US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Gatling

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I'm sure any modern planes in the US arsenal have more than sufficient jamming and countermeasures to evade North Korea's 50/60s era SAMs.

Absolutely ,

And for some of the big talk about NK air-defenence systems when's the last time they actually shot at an aircraft that could defend its self

BoatMad

Infini wrote: »

To be honest they said they declared war about 7 or 8 times. Nothing happened. They're not living in a fantasy land over there they know full well that they cant give trump any excuse to attack them. Theyre probably unnerved by the fact theyre facing an economic blockade as the price for their nukes while having more and more shows of force made on their doorstep.

It's a flame war for now. The US wont attack first without a serious provocation as they have to consider the safety of Japan and South Korea regardless of the bluster. It also well known Trump is a shytetalker and cant be taken seriously on everything he says. If NK shoots first though especially in international territory it would backfire spetacularly and they know this. They would be dense and insanely stupid to hand the US an excuse to attack.

+1

Manic Moran

Gatling wrote: »

Absolutely ,

And for some of the big talk about NK air-defenence systems when's the last time they actually shot at an aircraft that could defend its self

Fire enough rounds, and anything can knock down almost anything else. Granted, the US did kindof screw up, but note that the Yugoslavs shot down an F-117 Stealth Fighter with an obsolete 1960s era SA-3. There is always the Golden BB.

They'd be very ballsy to try, but if they do, it's presumably with the belief that they can achieve their goal. I am unaware of any torpedoes which missed RoK ships before Cheonan, for example.

LordSutch

North Korea had just moved it's war planes to the east coast (ready for attack/defense) after shoot down vow!

http://news.sky.com/story/trump-declared-war-says-north-korea-claiming-right-to-shoot-down-us-planes-11053222

Gatling

Manic Moran wrote: »

Fire enough rounds, and anything can knock down almost anything else. Granted, the US did kindof screw up, but note that the Yugoslavs shot down an F-117 Stealth Fighter with an obsolete 1960s era SA-3. There is always the Golden BB.

This is very true but it's been noted that NK wasn't able to track the B1B flypast over the weekend which might suggest NK hasn't got the ability to track and target modern aircraft ,

zetalambda

I have a feeling that Kim Dong Gook guy is about to get clobbered sooner rather than later Japans military of 250k people is prevented by Japanese law from combat operations and functions as a peace keeping organization at the moment but Shinzo Abe has just called a snap election and plans to change the law shortly regarding what type of operations the military can partake. It sounds like the Japanese are getting prepared for some action and the Americans are just itching to get started.

Gatling

I wonder what aircraft Kim is moving to help defend his airspace the most advanced aircraft they currently have is the mig 29 , which is very capable aircraft but it's likely been put against F15s one of if not the best air superiority aircraft of the last 40 years,
Kim's got other older Migs but I get the feeling they wouldn't be long in been removed fairly quickly .
Unless we suddenly see other countries aircraft with NK markings ,
It could well be a one sided fight

ilkhanid

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

North Korea outmatches US army by least 10 to 1 with soldiers. North Korea can launch an invasion with 10 million men at the very beginning, America and South Korea roughly only have 700,000 men, the majority of which are South Korean. It will take months for the US army and allies to muster enough troops to counter attack.

Finally! And yet we're told that the exercises of the puny (by comparison) South Korean/USA military constitute a threat to North Korea in the eyes of the Kim regime.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It not hard to destroy vehicles travelling on an open road in a desert area. North Korea is like Vietnam on steroids. The army lives underground and has prepared it's facilities for air bombardment from the air. Even the Americans can not continue bombing all day.

The army may live underground (supposedly) but it has to put it's head over ground to fight.

BoatMad wrote: »

The issue is when you create a non-functioning country, what do you do, its at that point that the US military ( and all militaries) show their inherent weakness. That is , you cant " nation build " from a Humvee
Conquest has to be followed by " colonisation " , the brits performed it extremely well for a few hundred years

Say what you like about the British, they-usually-learned a lot about the countries they conquered. Sometimes they didn't even need to conquer them. They were canny enough to make allies of some groups and play one faction off against others. The USA went into Iraq unprepared. I don't know if the legend that says that Bush jnr. didn't even know the difference between Sunni and Shia is really true, but the US army didn't act as if they knew the undercurrents and dynamics of Iraqi ethnicity and politics. They were still thinking in terms of Germany and Japan, ethnically homogeneous states where once the regime was toppled, the population fell into line.

