US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

A Little Pony

Gringo180 wrote: »

cnocbui wrote: »

Not very well informed, are you?





Poverty is a very complex topic.  The US expenditure on it's military isn't one of the causative factors and the redirection of those funds couldn't eradicate it either as a huge proportion of western aid is already diverted to and by corrupt locals.  You would just be fattening the pigs even more.

I remember the same criticisms for the expenditure on the Apollo program.



Two or three nukes do not a nuclear winter make, being probably all it would take to snuff out NKs nuclear aspirations.  it would take thousands of nukes to create a nuclear winter.

Oh spare me the pitiful propaganda.

If North Korea where going to strike first they would of done so already after that fool Donald Trumps comments. He basically said he would destroy there country (again).

2 or 3 nukes? Once the North is hit with Nuclear weapons they will unleash there own on the South and Japan and eho knows they couod even hit the west coast of the US mainland. Millions will be incinerated but I suppose war war is better than jaw jaw to some of the warmongers on here that think they will be safe from the comfort of behind there keyboards.

They wouldn't get them off the ground never mind hit South Korea. North Korea is doomed.

Cheerful Spring

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Defector says North Korean economy won't last another 12 months and that many people are going to die (of starvation presumably). Worth reading.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/north-koreas-economy-may-not-survive-another-year-defector-says.html

If true chances of a war rise. He got nothing to lose.

Cheerful Spring

North Korea's deputy U.N. ambassador warned Monday that the situation on the Korean peninsula "has reached the touch-and-go point and a nuclear war may break out any moment."

Kim In Ryong told the U.N. General Assembly's disarmament committee that North Korea is the only country in the world that has been subjected to "such an extreme and direct nuclear threat" from the United States since the 1970s — and said the country has the right to possess nuclear weapons in self-defense.


This year, Kim said, North Korea completed its "state nuclear force and thus became the full-fledged nuclear power which possesses the delivery means of various ranges, including the atomic bomb, H-bomb and intercontinental ballistic rockets."

"The entire U.S. mainland is within our firing range and if the U.S. dares to invade our sacred territory even an inch it will not escape our severe punishment in any part of the globe," he warned.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-korea-says-nuclear-war-may-break-moment-225216451.html

fxotoole

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

North Korea's deputy U.N. ambassador warned Monday that the situation on the Korean peninsula "has reached the touch-and-go point and a nuclear war may break out any moment."

Kim In Ryong told the U.N. General Assembly's disarmament committee that North Korea is the only country in the world that has been subjected to "such an extreme and direct nuclear threat" from the United States since the 1970s — and said the country has the right to possess nuclear weapons in self-defense.


This year, Kim said, North Korea completed its "state nuclear force and thus became the full-fledged nuclear power which possesses the delivery means of various ranges, including the atomic bomb, H-bomb and intercontinental ballistic rockets."

"The entire U.S. mainland is within our firing range and if the U.S. dares to invade our sacred territory even an inch it will not escape our severe punishment in any part of the globe," he warned.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-korea-says-nuclear-war-may-break-moment-225216451.html

More pointless rhetoric. Interesting to note though, that he basically says NK will only attack if USA invade. He's saying outright that they're not going to strike first, despite what some posters here are hoping for.

MadYaker

If only he had a twitter account :pac: he's a spineless windbag just like Trump. It's all talk, neither of them actually want a war.

murphthesmurf

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Vapid hatred for its own sake, or more commonly as a means to appear trendy or to give the impression that one is in possession of some kind of sophisticated understanding of geopolitics (which tends not to be the case), is indeed a very bad thing.

In politics, as in society generally, the options are not 'good' or 'bad' the options are 'least worst' and 'worst' - the kind of open ended contempt I frequently see for the USA tends to be from people who cannot accept that fundamental truth. Moreover they tend to be angry at the inability of the US and the wider world to overnight become a model of a perfect society that can do no wrong. Idealism might lead one to despise US policy but realism should take one back to at-least examining it cynically.

