US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

I'm pretty sure that only the Daily Mail comments section could beat this thread in terms of sheer inanity, misinformation and relentless use of logical fallacies. And I think it's gotten this bad because posters with sense have stopped bothering with it.

suicide_circus

^^^What do you think should be done about North Korea building a nuclear arsenal?

flaneur

What’s surprising me is the number of countries, including ones that you wouldn’t expect, that are allegedly buying goods and services from DPRK.

And some of the exports make no sense either. For example, there was an article on DW news claiming that North Korea had was exporting X-ray Equipment to Germany.


http://www.dw.com/en/a-closer-look-at-which-countries-trade-with-north-korea/a-40352763


Who in Germany would be buying that kind of equipment from somewhere like North Korea? It doesn’t even make sense.

Also, Broadcasting Equipment is listed as one of their general exports. Who uses North Korean stuff like that?

You’d wonder is something being misclassified or is there something very odd going on?

The other major export seems to be direct labour, and again some countries in the EU were listed as using it, notably the former Eastern Bloc members.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^What do you think should be done about North Korea building a nuclear arsenal?

Nothing.

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing.

While I agree that something doing nothing is the correct course of action, I'm not convinced that appeasement of this totalitarian despot is completely foolproof. Not saying I have the answer mind you.

Nettle Soup

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing.

I agree. Nothing. It worked for decades.
Only difference now is Trump wanting to look tough.

suicide_circus

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I agree. Nothing. It worked for decades.
Only difference now is Trump wanting to look tough.

And that NK have built nuclear weapons.

Nettle Soup

suicide_circus wrote: »

And that NK have built nuclear weapons.

North Korea has conducted several tests with nuclear bombs. However we do not know yet whether they are able to make a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on to a missile.

Since the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons came into force in 1970, 3 countries that were not signatory to the Treaty have conducted nuclear tests, namely India, Pakistan, and North Korea. Nobody is stopping India or Pakistan. Many believe Israel also have nuclear weapons but they wont admit it.

Under NATO nuclear weapons sharing, the United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey to deploy and store. That said, they need the US codes to fire them.

suicide_circus

I think you're splitting hairs with the bomb/missile distinction. NK could just as easily covertly transport a device to a target rather than launch a missile but I take your points about the other countries mentioned. However, global politics is not really about fairness. Just because India built a bomb dosnt mean we have to be ok with anyone else doing likewise, particularly a regime as overtly demented as the one in NK.

Nettle Soup

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think you're splitting hairs with the bomb/missile distinction. NK could just as easily covertly transport a device to a target rather than launch a missile but I take your points about the other countries mentioned. However, global politics is not really about fairness. Just because India built a bomb dosnt mean we have to be ok with anyone else doing likewise, particularly a regime as overtly demented as the one in NK.

Yeah fair enough but who is to say Pakistan or Turkey or Israel don't become "overtly demented". Those religious countries get demented easily!

What would you do about the North Korea issue?

Dohnjoe

Dr Brown wrote: »

Are these the same "experts" who said that Iraq had W.M.Ds ?

Actually Iraq did have WMDs (though in limited quantities) Previously Saddam gassed the Kurds. Several years after the war started WMDs were found (shells), but not in any significant number or as part of a large active programme as to be sufficient

Many suspect Saddam disposed of the WMDs before the war. That's not to say the intelligence was correct - there were many issues (Niger yellow cake, etc) that turned out to be patently false. However that is the nature of intelligence.

There is no reason to doubt NK has nukes. According to all neighbours and powers with the ability to detect - they do. Seismic graphs show several tests over the years and experts have ruled out large amounts of TNT to produce similar results. The latest test implies a hydrogen bomb.

BillyBobBS

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Actually Iraq did have WMDs (though in limited quantities) Previously Saddam gassed the Kurds. Several years after the war started WMDs were found (shells), but not in any significant number or as part of a large active programme as to be sufficient

Many suspect Saddam disposed of the WMDs before the war. That's not to say the intelligence was correct - there were many issues (Niger yellow cake, etc) that turned out to be patently false. However that is the nature of intelligence.