RobbingBandit

Great appeasement idea, give Kim Mickey Mouse and Disney on Ice for 5 years for free.

BoatMad

Say what you like about the British, they-usually-learned a lot about the countries they conquered. Sometimes they didn't even need to conquer them. They were canny enough to make allies of some groups and play one faction off against others. The USA went into Iraq unprepared. I don't know if the legend that says that Bush jnr. didn't even know the difference between Sunni and Shia is really true, but the US army didn't act as if they knew the undercurrents and dynamics of Iraqi ethnicity and politics. They were still thinking in terms of Germany and Japan, ethnically homogeneous states where once the regime was toppled, the population fell into line.

I think the Us Army knew full well the clusterfu&k that Iraq would become , but they were out manoeuvred by Rumdfeld and the " hawks" , that understood absolutely nothing about the situation ( or didn't care )

I dont think the military will be so easily compliant this time around.

Creative83

It's a bit rich that China & Russia are saying that there "Will be no winners"...

Of course there will be winners... the Korean people under a united Korea which would've happened previously had the Chinese kept their noses out in the 50's. The Chinese are the ones to blame for the Kim despots since.

BoatMad

mini_Sapphire wrote: »

It's a bit rich that China & Russia are saying that there "Will be no winners"...

Of course there will be winners... the Korean people under a united Korea which would've happened previously had the Chinese kept their noses out in the 50's. The Chinese are the ones to blame for the Kim despots since.

Well had the US stayed out , Korea would have been one country too

McMurphy

BoatMad wrote: »

Well had the US stayed out , Korea would have been one country too

Creative83

BoatMad wrote: »

Well had the US stayed out , Korea would have been one country too

The US?... it was a UN mission in which the US took a lead role.

The Kims would have had the whole peninsula under their barbaric rule if the UN hadn't of intervened. So what's your point?

BoatMad

mini_Sapphire wrote: »

The US?... it was a UN mission in which the US took a lead role.

The Kims would have had the whole peninsula under their barbaric rule if the UN hadn't of intervened. So what's your point?

Of course it was the UN , all those Un troops , air bombardments , bombers etc. Of course the UN

Perhaps you've recently arrived from another planet ?

" barbaric rule " , hmmmm let's see how many " barbaric " rulers , US foreign policy and military activity has propped up , Assad, the shah, chile, Pakistan, turkeys junta , and that's what comes to mind immediately

ohnonotgmail

BoatMad wrote: »

Of course it was the UN , all those Un troops , air bombardments , bombers etc. Of course the UN

Perhaps you've recently arrived from another planet ?

" barbaric rule " , hmmmm let's see how many " barbaric " rulers , US foreign policy and military activity has propped up , Assad, the shah, chile, Pakistan, turkeys junta , and that's what comes to mind immediately

all those british, australian,belgian, Canadian, Colombian, Ethiopian, French, Greek, Luxembourgian, dutch, New Zealand, philipino, South African , Thai, Turkish ,Danish, Indian, Norwegian and Swedish troops musty have been there on holiday.

BoatMad

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

all those british, australian,belgian, Canadian, Colombian, Ethiopian, French, Greek, Luxembourgian, dutch, New Zealand, philipino, South African , Thai, Turkish ,Danish, Indian, Norwegian and Swedish troops musty have been there on holiday.

Oh please this nonsense hardly deserves debate , the US as it regularly does has used the fig Leaf of the UN to provide moral authority to engage in warfare, mind you it now seems to have abandoned that fig leaf.

Over 330, 000 US personnel served , 40.000 died and 100, 000 were wounded

The other unit forces were a token , by comparison, a drop in the bucket , The US had overall command

The Korean way was a simple proxy fight between the US and communism. What ever fig Leaf the UN provided says more about the UN Then anything else.

ohnonotgmail

BoatMad wrote: »

Oh please this nonsense hardly deserves debate , the US as it regularly does has used the fig Leaf of the UN to provide moral authority to engage in warfare, mind you it now seems to have abandoned that fig leaf.

Over 330, 000 US personnel served , 40.000 died and 100, 000 were wounded

The other unit forces were a token , by comparison, a drop in the bucket , The US had overall command

The Korean way was a simple proxy fight between the US and communism. What ever fig Leaf the UN provided says more about the UN Then anything else.

continue to ignore history as you see fit.

BoatMad

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

continue to ignore history as you see fit.

