NBA Playoffs 2017

LuckyLloyd · 19-04-2017 3:07pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

All of Steph's numbers were way down from the regular season, and he'd missed half of the Playoffs.
I think it's fair to assess that he wasn't 100%.

Or he was exploited as a defensive weakness time and again in the finals and the stress of fighting through switches and having to defend way more than he's used to in the regular season severely affected his offensive output. Was Isiah Thomas injured last night too?

The playoffs is big boys basketball.

ButtersSuki · 19-04-2017 4:15pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

oh yeah, Curry wasn't 100%. That old chestnut.

Ah come on now, surely you agree he was injured?

And don't forget Draymond was suspended for Game 5.

K.O.Kiki · 19-04-2017 4:21pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Or he was exploited as a defensive weakness time and again in the finals and the stress of fighting through switches and having to defend way more than he's used to in the regular season severely affected his offensive output. Was Isiah Thomas injured last night too?

The playoffs is big boys basketball.

IT's younger sister died in a car crash, man.

ButtersSuki · 19-04-2017 4:22pm

Horford was shocking last night. Shocking.

I said a few weeks ago Bill Simmons said the Celtics might cash in on Thomas this summer. The problem with doing that is they lose a huge chunk of offense in doing so. If they do trade/offload him, they've no standout offensive player/superstar. The Horford acquisition though it looked (relatively) ok at the time seems poor now. And then they become a building team again when they should really be adding to and boosting the current rotation. There's no guarantee they get the 1 pick either. I've stayed true to the Ainge process thus far but sitting on their hands throughout multiple trade windows and drafts whilst stockpiling assets has to yield results at some stage and it doesn't look great right now TBH. Maybe there's more in play that we don't know (Butler in summer? PG? I don't see either on their own being a major change btw and if you're Butler right now do you even want to go to Boston?)? I'll be honest, this season will be a huge disappointment (again) if, as is likely, they go out in the first round.

qwabercd · 19-04-2017 6:19pm

NufcNavan wrote: »

Playoff Rondo is some beast.

In one sense it's good that he's rising to the occasion but you'd have to wonder what the feck he was at for the rest of the season.

19-04-2017 6:25pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

IT's younger sister died in a car crash, man.

This plus he actually played well in game 1

For Forks Sake · 19-04-2017 7:13pm

brady23 · 19-04-2017 8:07pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Or he was exploited as a defensive weakness time and again in the finals and the stress of fighting through switches and having to defend way more than he's used to in the regular season severely affected his offensive output. Was Isiah Thomas injured last night too?

The playoffs is big boys basketball.

IT's younger sister died in a car crash, man.

Its terrible his sister died but all of his issues in terms of the playoffs were highlighted prior to it happening.

There is nothing about Horford or Thomas's play that is surprising thus far. I thought they'd find it tough but figured they would overcome the Bulls but their big 2 are worse than I thought.

As far as the Curry thing goes, I don't think he was 100% but I also don't think his game translates to being as remotely as effective in the post season as the regular season.

Players who don't have the physicality and/or defensive chops are always the ones to suffer in the post season and that's simply a flaw in Thomas and Curry.

NufcNavan · 19-04-2017 8:50pm

I'm enjoying watching that arrogant tool Bill Simmons choke on some crow.

Dude is nothing more than a homer fan who got a lucky break.

LuckyLloyd · 19-04-2017 9:47pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

IT's younger sister died in a car crash, man.

Aron Old-fashioned Overlord wrote: »

This plus he actually played well in game 1

Well, brady called what would happen to him before the series began.

There's also this:

He's an elite scorer, and to be 5'9" and dropping 30+ a night in the NBA is great. But the playoffs brutally expose weaknesses. The likes of IT and Curry are massively exploitable. Luckily for the Warriors, adding Durant probably will cover his weakness up enough to get over the line.

LuckyLloyd · 19-04-2017 10:05pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah come on now, surely you agree he was injured?

And don't forget Draymond was suspended for Game 5.

Was he injured in the 2015 finals too were he also performed subpar relative to his regular season exploits? Curry is the greatest jump shooter of all time and what he achieved in the previous two regular seasons was unreal. But against elite competition that can work a detailed game plan the fact that he's relatively undersized and weak defensively is something that the opposition will target. And when that gets targeted aggressively his offense will suffer - largely because he's very determined and fights against it as hard as he can.

I mean, IT dropped 22 last night, and Curry was still dropping buckets here and there during the finals last year. It's relative shadings, but if you can turn your opponent's talisman from star to above average guy you're probably going to win. The margins are tight at this level, very tight.

I also don't agree IT played well during game one, because he was abused defensively. That's the other side of all this, getting stops is magnified an awful lot more in a seven game series.

ButtersSuki · 19-04-2017 11:22pm

And people say I hate LeBron....

Gregk961 · 19-04-2017 11:31pm

Delighted to see Charles Barkley tearing the First Take crew apart, "talentless" is the perfect description for that lot. I understand its hard to fill an hour long show every day but sweet jesus at least keep it somewhat relevent. "Did presenter on other tv show say the wrong thing" how is that even a debate on a sports show.

Undisputed and First Take are abominations that should be destroyed yet recieve Millions of views.

brady23 · 19-04-2017 11:43pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

And people say I hate LeBron....

Do you honestly think the opinions people have given on Thomas/Curry in relation to their post season performances is the same as your previous opinions on LBJ?

19-04-2017 11:53pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

And people say I hate LeBron....

You do very irrationally the points about Isiah and Steph have basis at least weather you agree or not

LuckyLloyd · 20-04-2017 12:01am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

And people say I hate LeBron....

I'll take it you have nothing to rebut Curry / IT2 being defensive liabilities and suffering a relative dropoff in playoff play when compared to their regular season impact as a result.