This makes me think back a year or so when the crisis in Syria was at its height. Civilians being massacred by their own government as well as ISIS. Commentators on Newstalk at the time were discussing what could be done and were questioning the lack of action by the likes of the USA and Britain. Most other days they discuss how the likes of the USA and Britain have waged illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was baffled by the commentary, they were dammed if they do dammed if they don't. The presenters themselves were saying that the only way the killing can be stopped is by sending in ground troops. Yet I don't remember any of them lobbying their local TD to send any Irish troops into this 'ground assault'. Just somebody elses sons and daughters, then in 12 months time they can discuss how that too was an illegal war and the place is still no better.

murphthesmurf

MadYaker wrote: »

If only he had a twitter account :pac: he's a spineless windbag just like Trump. It's all talk, neither of them actually want a war.

Kym is a fool, but he is not the kind of fool that thinks he can defeat the most powerful army on Earth and it's allies. He also knows that the USA will avoid war at all cost due to the civilian casualties and the damage his army will do to the south, the USA's ally. He will push them as far as he can, but I can't see him ever giving that final push unless all else is lost and he is facing death himself from his own generals.

Curly Judge

[QUOTE=A Little Pony;105001144]They wouldn't get them off the ground never mind hit South Korea. North Korea is doomed.[/QUOTE]

How would that work.....exactly?

SeanW

fxotoole wrote: »

More pointless rhetoric. Interesting to note though, that he basically says NK will only attack if USA invade. He's saying outright that they're not going to strike first, despite what some posters here are hoping for.

And you believe them?

You need to remember that North Korea is Communist, and as such, not only its regime but those of its fellow travelers in Communism have been responsible for most of the genocide, human rights violations and territorial aggression in modern history. As bad as some people here think the U.S. is, Communism is provably worse, many times over.

South Korea, Japan and the US should take nothing North Korea says at face value and assume the worst at least in regards to their intentions. History has shown that "we just want to be left alone" does not work in relations with Communist hellholes. If you think it does, I would encourage you to review the history of Communism in the Baltic States:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x440cUS4uTU

(Warning, the above has some gruesome scenes).
The Soviet Union did the same thing to the people of Ukraine, the Chinese are doing similar things today to the people of Tibet and East Turkestan.

Why would the people of South Korea, or anywhere else that is threatened by NK, not assume that NK would do the same to them given the chance?

When it comes to Communism, you have three choices. Contain it, destroy it, surrender to it. That's it.

Curly Judge

SeanW wrote: »

And you believe them?

You need to remember that North Korea is Communist, and as such, not only its regime but those of its fellow travelers in Communism have been responsible for most of the genocide, human rights violations and territorial aggression in modern history. As bad as some people here think the U.S. is, Communism is provably worse, many times over.

South Korea, Japan and the US should take nothing North Korea says at face value and assume the worst at least in regards to their intentions. History has shown that "we just want to be left alone" does not work in relations with Communist hellholes. If you think it does, I would encourage you to review the history of Communism in the Baltic States:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x440cUS4uTU

(Warning, the above has some gruesome scenes).
The Soviet Union did the same thing to the people of Ukraine, the Chinese are doing similar things today to the people of Tibet and East Turkestan.

Why would the people of South Korea, or anywhere else that is threatened by NK, not assume that NK would do the same to them given the chance?

When it comes to Communism, you have three choices. Contain it, destroy it, surrender to it. That's it.

Bravo!

Elmer Blooker

I would encourage you to review the history of Communism in the Baltic States:

Shouldn't this be in the history or military forum?

Anyhow the Soviet Union and communism is long gone and not coming back, we should be more concerned by the present and not the past and the rise of neo-Nazism in the Baltic Republics which is not only censored and covered up by our "free" media but also tolerated by the EU. Shame on Germany in particular who are supporting neo-Nazism by looking the other way and refusing to condemn it!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/neo-nazis-in-baltics-tolerated-by-eu-jewish-lobby-says-1.971810
It wasn't the communists who rounded up and murdered millions of Jews.

4068ac1elhodqr

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Shouldn't this be in the history or military forum?

Anyhow the Soviet Union and communism is long gone and not coming back, we should be more concerned by the present and not the past and the rise of neo-Nazism in the Baltic Republics which is not only censored and covered up by our "free" media but also tolerated by the EU. Shame on Germany in particular who are supporting neo-Nazism by looking the other way and refusing to condemn it!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/neo-nazis-in-baltics-tolerated-by-eu-jewish-lobby-says-1.971810
It wasn't the communists who rounded up and murdered millions of Jews.

