Could a terror attack happen in Ireland?

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

So, basically, they haven't got a clue who was in the Vauxhall when it was parked but they know who planned it? And what about this 'car thief', who stole the bloody thing from Carrickmacross? Was he ever caught?

Does it matter...he probably got done for robbing a car,its not his fault for what it was used for after

Dubh Linn

What about this 'car thief'?

Dubh Linn

Because I heard somewhere that he was "an ordinary car thief, but this was no ordinary car theft. The car was stolen to order by the Real IRA".

That is what I meant.

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Because I heard somewhere that he was "an ordinary car thief, but this was no ordinary car theft. The car was stolen to order by the Real IRA".

That is what I meant.

But it doesnt matter,he was asked to steal a car,stole one and whats happens after that is nothing to do with him....hopefully he was done for stealing a car but its a stretch to pin anything else on him

Dubh Linn

What if he is still nicking cars in the area, would that be likely now? Maybe he could be stealing it to order for a new kind of terrorist organization...

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

What if he is still nicking cars in the area, would that be likely now? Maybe he could be stealing it to order for a new kind of terrorist organization...

Or maybe he's not.

tomwaterford

Dubh Linn wrote: »

So, basically, they haven't got a clue who was in the Vauxhall when it was parked but they know who planned it? And what about this 'car thief', who stole the bloody thing from Carrickmacross? Was he ever caught?

They most likely know who was in it (but it's ubprovable)

They received two warnings....first giving accurateish location of the bomb
Second being from an misinformed informer who was lead to believe it was to bomb the courthouse (but no parking about that day)


So people were in effect herded towards the bomb on the grounds of misinformation




A dark day for security forces and dissident republicans that day....it in effect finished the troubles as who has the stomach to go back to it after that

Dubh Linn

What makes you certain of that?

Danzy

No I firmly believe they knew who stole it, knew who mixed it, knew who picked the target, knew the two raw recruits who panicked when they couldn't park at the Courthouse, knew more about the operation than any one person involved.

The Bomb Maker, as referred to in the BBC and other sources is one Kevin Fulton, known now as a very high profile British double agent.

Like I said they knew more about the attacks than the man who ordered it.

Danzy

Police Ombudsmen reports, Journalist investigations, Christ this was all in the news a decade ago.

gitzy16v

gitzy16v wrote: »

Or maybe he's not.

Dubh Linn wrote: »

What makes you certain of that?

If thats directed at me....re-read my post

tomwaterford

Dubh Linn wrote: »

What makes you certain of that?

This is widely known information


RUC had the mobiles of the bombers taped in days run up to it

It is presumed they were aware of its target....



The fact British soldiers were ordered off the streets and confined to barracks in omagh that day raises all sorts of unconfortable questions though

Danzy

A give away sign of an attack coming was an area being flooded by the security forces for a few hours and then pulled back all of a sudden, it was a sign that a Loyalist attack was imminent and people took extra precautions.

It will never go far because the authorities have too much to lose in a trial.

Dubh Linn

Right, well let's just clear up this thief issue first, would he still be operating in the area stealing cars now? Why/why not?

tomwaterford

Danzy wrote: »

A give away sign of an attack coming was an area being flooded by the security forces for a few hours and then pulled back all of a sudden, it was a sign that a Loyalist attack was imminent and people took extra precautions.

It will never go far because the authorities have too much to lose in a trial.

This happened far too often for it to be a coincidence

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Right, well let's just clear up this thief issue first, would he still be operating in the area stealing cars now? Why/why not?

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=330&Lang=1&PersistList=1&PersistPage=213

Heres a start

Dubh Linn

I'm asking what you personally think, is he still nicking cars in the area. Once I get a proper answer, I will give you my new theory...

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

I'm asking what you personally think, is he still nicking cars in the area. Once I get a proper answer, I will give you my new theory...

I dont give a sh1t if he's stealing cars or not....he's not helping paramiltaries in a bombing campaign anymore thats for sure.

