US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Billy86

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Is the person in the video an authority on the issue?

Looking briefly at the guy's other videos on youtube... I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

Billy86

fxotoole wrote: »

What makes you think the average North Korean will view your forces as liberators, not invaders? The population are brainwashed to give their lives for the Kim's. You could be facing a massive nationwide insurgency of fanatics who will fight to the death, a la World War II Japan.

Ah sure we all know it'll be grand, just look at the liberation of the Middle East the last 15 years... of course they'll see American troops as their saviours!

4068ac1elhodqr

fxotoole wrote: »

What makes you think the average North Korean will view your forces as liberators, not invaders? The population are brainwashed to give their lives for the Kim's. You could be facing a massive nationwide insurgency of fanatics who will fight to the death, a la World War II Japan.

This is the information age, present them with relevant cognitive information so that they will realise they'll be in a better place after liberation.

Needless to say it won't be easy (cult withdrawal syndrome), but still possible.

It would also require an approach that doesn't involve carpeting flat their population centers (unlike other examples) and maybe bring them food & medical aid.

As opposed to risking famine and even total grand destruction if NK continues on it's current path in years to come.

Evie Big Troop

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

This is the information age, present them with relevant cognitive information so that they will realise they'll be in a better place after liberation.

Needless to say it won't be easy (cult withdrawal syndrome), but still possible.

It would also require an approach that doesn't involve carpeting flat their population centers (unlike other examples) and maybe bring them food & medical aid.

As opposed to risking famine and even total grand destruction if NK continues on it's current path in years to come.

This is the information age here.... not there. Their top universities are still using Windows 95 and rarely have external internet access. Their schools follow a very traditional regime that has promoted belief in their leader and government. And while some people might silently question the reality that they've been taught to see.. the majority have accepted it hook-line-sinker.

This isn't like China where people can get a VPN and access facebook. N.Korea has had a news and information blackout for decades.. Total/absolute control. And an indoctrinated population that has been told for generations that the "west" are demons that wish to destroy their history/culture/way of life.

So, you're not going to be able to combat that indoctrination until well after the government has been removed, and even then, I wouldn't be too sure of being able to change the way they view the US or western nations.

Any military action on the ground in N.Korea will be facing a very hostile population.. who have no reason to believe anything we say.

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the information age here.... not there. Their top universities are still using Windows 95 and rarely have external internet access. Their schools follow a very traditional regime that has promoted belief in their leader and government. And while some people might silently question the reality that they've been taught to see.. the majority have accepted it hook-line-sinker.

This isn't like China where people can get a VPN and access facebook. N.Korea has had a news and information blackout for decades.. Total/absolute control. And an indoctrinated population that has been told for generations that the "west" are demons that wish to destroy their history/culture/way of life.

So, you're not going to be able to combat that indoctrination until well after the government has been removed, and even then, I wouldn't be too sure of being able to change the way they view the US or western nations.

Any military action on the ground in N.Korea will be facing a very hostile population.. who have no reason to believe anything we say.

Perhaps so, in that case if they don't have as many 'information channels', it means the existing channels open actually present 'more value' and can be used to an advantage i.e. Paper leaflet drops.

This has been done from the South in low capacity and with low penetration but some success. Think they even sent in VHS/Betamax video tapes, wherby NK didn't actually win the WorldCup by 16 goals.

IRQ had a better trained, equipped and equally hostile force, that quickly surrendered after 'S&Awe', reports were that many were tired, hungry and poorly equipped. Free food, shelter, aid and water can be very persuasive.

Certainly not an easy task, and a bucket load of psychological syndromes to deal with, as typical with Cults.

Cheerful Spring

UN meeting today. United States is looking to impose harsher sanctions against North Korea. Interesting to see if China and Russia go along with this new bill or look to have it watered down?

Nettle Soup

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

IRAQ had a better trained, equipped and equally hostile force, that quickly surrendered after 'S&Awe', reports were that many were tired, hungry and poorly equipped. Free food, shelter, aid and water can be very persuasive.