There is no reason to doubt NK has nukes. According to all neighbours and powers with the ability to detect - they do. Seismic graphs show several tests over the years and experts have ruled out large amounts of TNT to produce similar results. The latest test implies a hydrogen bomb.

Of course they have nuclear weapons. Only a few deluded posters on here believe the paradise that is NK don't have them.

Nettle Soup

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Of course they have nuclear weapons. Only a few deluded posters on here believe the paradise that is NK don't have them.

A few posters are willing to learn. North Korea has conducted several tests with nuclear bombs. There is a difference. However we do not know yet whether they are able to make a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on to a missile. Until they manage that, they can only drive a nuclear bomb to SK.

ilkhanid

Dr Brown wrote: »

Are these the same "experts" who said that Iraq had W.M.Ds ?

Why should they be? Do you think there is a limited pool of experts and they stopped training new ones?
Anyway. Experts were divided on the Saddam threat. The problem was that the Bush administration simply ignored any intelligence that didn't reinforce their choice for war.

o1s1n

Nettle Soup wrote: »

A few posters are willing to learn. North Korea has conducted several tests with nuclear bombs. There is a difference. However we do not know yet whether they are able to make a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on to a missile. Until they manage that, they can only drive a nuclear bomb to SK.

They have 80 or so bombers. Harbin H-5. Would probably get blown to bits if they tried to use them, but still, it's another option!

The H-5 is a simple, robust, jet-engined bomber, capable of carrying up to 3,000 kilograms (6,600 lb) of bombs, including conventional, biological, chemical or nuclear. Its range is about 2,400 kilometres (1,500 mi), capable of hitting targets in most of Japan and all of South Korea.

Nettle Soup

o1s1n wrote: »

They have 80 or so bombers. Harbin H-5. Would probably get blown to bits if they tried to use them, but still, it's another option!

The H-5 is a simple, robust, jet-engined bomber, capable of carrying up to 3,000 kilograms (6,600 lb) of bombs, including conventional, biological, chemical or nuclear. Its range is about 2,400 kilometres (1,500 mi), capable of hitting targets in most of Japan and all of South Korea.

Yeah fair enough but what's the surprise here? Atomic bombs are 70+ year old technology! I'd expect to be able to create one myself with a trip to B&Q, a Diploma in Physics and some heavy Googling. H-Bombs are a bit more recent I believe (late 1950s?).

So what? North Korea have been trying to create them for many years.
But Kim knows if he ever deploys one, he will have less than 24 hours to live. So why would he?

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing.

Is doing nothing setting out a good example for any and all other despot leaders, that repeatedly offer to send 'gift's (see their promotional videos) to any country they don't find favour with?

The_Valeyard

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Yeah fair enough but what's the surprise here? Atomic bombs are 70+ year old technology! I'd expect to be able to create one myself with a trip to B&Q, a Diploma in Physics and some heavy Googling. H-Bombs are a bit more recent I believe (late 1950s?).

So what? North Korea have been trying to create them for many years.
But Kim knows if he ever deploys one, he will have less than 24 hours to live. So why would he?

Right now, men in dark suits and sunshades are on the way to your house

BillyBobBS

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Yeah fair enough but what's the surprise here? Atomic bombs are 70+ year old technology! I'd expect to be able to create one myself with a trip to B&Q, a Diploma in Physics and some heavy Googling. H-Bombs are a bit more recent I believe (late 1950s?).

So what? North Korea have been trying to create them for many years.
But Kim knows if he ever deploys one, he will have less than 24 hours to live. So why would he?

Step away from the keyboard and get some air.

Evie Big Troop

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Is doing nothing setting out a good example for any and all other despot leaders, that repeatedly offer to send 'gift's (see their promotional videos) to any country they don't find favour with?

No.

Nettle Soup

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Step away from the keyboard and get some air.

I've provide a lot more clarity on this thread than you
What progress have you made with your nuclear bunker??

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

No.

Did you not say on the previous page, 'Nothing' should be done about Kimmy's growing arsenal?