Danzy

Dubh Linn wrote: »

I'm asking what you personally think, is he still nicking cars in the area. Once I get a proper answer, I will give you my new theory...

If it is not him nicking cars, it must be the other person in Ireland who nicks them, unless they are at a house party together which means no cars are nicked on said night.

Dubh Linn

I'm just concerned that if I ever park in that area again that the car will be gone and a few days later be on the news:).

My theory was, if the RUC or the Guards knew the car had been nicked, they could have done something about it before 31 people were blasted into next week.

Dubh Linn

Why don't the police just arrest whoever they think is responsible now?

Danzy

Dubh Linn wrote: »

I'm just concerned that if I ever park in that area again that the car will be gone and a few days later be on the news:).

My theory was, if the RUC or the Guards knew the car had been nicked, they could have done something about it before 31 people were blasted into next week.

They knew when the car was nicked, they controlled the man who built the bomb, they had everyone else's phone tapped, they knew the exact location of that car as soon as it was delivered in to the Real's hands.

From the moment it was delivered by the car thief, the RUC knew its exact location up to its explosion.

There were obvious reasons on why it wasn't stopped.

Dubh Linn

Not too obvious, because I can't see any reasons from where I'm sitting?

Dubh Linn

Also, why would that 'thief' pick Carrickmacross of all places to nick a car? Could he not just have nicked it in the north? If I was a car thief, I certainly wouldn't agree to give the car to a terrorist group. What possessed him to do it?

Danzy

Honest.

It finished physical force Republicanism as an option for a generation.

They were looking at it from their bigger picture and it wouldn't have been the first time that was done.

Panorama, the excellent BBC investigative programme had a piece on how they had seen evidence that the Car was bugged.

Danzy

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Also, why would that 'thief' pick Carrickmacross of all places to nick a car? Could he not just have nicked it in the north? If I was a car thief, I certainly wouldn't agree to give the car to a terrorist group. What possessed him to do it?

He could have been politically sympathetic, he could also not have given a **** and said thanks for the money, not knowing or caring how or why.

I would suspect though that he was sympathetic.

Dubh Linn

So, the RUC just, stood idly by and watched people get blown to pieces just so there would be no more 'republican violence'?

Dubh Linn

And what about Carrickmacross as a location, would he have not have picked the north so they didn't have to bother changing the reg plates?

tomwaterford

Dubh Linn wrote: »

So, the RUC just, stood idly by and watched people get blown to pieces just so there would be no more 'republican violence'?

Pretty much.... The evidemce points to this conclusion,bare in mind at the time it looked like dissidents and the lvf were goibg to do enough to derail the peace process?


As ive told you... There was two warnings, second of which herded people towards it.... Why have they not been realeased?

Danzy

That is hardly shocking, it was often enough that they were involved in blowing people away.

Unless you believe that all this is part of a Republican plot by the BBC and Police Ombudsman to discredit the RUC.

From their point of view it was a very small price to pay for such an important, long term objective.

tomwaterford

Dubh Linn wrote: »

And what about Carrickmacross as a location, would he have not have picked the north so they didn't have to bother changing the reg plates?

Youd want to be pretty dumb to drive around a bomb in a stolen car and not change the number plates??


Imagine the police wouldnt be looking out for tht car atal


I must say youve made quiet the journwy since your OP

Dubh Linn

Could an attack like Omagh ever happen again in Ireland or NI?

Dubh Linn

Dubh Linn wrote: »

My theory was, if the RUC or the Guards knew the car had been nicked, they could have done something about it before 31 people were blasted into next week.

Wow, great theory!

Dubh Linn

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Why don't the police just arrest whoever they think is responsible now?

Seriously?
People have been arrested.

Dubh Linn

Was that sarcasm?

And, my question, which does get back to the OP's question, is, could another Omagh-style attack be carried out by dissidents in either ROI or NI?

Danzy

Dubh Linn wrote: »

And what about Carrickmacross as a location, would he have not have picked the north so they didn't have to bother changing the reg plates?

and have a stolen car from that area, no, not at all.