The Iraqi army were useless and were a beaten force in less than a month. The US captured all the key cities in 21 days.

500,000 have been killed in Iraq since the invasion of 2003. Mostly civilians.
I guess they missed the leaflet drop.

4068ac1elhodqr

Nettle Soup wrote: »

The Iraqi army were useless and were a beaten force in less than a month. The US captured all the key cities in 21 days.

500,000 have been killed in Iraq since the invasion of 2003. Mostly civilians.
I guess they missed the leaflet drop.

They were good enough to hold off their significant neighbours for many a decade. They also had plenty of tanks, just that their range was lacking. And thus were technically defeated in a matter of days because of that.

That was also a fairly large country, large population with significant pre-existing internal tensions, multi-level-corruption and probably thus too large a feat in reality. Hence the mess that it is now.

NK and it's capital can hardly be called a bustling city/country. Wonder what the stats are even on such basic things as car ownership. They likely don't have the same white Toyota 4WD dealerships that others seem to have.

Cheerful Spring

Nettle Soup wrote: »

The Iraqi army were useless and were a beaten force in less than a month. The US captured all the key cities in 21 days.

500,000 have been killed in Iraq since the invasion of 2003. Mostly civilians.
I guess they missed the leaflet drop.

Iraqi army lacked morale. They gave up as they knew the war was over when they saw the Coalition tanks heading towards Baghdad.

Evie Big Troop

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Perhaps so, in that case if they don't have as many 'information channels', it means the existing channels open actually present 'more value' and can be used to an advantage i.e. Paper leaflet drops.

This has been done from the South in low capacity and with low penetration but some success. Think they even sent in VHS/Betamax video tapes, wherby NK didn't actually win the WorldCup by 16 goals.

I'm curious... what is some success measured by?

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Simple North Korea keeps Threatening south Korea ,

Do you know anything about korea

Most of their threats is directed at the United States. You have European leaders coming out claiming North missiles can hit London and Paris, what the hell. I don't remember Kim issuing threats against France or the UK a year ago? North Korea hates Japan for reasons that have nothing to do with America. China and North Korea but look at Japan as doing wrong to them in the past. South Korea and United States, they hate mostly, and it mostly the government they hate not the people.

Cheerful Spring

Nettle Soup wrote: »

China will never go to war with the US. It would be mutually destructive. Lose Lose. They are already winning the Economic "war" hands down.

It depends on what the United States does to keep China at bay. People forget or don't know the Americans imposed an economic blockade on Japan prior to Pearl Harbor and it ultimately lead them to start a war.

Nettle Soup

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It depends on what the United States does to keep China at bay. People forget or don't know the Americans imposed an economic blockade on Japan prior to Pearl Harbor and it ultimately lead them to start a war.

That's just waffle. To keep China at bay of what?

Japan to nuked!

China will not go to war with the USA. They are too clever and are already winners of the economic "war".

China knows that as long as US resources remain outrageously expensive, they will win more and more market.

Cheerful Spring

Nettle Soup wrote: »

That's just waffle. To keep China at bay of what?

Japan to nuked!

China will not go to war with the USA. They are too clever and are already winners of the economic "war".

China knows that as long as US resources remain outrageously expensive, they will win more and more market.

Why would Obama pivot a large portion of its armed force to Asia, if China was not a problem ?Did you not notice China is building artificial islands in the South China seas? China is continuing to militarize those islands. Obama warned China there will be war if they build artificial islands near the Philippines. China still claims this territory. They also claim territory close to the East Seas and they are in dispute with Japan. If America attacks North Korea, Japan or South Korea. China could see this as a threat to them and join the war. China still claims Taiwan. There is so many flashpoints and potential new ones that could cause friction in the future.

Ipso

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the information age here.... not there. Their top universities are still using Windows 95 and rarely have external internet access. Their schools follow a very traditional regime that has promoted belief in their leader and government. And while some people might silently question the reality that they've been taught to see.. the majority have accepted it hook-line-sinker.

