US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Avatar MIA · 07-09-2017 9:09pm

BillyBobBS wrote: »

China have been badly exposed by this crisis. Anyone saying anything else knows nothing about the situation. They have a manic waving nuclear weapons on their southern border making absolute asshats out of them. They look very weak.

Two things I am certain of.

1. Kim isn't going to live to a ripe old age.
2. Anyone that uses the term asshat should be strapped to the tip of the next rocket to be launched.

flaneur · 07-09-2017 9:27pm

BillyBobBS wrote: »

China have been badly exposed by this crisis. Anyone saying anything else knows nothing about the situation. They have a manic waving nuclear weapons on their southern border making absolute asshats out of them. They look very weak.

Not to mention causing earthquakes in Northern China overtime he tests the damn things!

Dr Brown · 07-09-2017 9:30pm

If NK really has nukes (which I doubt) you think they would test them above ground.

BillyBobBS · 07-09-2017 9:31pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

If NK really has nukes (which I doubt) you think they would test them above ground.

:pac:

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-09-2017 9:44pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

If NK really has nukes (which I doubt) you think they would test them above ground.

Don't call wolf, that may well be what they're about to do, hopefully not, or hopefully somewhere well out of way in the Pacific.

Only a handful of large above ground tests have been done.

One very big took place up in Siberia and shattered windows hundreds of miles away in Norway. The pilots who dropped the thing just about managed to get out of the way.

Dr Brown · 07-09-2017 9:46pm

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Don't call wolf, that may well be what they're about to do, hopefully not, or hopefully somewhere well out of way in the Pacific.

Only a handful of large above ground tests have been done.

One very big took place up in Siberia and shattered windows hundreds of miles away in Norway. The pilots who dropped the thing just about managed to get out of the way.

There has been thousands of nukes tested since WW2.

youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

Nettle Soup · 07-09-2017 9:50pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

China is pulling the strings. The US is so focused on the NK threat that they have taken their eye off the much larger Chinese threat. For every bit of Chinese cooperation in reigning in NK, the US and her allies will pay dearly in concessions to the Chinese on the South China Sea, Japanese Islands, Indian disputed territory and ultimately Taiwan.
It's the long game which the Chinese invented that the Americans don't understand.

There is a lot of anti-China bias on this thread. I think people need to move on from the anti-China, anti-Red propaganda from the West. It's way way out of date! You will never understand a situation with blinkers on. Especially American made blinkers. I have been to China a few times for business and it is a very impressive country. I was there in December 2016 and one guy told me that they see Kim as a funny nuisance. He told me the press and social media used to call him Little Fat 3 (or similar). Kim actually complained to the Chinese government about the widespread use of the nickname. They don't fear him.

The fact is that China is taking over the world economically. They are preoccupied with business and the government have a huge team of talented strategists ensuring China becomes the most powerful country in the world....it's inevitable. The don't want war though. Far from it.

Gatling · 07-09-2017 9:51pm

How original

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-09-2017 9:52pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

There has been thousands of nukes tested since WW2.

youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

Most underground though. Those large hydrogen ones make a bit of a mess up in the air.

07-09-2017 9:59pm

Nettle Soup wrote: »

The fact is that China is taking over the world economically. They are preoccupied with business and the government have a huge team of talented strategists ensuring China becomes the most powerful country in the world....it's inevitable. The don't want war though. Far from it.

This!

The Chinese are learning from history on how to build an empire that will possibly surpass the what the British Empire achieved at the end of the 19th century.

Trade deals with leaders of other countries,
Send "managers" to ensure the trade is favourable to China
Manipulate local politics where needed
import staff to run the operation
eventually, bring in military to ensure the empire is under control.

China have already done the first four points in many places around the world.

Cheerful Spring · 07-09-2017 10:03pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

If NK really has nukes (which I doubt) you think they would test them above ground.

We can detect radiation from a blast. When a nuclear weapon goes off a seismic tremor is detected and the the event in Nk was measured at 6.4 on the Richter scale. Earthquake generates this force.

North Korea is hardly going to detonate a bomb above ground. There would be fallout and people would be killed and die of radiation sickness.

Cheerful Spring · 07-09-2017 10:06pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

There has been thousands of nukes tested since WW2.

youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

They exploded nuclear weapons near uninhabitable islands or in a desert.

SafeSurfer · 07-09-2017 10:10pm

Firstly the Chinese game Go is many times more complex than chess. Ask any AI.

Secondly if anyone thinks China looks weak in this crisis how does that make the US look? They are using all their political capital to get Beijing to diffuse a situation they are themselves escalating. "Fire, fury and power". It's like a B movie script.