Shouldn't that post be in the history forum ^^^

The Eastern Baltic fringe states will always be a less lawless place than Western EU, but the real rise of 'nationalism' is in-fact in central Europe, e.g. Austria, Italy, France. Thanks actually to Germany's perhaps 'over-kind' offer to offer a new home and passage to circa 1m refugees/immigrants. And it's not certainly Jews, that any backlash will be directed upon this time.

Perhaps it's Germany's over-kind action that will backfire, and cause the break-up of the EU. e.g. Brexit happened due to one primary factor (immigration).

--

Back on topic of NK, many think Kim will be replaced Dec/Jan. China's patience is wearing thin, and the may well have to just push the big lad off the plank.

MadYaker

murphthesmurf wrote: »

This makes me think back a year or so when the crisis in Syria was at its height. Civilians being massacred by their own government as well as ISIS. Commentators on Newstalk at the time were discussing what could be done and were questioning the lack of action by the likes of the USA and Britain. Most other days they discuss how the likes of the USA and Britain have waged illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was baffled by the commentary, they were dammed if they do dammed if they don't. The presenters themselves were saying that the only way the killing can be stopped is by sending in ground troops. Yet I don't remember any of them lobbying their local TD to send any Irish troops into this 'ground assault'. Just somebody elses sons and daughters, then in 12 months time they can discuss how that too was an illegal war and the place is still no better.

I agree but the USA and Britian, in their attempt to remove Assad, put themselves in that no win situation by contributing weapons and money to the rebel groups who eventually went on to form ISIS.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Shouldn't this be in the history or military forum?

Anyhow the Soviet Union and communism is long gone and not coming back, we should be more concerned by the present and not the past

Still in existence just ask ,NK ,china , Ukraine

Gatling

MadYaker wrote: »

I agree but the USA and Britian, in their attempt to remove Assad, put themselves in that no win situation by contributing weapons and money to the rebel groups who eventually went on to form ISIS.

No Isis formed after the second Iraq war

They may have appeared from Syria as Isis but they were already carrying out atroscities before Assad turned on his own population,
Several groups merged with Isis half way through ,
But given the option help us fight Assad or we kill you and Assad and put our brand of government in place .

cnocbui

MadYaker wrote: »

I agree but the USA and Britian, in their attempt to remove Assad, put themselves in that no win situation by contributing weapons and money to the rebel groups who eventually went on to form ISIS.

That so?

Even with the influx of thousands of foreign fighters, almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers, including the members of its shadowy military and security committees, and the majority of its emirs and princes, according to Iraqis, Syrians and analysts who study the group.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html

aloyisious

It would seem that or now anyway, the imminent threat of war between the NK and US Administrations is at a standstill, an involuntary truce has broken out. I hope Don keeps on being immersed in Washington and NK in its Chinese muzzle.

MadYaker

Don is too busy insulting the families of dead soilders at the moment. I'm sure he'll get back to teasing Kim on twitter next week, after a weekend of golf of course.

4068ac1elhodqr

The NK lads have only gone and asked the Aussies to help against Donald.
The letter was addressed to the Australian parliament from the Foreign Affairs Committee of the North Korean People’s Assembly.

This only after offering to wipe out 'the land down under' not so long ago (along with several others).
Either they be smokin', having a laf' or simply so malnourished that they have become severely unwise.

fxotoole

aloyisious wrote: »

It would seem that or now anyway, the imminent threat of war between the NK and US Administrations is at a standstill, an involuntary truce has broken out. I hope Don keeps on being immersed in Washington and NK in its Chinese muzzle.

Like I said. This was never going to turn into WWIII

Cheerful Spring

CIA Director Mike Pompeo said Thursday that North Korea is months away from perfecting its nuclear weapons capabilities.

"They are close enough now in their capabilities that from a U.S. policy perspective we ought to behave as if we are on the cusp of them achieving" their objective of being able to strike the United States, Pompeo told a national security forum in Washington.

"They are so far along in that, it's now a matter of thinking about how do you stop the final step."

But he said there's a difference between having the ability to fire a single nuclear missile and the capability of producing large amounts of fissile material and developing an arsenal of such weapons.

Speaking later at the same event, National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster said, "We are in a race to resolve this short of military action."

"We are not out of time," he told the forum, organized by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies think tank. "But we are running out of time."


Seems to me the only reason war has not started North Korea has not demonstrated they can hit the United States with a nuclear weapon. The calculation right now it's only bluster by North Korea.When North Korea capability to hit America is shown off i guess we see military action then?