This isn't like China where people can get a VPN and access facebook. N.Korea has had a news and information blackout for decades.. Total/absolute control. And an indoctrinated population that has been told for generations that the "west" are demons that wish to destroy their history/culture/way of life.

So, you're not going to be able to combat that indoctrination until well after the government has been removed, and even then, I wouldn't be too sure of being able to change the way they view the US or western nations.

Any military action on the ground in N.Korea will be facing a very hostile population.. who have no reason to believe anything we say.

But when they start feeding them, their attitude may change.

Ipso

Ipso wrote: »

But when they start feeding them, their attitude may change.

Just imagine an entire country suffering from "Stockholm syndrome" like symptoms, those NK civilians will not trust the "liberators" at all.

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

Just imagine an entire country suffering from "Stockholm syndrome" like symptoms, those NK civilians will not trust the "liberators" at all.

Not initially no, but cognitive reasoning is powerful stuff.

They have only ever received one stream of information and only from one source, that's all they know.

So when an alternative narrative is presented, the wheels of logic should start churning once again.

Evie Big Troop

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Not initially no, but cognitive reasoning is powerful stuff.

They have only ever received one stream of information and only from one source, that's all they know.

So when an alternative narrative is presented, the wheels of logic should start churning once again.

Not without a programme like the one carried out in post war Germany,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification
Too many people will not want to believe anything other than what they have learned their entire lives.

Just imagine trying to convert a Catholic Priest to become a Presbyterian (or vice versa).

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

Not without a programme like the one carried out in post war Germany,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification
Too many people will not want to believe anything other than what they have learned their entire lives.

Just imagine trying to convert a Catholic Priest to become a Presbyterian (or vice versa).

People would probably happy with the one single tv station on their tv box if that's all they've ever know.

Give them a free HD satellite kit and a bit of time, they'd soon change or expand their views.

The average Karl or Frieda in Germany after WW2 were probably glad it was over with, so they could get back to normalisation.

Geman (and it's derivatives) is the largest genetic group in the US (more so than Ire) as so many regular citizens were glad to settle, in the land of their nations one-time enemy once it all ended, and build a new life.

Nettle Soup

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why would Obama pivot a large portion of its armed force to Asia, if China was not a problem ?Did you not notice China is building artificial islands in the South China seas? China is continuing to militarize those islands. Obama warned China there will be war if they build artificial islands near the Philippines. China still claims this territory. They also claim territory close to the East Seas and they are in dispute with Japan. If America attacks North Korea, Japan or South Korea. China could see this as a threat to them and join the war. China still claims Taiwan. There is so many flashpoints and potential new ones that could cause friction in the future.

Aragh the superpowers are always exerting their sphere of influence. There is nothing new there. How dare China try and do it in the South China Sea? Korea is a long way from the United States too!

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If America attacks North Korea, Japan or South Korea. China could see this as a threat to them and join the war.

Not a notion. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Cui bono? Nobody benefits from a China-USA war. Nobody.

Do you want war or something?

Ipso

Ipso wrote: »

But when they start feeding them, their attitude may change.

May? You want to form a basis for invasion on a "may"?

N.Koreans have been prepared for decades, just in case, were they to lose a war. Their military/militia's have been trained and indoctrinated to fight a guerrilla style war should they be successfully invaded..

TBH this is starting to sound a lot like the invasion of Iraq again. Lots of insights about how the Allied/Coalition will destroy the enemy conventional military, and extremely little realistic planning about what comes afterwards..

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Not a notion. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Cui bono? Nobody benefits from a China-USA war. Nobody.

Do you want war or something?

There is no way that China is going to allow N.Korea to be occupied by US/Coalition forces, or for a united Korea to form... Any suggestion that they would allow that to happen, just shows how little you understand the PRC...

The only way for N.Korea to be removed completely would result in the majority of N.Korea being absorbed into the PRC. For its own protection from western imperialism, of course.

Ipso

Deleted User wrote: »

May? You want to form a basis for invasion on a "may"?

N.Koreans have been prepared for decades, just in case, were they to lose a war. Their military/militia's have been trained and indoctrinated to fight a guerrilla style war should they be successfully invaded..