Evie Big Troop

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Did you not say on the previous page, 'Nothing' should be done about Kimmy's growing arsenal?

Yeah. What's your point?

fxotoole

Kimmy "Fat Chops" isn't going to launch or use a nuke, as it will be the end of him and his pathetic regime.

His ultimate aim is to solidify his place as a nuclear power, to deter any attempts by foreign powers to depose him. He has achieved this goal now, and Trump is just huffing and puffing with no intention of blowing the house down.

As previously stated in this thread, China won't go to war as it's bad for business, but China won't depose Fat Chops either, because regional instability would also be bad for business.

I only see this going one way - stalemate. In a few weeks, the Faux News scaremongering headlines will fizzle out and it'll be back to business as usual.

Nettle Soup

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/09/07/hurricane-irma-to-become-more-important-the-closer-it-gets-to-the-us/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

THE severity and importance of Hurricane Irma is set to rise as it approaches a land mass, known as North America, which is more important than lesser land masses such as ‘not America’.

“If you look at the map, it hasn’t hit anywhere of note yet,” explained US-based weatherman Cyril Hobin, pointing at an area on a map named ‘not Florida’.

“As it surges towards Florida, it will edge out news from elsewhere, with Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar set to be the first casualties. I don’t want to speak too soon, but if it really goes to town on the US, you might not hear from Brexit for a week,” explained veteran of Devoted Broadcast Time Allotment, Henry Fairings.

There are no indications that Irma will obstruct the media’s attempts to stoke support for military intervention in North Korea.

Nettle Soup

fxotoole wrote: »

Kimmy "Fat Chops" isn't going to launch or use a nuke, as it will be the end of him and his pathetic regime.

His ultimate aim is to solidify his place as a nuclear power, to deter any attempts by foreign powers to depose him. He has achieved this goal now, and Trump is just huffing and puffing with no intention of blowing the house down.

As previously stated in this thread, China won't go to war as it's bad for business, but China won't depose Fat Chops either, because regional instability would also be bad for business.

I only see this going one way - stalemate. In a few weeks, the Faux News scaremongering headlines will fizzle out and it'll be back to business as usual.

Correct. Kim only wants nuclear weapons for one reason - Leverage.

Trump will get bored of him because that's what all spoiled little brats do...

o1s1n

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Yeah fair enough but what's the surprise here? Atomic bombs are 70+ year old technology! I'd expect to be able to create one myself with a trip to B&Q, a Diploma in Physics and some heavy Googling. H-Bombs are a bit more recent I believe (late 1950s?).

So what? North Korea have been trying to create them for many years.
But Kim knows if he ever deploys one, he will have less than 24 hours to live. So why would he?

Not sure what your point is? Are you saying that there should be no limitations placed on any state seeking to acquire nuclear weapons?

o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

Not sure what your point is? Are you saying that there should be no limitations placed on any state seeking to acquire nuclear weapons?

Holy strawman Batman.

Nettle Soup

o1s1n wrote: »

Not sure what your point is? Are you saying that there should be no limitations placed on any state seeking to acquire nuclear weapons?

I would not make it easy on them but I don't think the arrogant Americans have any right to "police" the entire world.
Their meddling has done enough damage as is it.

The Iranians are not far off now and it's already brought them leverage with the Yanks. It's harder to be bullied when both parties have sticks.

Interviews and surveys show that the majority of Iranians in all groups favor their country's nuclear program. Polls in 2008 showed that the vast majority of Iranians want their country to develop nuclear energy, and 90% of Iranians believe it is important for Iran "to have a full fuel cycle nuclear program." Though Iranians are not Arab, Arab publics in six countries also believe that Iran has the right to its nuclear program and should not be pressured to stop that program. A poll in September 2010 by the International Peace Institute found that 71 percent of Iranians favored the development of nuclear weapons.

Obviously a perfect world is no nuclear weapons. Would the Americans be willing to do that? Never...

We're a long way from the Cold War nuclear threat...this NK nonsense will be a non-story soon. Sooner they impeach Trump the better.

o1s1n

Deleted User wrote: »

Holy strawman Batman.

Well what other conclusion would you derive from his post?