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

CIA Director Mike Pompeo said Thursday that North Korea is months away from perfecting its nuclear weapons capabilities.

"They are close enough now in their capabilities that from a U.S. policy perspective we ought to behave as if we are on the cusp of them achieving" their objective of being able to strike the United States, Pompeo told a national security forum in Washington.

"They are so far along in that, it's now a matter of thinking about how do you stop the final step."

But he said there's a difference between having the ability to fire a single nuclear missile and the capability of producing large amounts of fissile material and developing an arsenal of such weapons.

Speaking later at the same event, National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster said, "We are in a race to resolve this short of military action."

"We are not out of time," he told the forum, organized by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies think tank. "But we are running out of time."


Seems to me the only reason war has not started North Korea has not demonstrated they can hit the United States with a nuclear weapon. The calculation right now it's only bluster by North Korea.When North Korea capability to hit America is shown off i guess we see military action then?

Trump has talked a good game thus far and backed Fat Boy into a corner. He has been pro active on the mess talk show Obama left behind.

At this stage i think Kim knows if he develops his missile technology any further he's not going to see another 5 course dinner ever again.

Outstanding stuff from president Trump thus far but we'll see how it plays out over the next few months.

archer22

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

The NK lads have only gone and asked the Aussies to help against Donald.
The letter was addressed to the Australian parliament from the Foreign Affairs Committee of the North Korean People’s Assembly.

This only after offering to wipe out 'the land down under' not so long ago (along with several others).
Either they be smokin', having a laf' or simply so malnourished that they have become severely unwise.

Nothing unwise about trying to sow division in the opposition camp...it's what the Dotard regime has also been trying to do with North Korea and China.

4068ac1elhodqr

archer22 wrote: »

Nothing unwise about trying to sow division in the opposition camp...

Very unwise, and actually desperate and embarrassing.

Aussie PM: "The 'rant' shows that sanctions are working"

archer22

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Very unwise, and actually desperate and embarrassing.

Aussie PM: "The 'rant' shows that sanctions are working"

What "sanctions"?...do you really believe the Chinese are imposing sanctions on their ally to please the foreign power that is provoking them in the South China Sea...oh dear you don't understand the Chinese.
They follow Sun Tzu's teachings..."hide your strength".....

Timberrrrrrrr

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Trump has talked a good game thus far and backed Fat Boy into a corner. He has been pro active on the mess talk show Obama left behind.

At this stage i think Kim knows if he develops his missile technology any further he's not going to see another 5 course dinner ever again.

Outstanding stuff from president Trump thus far but we'll see how it plays out over the next few months.

Utter tripe :rolleyes:

cnocbui

archer22 wrote: »

What "sanctions"?...do you really believe the Chinese are imposing sanctions on their ally to please the foreign power that is provoking them in the South China Sea...oh dear you don't understand the Chinese.
They follow Sun Tzu's teachings..."hide your strength".....

I agree. I think the US should announce as policy that any launch of missiles at the US from North Korea would result in retaliatory strikes against not just NK, but every major military target in China also, just to let them know they aren't fooled as to the real relationship between NK and China.

Timberrrrrrrr

cnocbui wrote: »

I agree. I think the US should announce as policy that any launch of missiles at the US from North Korea would result in retaliatory strikes against not just NK, but every major military target in China also, just to let them know they aren't fooled as to the real relationship between NK and China.

So threaten China with war if thier neighbour does something? You really think this would happen or be a good idea? Seriously.....i wonder what planet some of you live on sometimes.

MadYaker

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Trump has talked a good game thus far and backed Fat Boy into a corner. He has been pro active on the mess talk show Obama left behind.

At this stage i think Kim knows if he develops his missile technology any further he's not going to see another 5 course dinner ever again.

Outstanding stuff from president Trump thus far but we'll see how it plays out over the next few months.

Are you living in the same reality as the rest of us? The only thing Trump has done is insult Kim Jong Un on twitter and undermine his seretary of state who has been pushing for a peaceful solution. Or are you just trolling?

cnocbui

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So threaten China with war if thier neighbour does something? You really think this would happen or be a good idea? Seriously.....i wonder what planet some of you live on sometimes.

So how exactly did NK get both nuclear weapons and ICBM technologies in a matter of a couple of years? Don't suppose they had any help. You are so naive. This is China's game.