TBH this is starting to sound a lot like the invasion of Iraq again. Lots of insights about how the Allied/Coalition will destroy the enemy conventional military, and extremely little realistic planning about what comes afterwards..



There is no way that China is going to allow N.Korea to be occupied by US/Coalition forces, or for a united Korea to form... Any suggestion that they would allow that to happen, just shows how little you understand the PRC...

The only way for N.Korea to be removed completely would result in the majority of N.Korea being absorbed into the PRC. For its own protection from western imperialism, of course.

Someone once said that an army marches on their stomachs. The country is a basket case, I really doubt they would be able to mount much of a resistance (not that I think an invasion will happen, but if it does obviously it would be by China).

Ipso

Ipso wrote: »

Someone once said that an army marches on their stomachs. The country is a basket case, I really doubt they would be able to mount much of a resistance (not that I think an invasion will happen, but if it does obviously it would be by China).

Yup.. agreed... however I've also seen the level of poverty that's considered normal in parts of vietnam, cambodia, china etc.. and their ability to survive on a little bit of rice a day. Many Asians are physically much smaller than westerners and can survive on a lot less than we would need... and then throw in the mental conditioning on top of that.

And I suspect they said the similar things about Cambodia and Vietnam being unable to put much of a resistance.

Cheerful Spring

Trump warmongering again. Can this guy just shut up? This what trump actually said "nothing compared to what ultimately will have to happen". The UN sanctions water downed as China and Russia would not accept the other draft proposed also.


Reuters toned down version.
U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that the latest U.N. sanctions on North Korea were only a very small step and nothing compared what would have to happen to deal with the country’s nuclear program.

The U.N. Security Council unanimously voted to boost sanctions on North Korea, with its profitable textile exports now banned and fuel supplies capped, prompting a traditionally defiant threat of retaliation against the United States.

Monday’s decision, triggered by the North’s sixth and largest nuclear test this month, was the ninth such resolution unanimously adopted by the 15-member Security Council since 2006 over North Korea’s ballistic missile and nuclear programs.

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Trump warmongering again. Can this guy just shut up? This what trump actually said "nothing compared to what ultimately will have to happen". The UN sanctions water downed as China and Russia would not accept the other draft proposed also.


Reuters toned down version.
U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that the latest U.N. sanctions on North Korea were only a very small step and nothing compared what would have to happen to deal with the country’s nuclear program.

The U.N. Security Council unanimously voted to boost sanctions on North Korea, with its profitable textile exports now banned and fuel supplies capped, prompting a traditionally defiant threat of retaliation against the United States.

Monday’s decision, triggered by the North’s sixth and largest nuclear test this month, was the ninth such resolution unanimously adopted by the 15-member Security Council since 2006 over North Korea’s ballistic missile and nuclear programs.

Why should he shut up? He's the president and there fore the most powerful man on the planet. NK is going to be removed from the equation, even Putin has said sanctions are useless. Kim crossed a line and that's that.

Cheerful Spring

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Why should he shut up? He's the president and there fore the most powerful man on the planet. NK is going to be removed from the equation, even Putin has said sanctions are useless. Kim crossed a line and that's that.

Tough talk is not going to ease tensions is it? North Korea is not going to back off, when you going to UN and imposing sanctions on them for decades. I surprised how calm they are considering America is trying to ruin them economically.

BillyBobBS

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Why should he shut up? He's the president and there fore the most powerful man on the planet. NK is going to be removed from the equation, even Putin has said sanctions are useless. Kim crossed a line and that's that.

He may be a President of one country on the planet, a powerful one.
But is he able to use the power wisely.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I surprised how calm they are considering America is trying to ruin them economically.

They have nothing economically , nothing to lose from NK unfortunately if they wanted to ruin them they would go after their overseas based shady military businesses

BillyBobBS

Deleted User wrote: »

He may be a President of one country on the planet, a powerful one.
But is he able to use the power wisely.

Well he's doing a heck of a lot better than Obama that's for sure.

Ipso

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