I agree China doesn't want war. That's what I mean by the long game. But they will wring every advantage out of this crisis to put them in s stronger position in the next one and the one after that.

Nettle Soup · 07-09-2017 10:24pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Firstly the Chinese game Go is many times more complex than chess. Ask any AI.

Secondly if anyone thinks China looks weak in this crisis how does that make the US look? They are using all their political capital to get Beijing to diffuse a situation they are themselves escalating. "Fire, fury and power". It's like a B movie script.

I agree China doesn't want war. That's what I mean by the long game. But they will wring every advantage out of this crisis to put them in s stronger position in the next one and the one after that.

China never want war. War is bad for business.
The Chinese are laughing at Trump alright. They think he is a complete fool and is just provoking a barking dog.

Nettle Soup · 07-09-2017 10:26pm

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/chinas-north-korea-solution/

Korea experts in China recently published a comprehensive analysis of the nuclear problem of the Korean Peninsula, A Study of Crisis Management of the Korean Peninsula (朝鲜半岛危机管理研究). Published internally by the People’s Liberation Army, this book is considered a genuine assessment of the intentions behind the CPC’s North Korean policy. It states that “China’s core interest [in the Korean peninsula] is preserving stability and preventing war; its extended interest is maintaining influence over North Korea to a certain extent.” Providing the rationale for this broad foreign policy goal, the analysis stresses that “maintaining stability on the Korean peninsula is helpful for China in acquiring a peaceful external environment, providing stable international circumstances for China’s economic construction.”

China’s preference for peace on the Korean Peninsula is long-standing. Mao Zedong consistently, albeit unsuccessfully, opposed Stalin and Kim Il-sung’s plan to launch the Korean War in 1950. Moreover, when Kim Il-sung, after witnessing the communists’ victory in the Vietnam War, visited Beijing in 1975 to request aid for a second attempt to unify Korea by force, Mao rejected this plan for a second Korean War. This is not to say that China is humanitarian and philanthropic, nor does it mean the “blood brothers alliance” between China and North Korea is obsolete. Instead, it means that China opposes war or instability on the peninsula regardless of the instigator. That is why, even under strong criticism from the international community for its lenient implementation of economic sanctions on North Korea, Beijing cannot simply let the dictatorial regime in Pyongyang collapse.

Read and Learn. Some of the posters here sound like they learned history from Father Ted.

SafeSurfer · 07-09-2017 10:28pm

Nettle Soup wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Firstly the Chinese game Go is many times more complex than chess. Ask any AI.

Secondly if anyone thinks China looks weak in this crisis how does that make the US look? They are using all their political capital to get Beijing to diffuse a situation they are themselves escalating. "Fire, fury and power". It's like a B movie script.

I agree China doesn't want war. That's what I mean by the long game. But they will wring every advantage out of this crisis to put them in s stronger position in the next one and the one after that.

China never want war. War is bad for business.
The Chinese are laughing at Trump alright. They think he is a complete fool.

China will want war when it suits China to have war. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Do you think Chinas resources are infinite. The worlds largest population must have food and water. Some Chinese would consider that worth fighting for. At a time of their choosing of course.

Nettle Soup · 07-09-2017 10:30pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

China will want war when it suits China to have war. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Do you think Chinas resources are infinite. The worlds largest population must have food and water. Some Chinese would consider that worth fighting for. At a time of their choosing of course.

Nope, they will never want war with another 'nuclear' country. Nuclear war is a lose-lose-lose.

They are already buying up most of Africa to ensure they have economic resources. They are brilliant at finding opportunities. They don't care about political persuasion or native religions - they know that money talks.

Nothing will happen in relation to NK. It's a non-story.

SafeSurfer · 07-09-2017 10:31pm

Nettle Soup wrote: »

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/chinas-north-korea-solution/

Korea experts in China recently published a comprehensive analysis of the nuclear problem of the Korean Peninsula, A Study of Crisis Management of the Korean Peninsula (朝鲜半岛危机管理研究). Published internally by the People’s Liberation Army, this book is considered a genuine assessment of the intentions behind the CPC’s North Korean policy. It states that “China’s core interest [in the Korean peninsula] is preserving stability and preventing war; its extended interest is maintaining influence over North Korea to a certain extent.” Providing the rationale for this broad foreign policy goal, the analysis stresses that “maintaining stability on the Korean peninsula is helpful for China in acquiring a peaceful external environment, providing stable international circumstances for China’s economic construction.”