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 12:16am

It's late and I'm very tired (just back from the states again and suffering) but to even put Curry and Thomas in the same sentence is grossly unfair to Curry. And I'm a Boston fan!

Top line: Curry was injured last year. You can't dispute that surely? And I'll say it again since it was ignored last time - Draymond out of game 5 last year. If he plays that game I suspect it would have been a 4-1 routing. But we'll never know.

Previous year's finals was his first. Not unusual for a player to not have a great first finals. LeBron has had a few poor finals btw but let's ignore that because it doesn't suit the argument.......

Going to try and sleep now. Night.

LuckyLloyd · 20-04-2017 12:22am

If the warriors had won 4 - 1 it wouldn't have changed the fact that Curry was relatively poor (by the standards he has created through his own immense regular season play). You are mixing up the results of the 2015 / 2016 series overall with specific analysis of how small, defensively lessor players suffer more in the playoffs than in the regular season due to greater game planning and intensity of effort. This is a tactical conversation, I have no idea what LeBron's career or Draymond being suspended for kicking people has to do with it.

IT and Curry are two examples of the same phenomenon - I'm obviously not suggesting IT is as good as Curry.

brady23 · 20-04-2017 12:38am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

It's late and I'm very tired (just back from the states again and suffering) but to even put Curry and Thomas in the same sentence is grossly unfair to Curry. And I'm a Boston fan!

Top line: Curry was injured last year. You can't dispute that surely? And I'll say it again since it was ignored last time - Draymond out of game 5 last year. If he plays that game I suspect it would have been a 4-1 routing. But we'll never know.

Previous year's finals was his first. Not unusual for a player to not have a great first finals. LeBron has had a few poor finals btw but let's ignore that because it doesn't suit the argument.......

Going to try and sleep now. Night.

The Draymond part was ignored because it's irrelevant. The point was players such as Curry and IT suffer in the post season because their defense and physicality are more exposed. It's not a comparison, nobody is saying IT is better or Curry is better etc, it's simply demonstrating similar weaknesses ie defense and physicality, it's just Curry is a perfect example of someone with a similar role in their team and has a large playoff sample size.

The LBJ part is again irrelevant too because we're not talking about him so whatever he's done or not done in finals is trivial. Even though he's not even part of this argument comparing his post season performances to IT or Curry is laughable, he's been to 6 consecutive finals as the best player, IT can't even get the Celtics to conference finals and Curry hasn't been the best player on his team in a finals yet.

The point was Thomas like Curry and like any player who is physically smaller and a poor defender has their weaknesses highlighted in the playoffs and their skills aren't as effective.
Curry irrespective of injury has never performed in the post season on a consistent basis the way he has in the regular season. This is the same for IT and the reasons are not deaths in family, injury etc it's simply their weaknesses are exposed more.

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 10:04am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'll take it you have nothing to rebut Curry / IT2 being defensive liabilities and suffering a relative dropoff in playoff play when compared to their regular season impact as a result.

I didn't see the above last night but seriously? If I don't reply instantly to your comment late at night you think you've silenced me with the brilliance of your rebuttal? That's some ego you have.

K.O.Kiki · 20-04-2017 11:10am

https://streamable.com/08s6v

Westbrook ain't no MVP.

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 11:11am

The best and worst of Russ on show last night. First 50pt Trip Dub in Playoff history, but he missed a record 14 shots in the 4th quarter. His reaction afterwards though shows the competitor in him "I don't give a f--- about the line. We lost."

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 11:12am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

https://streamable.com/08s6v

Westbrook ain't no MVP.

Oh the hate is strong today. You think Harden makes the perfect play every time?

The reality is they wouldn't even have been close in the game without him and everything positive he did in the game.

K.O.Kiki · 20-04-2017 11:16am

https://twitter.com/celtics/status/854756648929329164

LuckyLloyd · 20-04-2017 11:25am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

And people say I hate LeBron....

You posted the above. You replied, you just replied in an unhelpful manner devoid of useful debate.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I didn't see the above last night but seriously? If I don't reply instantly to your comment late at night you think you've silenced me with the brilliance of your rebuttal? That's some ego you have.

LuckyLloyd · 20-04-2017 11:27am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

https://streamable.com/08s6v

Westbrook ain't no MVP.

It's a regular season award. If it was a playoff / finals award Curry shouldn't have won it the last two years. Westbrook had the most amazing season over 82 games. If he plays badly now it doesn't affect that. The votes are in anyway, as far as I'm aware.

brady23 · 20-04-2017 11:32am

Warriors with no Durant still winning by 30 points, hard to see anyone beating am injury free Warriors team they just have too much.

Draymond is just the epitome of a guy who is maximises his natural talent and is one of the most well rounded players in the league.

How many guys have the ability to be the best defender on the court almost all of the time as well as the best passer, rebounder and an ability to knock down a bit shot.

I think he's a bit childish at times but you can't help but admire what he does.

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 1:10pm

I posted at 23:22. You posted this less than 40 mins later:

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'll take it you have nothing to rebut Curry / IT2 being defensive liabilities and suffering a relative dropoff in playoff play when compared to their regular season impact as a result.

So because I didn't reply within your time frame you decided you had won the argument. Interesting logic.

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 1:11pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You posted the above. You replied, you just replied in an unhelpful manner devoid of useful debate.

I'm actually rather busy at the moment between work and travel and can't commit as much time to the thread as I'd like. I'll come back to debate when I have more time.

ButtersSuki · 20-04-2017 1:12pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's a regular season award. If it was a playoff / finals award Curry shouldn't have won it the last two years. Westbrook had the most amazing season over 82 games. If he plays badly now it doesn't affect that. The votes are in anyway, as far as I'm aware.

Yes, since last Friday.

NBA Playoffs 2017

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