arouse interest purely on a statistical level if nothing else. I believe it was the former boss of Aer Lingus who said you can never turn around a situation by relying on the team that got you there in the first place.

Alf Stewart.

Wibbs wrote: »

That forum is becoming a clusterfúck. Again. With some dubious "moderation" of late to boot, with deleted posts for no good reason, posts that apparently cited links to back up the poster and on topic? What the hell?

On another feed back thread here I gave my take as "TBH I'd also get rid of PC entirely. It's the bastard child of AH and politics and did no favours for either. Politics became a ghost town, AH lost conversations suited to there and PC became such a clusterfcuk it needed to be shut down and it remains a high PITA forum for both users and mods".

The way I see it, I made a post about Dennis O'Brien, and his extraordinary luck with state contracts when a certain party were in govt.

Posts deleted. No pm explaining who deleted them, or for what specific reason they were deleted other than a very vague generic post about libellous innuendos.

I make a comment about my posts being deleted, explain there's nothing libellous on commenting on what's widely reported, and indeed even had enquiries over (moriarty tribunal) and posted paragraphs backing my assertions up from various media source's

No one from the mod team contacts me, or posts in thread why the posts were deleted.

Then Infracted. Then banned.

Still no explanation as to who deleted my posts, or for what reason they deleted them though.


What kind of rules should be followed, if those who make the rules, break the rules