China’s preference for peace on the Korean Peninsula is long-standing. Mao Zedong consistently, albeit unsuccessfully, opposed Stalin and Kim Il-sung’s plan to launch the Korean War in 1950. Moreover, when Kim Il-sung, after witnessing the communists’ victory in the Vietnam War, visited Beijing in 1975 to request aid for a second attempt to unify Korea by force, Mao rejected this plan for a second Korean War. This is not to say that China is humanitarian and philanthropic, nor does it mean the “blood brothers alliance” between China and North Korea is obsolete. Instead, it means that China opposes war or instability on the peninsula regardless of the instigator. That is why, even under strong criticism from the international community for its lenient implementation of economic sanctions on North Korea, Beijing cannot simply let the dictatorial regime in Pyongyang collapse.

Read and Learn. Some of the posters here sound like they learned history from Father Ted.

Wow a "leaked" People's Liberation Army memo showing their "true" thoughts.

Nettle Soup · 07-09-2017 10:34pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Wow a "leaked" People's Liberation Army memo showing their "true" thoughts.

Where do you get your information?

There are always excellent articles in that magazine.

Dohnjoe · 07-09-2017 10:34pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

China will want war when it suits China to have war. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Do you think Chinas resources are infinite. The worlds largest population must have food and water. Some Chinese would consider that worth fighting for. At a time of their choosing of course.

It's not a game of Civilization. China has 1.4 bn people, they avoid unnecessary (actual) external conflict at any cost, they nearly always abstain or veto at any UN resolution with teeth. They value stability very highly - a war in N Korea would flood their borders with refugees and promote regional instability

SafeSurfer · 07-09-2017 10:36pm

Nettle Soup wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

China will want war when it suits China to have war. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Do you think Chinas resources are infinite. The worlds largest population must have food and water. Some Chinese would consider that worth fighting for. At a time of their choosing of course.

Nope, they will never want war with another 'nuclear' country. Nuclear war is a lose-lose-lose.

They are already buying up most of Africa to ensure they have economic resources. They are brilliant at finding opportunities. They don't care about political persuasion or native religions - they know that money talks.

Nothing will happen in relation to NK. It's a non-story.

I'll take your opinion on the calculations of the communist party with a pinch of salt. What if the advantage swung in their favour? Like a missile defence shield. There comes a time when momentum for war becomes a force in itself. An advantage that might never again be replicated.
You discount any future military technology. A lead in cyber warfare could render other nuclear powers impotent.

Dr Brown · 07-09-2017 10:39pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We can detect radiation from a blast. When a nuclear weapon goes off a seismic tremor is detected and the the event in Nk was measured at 6.4 on the Richter scale. Earthquake generates this force.

North Korea is hardly going to detonate a bomb above ground. There would be fallout and people would be killed and die of radiation sickness.

Those underground blasts could be done with a ****e load of conventional explosives.

Ron Paul dosen't believe they have nukes.

If they can make nukes then why is half the country in darkness at night ?

Nettle Soup · 07-09-2017 10:39pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I'll take your opinion on the calculations of the communist party with a pinch of salt.

Which part of my posts do you disagree with? Please quote the relevant text. Lets deal with what we know.

Avatar MIA · 07-09-2017 10:54pm

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Most underground though. Those large hydrogen ones make a bit of a mess up in the air.

NK has nowhere near the size of the ones that you're talking about. Still, setting them off overground would be all kinds of stupid. At least, I don't think NK has a vast desert at its disposal.

josip · 07-09-2017 11:32pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

Those underground blasts could be done with a ****e load of conventional explosives.

Ron Paul dosen't believe they have nukes.

If they can make nukes then why is half the country in darkness at night ?

100,000 tonnes of TNT?
How many truckloads would that require to deliver to the test site? 2,000?

07-09-2017 11:36pm

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Do you see Saddam threatening the world with WMD's?

That would be some trick if we did :-)

Ash.J.Williams · 07-09-2017 11:36pm

NK won't do sh1t...

gitzy16v · 07-09-2017 11:52pm

josip wrote: »

100,000 tonnes of TNT?
How many truckloads would that require to deliver to the test site? 2,000?

Slightly more than 2000..doesn't sound feasible to me.

MadYaker · 08-09-2017 12:26am

It was a H bomb according to most experts. I don't think there'll be a war on the Korean peninsula. Kim knows that would be the end for him. As would launching nukes. Having nuclear capabilities buys him a seat at the big boys table and allows him to get things that he needs for the survival of his regime, namely massive amounts of aid to keep his country from becoming a failed state.

Dr Brown · 08-09-2017 12:40am

MadYaker wrote: »

It was a H bomb according to most experts. I don't think there'll be a war on the Korean peninsula. Kim knows that would be the end for him. As would launching nukes. Having nuclear capabilities buys him a seat at the big boys table and allows him to get things that he needs for the survival of his regime, namely massive amounts of aid to keep his country from becoming a failed state.

Are these the same "experts" who said that Iraq had W.M.Ds ?

US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

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