The licence plates were changed as standard, using a ringer, ie a car plates of the same type of car, so that it would come up as clean.

Why go outside of an area that you didn't have contacts, couldn't be sure of who you were dealing with?

The irony being that the man building the bomb was a Newry man who had joined the Royal Irish Regiment as a teenager but was sent back to join the IRA as an infiltrator.

Kevin has had to answer questions about his involvement in the killing of security force members as well, some might think that given he was still a member of the security forces he mightn't but that is not how it works.

pangbang

Dubh Linn wrote: »

I'm just concerned that if I ever park in that area again that the car will be gone and a few days later be on the news:).

My theory was, if the RUC or the Guards knew the car had been nicked, they could have done something about it before 31 people were blasted into next week.

I once parked in that area, about 6.45pm it was. I remember it clearly. Just as I pulled to the side of the road a man with one leg and as many toes skulked past the car. Now it wasn't so much the shape of his nose that bothered me, more the all-powerful stench of dynamite. And wouldn't you know it, he wore a trenchcoat down to the ground that could easily, thought me, conceal something neer-do-well.

I waited an anxious moment in the car, the crippling sense of realisation gripping me about the ears. I knew there and then, I had to follow this guy, to know the unknowable.

Up the road and into an alley he went, the shadows barely containing his stench. And up I went too. Each footstep brought me yet closer to that singular idea....."this man might be a car thief, may somehow be related to a terrorist incident and for all I know, I could be asked about this on some messageboard on the intranets of the future. I need to have the info to impart with Dubh Linn, whoever he may be! I simply must!"

That dark alley hid many secrets, none that I cared to know bar the answer for Dubh Linn. Sweaty, stifling and obscene, the horrific picture revealed itself in increments of insanity. There, hunched against a supermacs bin, twirling a hula-hoop with frightening intent and a crooked smile that would never leave my dreams, was the answer to Dubh Linns question, the potential car thief with the most toes in Omagh. Who was that person?.........

it was none other than.........











me talking out of my hole

Dubh Linn

Who's Kevin? Also, could another attack like Omagh happen again on the island?

Danzy

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Was that sarcasm?

And, my question, which does get back to the OP's question, is, could another Omagh-style attack be carried out by dissidents in either ROI or NI?

Not very likely, given how heavily infiltrated they are, same as back then, and especially the Omagh team.

Nor is there an appetite for it, even in dissident circles, the big bomb idea ended with Omagh.

Danzy

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Who's Kevin? Also, could another attack like Omagh happen again on the island?

Kevin Fulton, the bomb maker, he was a man from County Down who joined the Royal Irish Regiment but was sent back to join the South Down IRA as an agent.

Dubh Linn

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Could an attack like Omagh ever happen again in Ireland or NI?

Google bombs found by gardai in the last few years.

Dubh Linn

So, we won't see another Omagh in this lifetime then?

Dubh Linn

I still haven't had an answer to my question,

Is 'The Thief' still a threat to vehicles in the Carrickmacross area?

Yourself isit

Why has this thread moved onto republican violence?

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

I still haven't had an answer to my question,

Is 'The Thief' still a threat to vehicles in the Carrickmacross area?

Yes he is...happy now...he stole my car last week the bastard.

Dubh Linn

I know we are getting a bit off topic, but the sheer curiosity about 'The Thief' and why Omagh could have been prevented astounds me.

AudreyHepburn

I don't think there's anywhere these maniacs wouldn't target sadly. Our neutrality won't deterred them. We are a white western non Muslim country, that's all the motive they need.

Dubh Linn

Is there any genuine threat from Republican violence in Ireland at the moment?

Danzy

So the bomb maker worked for the British Security forces, the car was bugged, all their phones were bugged for days before hand, they knew the time of the attack, knew everyone involved and we know all of this going from the ombudsman and British Journalists investigating it.

It really is a pity that the RUC couldn't get a break on the case before hand,bar from even knowing the bowel movements of everyone involved.

gitzy16v

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Is there any genuine threat from Republican violence in Ireland at the moment?

What do you think?