I, at least, don't sugar coat it by pretending to believe nonsense

kona

BoatMad wrote: »

I, at least, don't sugar coat it by pretending to believe nonsense

Lol your take on history is amazing. Supposethe earth is flat too and the americans are controlling weather with chemtrails.

ohnonotgmail

BoatMad wrote: »

I, at least, don't sugar coat it by pretending to believe nonsense

i have sugarcoated nothing. just stated facts. facts that you prefer to ignore.

BoatMad

kona wrote: »

Lol your take on history is amazing. Supposethe earth is flat too and the americans are controlling weather with chemtrails.

To serously suggest that the Korean War was a well intentioned UN initiative to prevent the fall of the Republic of Korea without accepting the overriding conflict between the US and communism is naive and blind.

Had the US no interest in the bigger picture Korea would have been overrun. But the us was at that time engaged in many places in halting the spread of communism ( as it believed )

It provided the huge bulk of the men and materiel for the Korean War , it provided the command,

The US has never acted for the greater good and its naive to suggest it ever will ( nor have I a problem with US self interest ) thE US acts to further its own interests. if along the way , that means we all get a McDonslds , well sure that's grand.

BoatMad

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i have sugarcoated nothing. just stated facts. facts that you prefer to ignore.

You suggest that an " allied " force of around 19,000 in the face of 330,000 US troops was more then " tokenism"

The us lost more men that twice the involvement of other allied forces.

it was a us war carried on in proxy against communism. The involvement of thE UN was to provide a fig Leaf of rrspeability and was used again by Geogre senior etc

At least now the US is more truthful and pays the UN mere lip service

Infini

Doesnt matter when you see how SK turned out compared to the craphole of a concentration camp the North became its a moot point.

The only real reason against a war is the damage SK and Japan would suffer but so long as NK doesnt shoot first or fire a Nuke armed ICBM at the states or Japan little will happen as theyll keep sanctions going as the price for them.

BoatMad

The only real reason against a war is the damage SK and Japan would suffer but so long as NK doesnt shoot first or fire a Nuke armed ICBM at the states or Japan little will happen as theyll keep sanctions going as the price for them.

yes of course and NK knows this.

A Little Pony

Someone made the claim that North Korea could gather over 10 million soldiers. How would they feed them? How would they cloth them and arm them? Fuel? Water? Transporting? Do people not think about these things before they make such comments?

Even Alexander the Great wouldn't have invaded Persia if his father hadn't created the greatest army in the ancient world at that time and had the league of Corinth. Strategy and logistics matter a lot in military campaigns.

kona

BoatMad wrote: »

To serously suggest that the Korean War was a well intentioned UN initiative to prevent the fall of the Republic of Korea without accepting the overriding conflict between the US and communism is naive and blind.

Had the US no interest in the bigger picture Korea would have been overrun. But the us was at that time engaged in many places in halting the spread of communism ( as it believed )

It provided the huge bulk of the men and materiel for the Korean War , it provided the command,

The US has never acted for the greater good and its naive to suggest it ever will ( nor have I a problem with US self interest ) thE US acts to further its own interests. if along the way , that means we all get a McDonslds , well sure that's grand.

I think you need to read a book pal, north korea started the war after being told not to by stalin and the chinese, because the big bad americans stated that asian states would have to sort themselves out against the communist threat, and the north koreans took advantage of this. Then US and UN were forced to intervene. It was nearly all she wrote then for north korea.
The only reason that there was a ceasefire and a north korea today is because of the reluctant direct involvment of ussr and china on north koreas side.

Also the war never ended so ive no idea what relevence "declaring war " has in this instance.

Gatling

A Little Pony wrote: »

Someone made the claim that North Korea could gather over 10 million soldiers. How would they feed them? How would they cloth them and arm them? Fuel? Water? Transporting?

Do people not think about these things before they make such comments?

No they don't

Creative83

BoatMad wrote: »

" barbaric rule " , hmmmm let's see how many " barbaric " rulers , US foreign policy and military activity has propped up , Assad, the shah, chile, Pakistan, turkeys junta , and that's what comes to mind immediately

What has this got to do with North Korea??

Curly Judge

mini_Sapphire wrote: »

The US?... it was a UN mission in which the US took a lead role.

The Kims would have had the whole peninsula under their barbaric rule if the UN hadn't of intervened. So what's your point?

BoatmMan's point is that he likes Commies