US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Chrongen

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday the United States would move to “phase two” if sanctions against North Korea did not work, although he did not specify what that would mean.

“I don’t think I‘m going to exactly play that card. But we’ll have to see. If the sanctions don’t work, we’ll have to go phase two,” Trump told reporters.

“Phase two may be a very rough thing, may be very, very unfortunate for the world. But hopefully, the sanctions will work.”

How in hell are sanctions going to work they have not worked for decades? After the Olympics are over and Kim started testing again be prepared the US is probably going to try to take out military sites.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-trump/u-s-to-move-to-phase-2-if-north-korea-sanctions-dont-work-trump-idUSKCN1G72KU

And so it goes.

The US don't want their South Korean colony to actually have any normalising of relations with their countrymen north.

The last thing that the US want is a unified Korea....even if that unified Korea just wnt together on their way and ate Kim-Chi together and practiced Tae Kwon Do.

The US wants South Korea to always be their bitch.

You could even see it at the Winter Olympics.
Nasty, childish, ugly behaviour from US political representatives.

So ugly, ignorant, and uncouth.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Quite easy actually ,

I've been rolling this over in my head and asking others and wracking my brains but I have absolutely no idea how a missile, when launched, could be identified as having a nuclear warhead or multiple independent nuclear and decoy warheads or even a plastic teddy bear in the delivery module.

How exactly can that be determined?

Does a missile, once launched, with a nuclear give off markers? Does it announce "I am Uranium 235, guys" ?

So how quite easy IS it?

Manic Moran

Near as I can tell, it's only down to the trajectory. They can test the range of an ICBM by an arc which goes more 'up' than 'sideways', for example. If they can figure out the trajectory, they can then figure out the likely range that the rocket motor will provide, since they know how much power for how long would be provided to result in the high arc.

As a result, nobody in their right mind will test a missile which arcs in a trajectory which would land in another country. It could lead to very unfortunate repercussions, especially if the missile is intercepted and the warhead falls into the sea and cannot be recovered for inspection.

aloyisious

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday the United States would move to “phase two” if sanctions against North Korea did not work, although he did not specify what that would mean.

“I don’t think I‘m going to exactly play that card. But we’ll have to see. If the sanctions don’t work, we’ll have to go phase two,” Trump told reporters.

“Phase two may be a very rough thing, may be very, very unfortunate for the world. But hopefully, the sanctions will work.”

How in hell are sanctions going to work they have not worked for decades? After the Olympics are over and Kim started testing again be prepared the US is probably going to try to take out military sites.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-trump/u-s-to-move-to-phase-2-if-north-korea-sanctions-dont-work-trump-idUSKCN1G72KU

From what's been released of US plans courtesy of Don today, phase 2 is to stop, search [and maybe seize possession of] ships which are seen as being likely UN sanction busters. There's bound to be shouting of interruption of free shipping movement on the high seas/international waters, maybe even piratical action by the US. The roughness may be use of warship weaponry on what will be claimed to be law-abiding merchantile marine vessels.

Cheerful Spring

Apparently, North Korea is looking for talks now. Trump strategy work?

The White House said any talks with North Korea must lead to an end to its nuclear program after senior officials from Pyongyang visiting South Korea said on Sunday their government was open to talks with the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-2018-northkorea-sanctions/white-house-talks-with-north-korea-must-lead-to-ending-nuclear-program-idUSKCN1G907Q

Great if they can sort this out, but it highly unlikely the North will give up its Nuclear program. Gaddafi did that and he got shafted big time. I don't know if the North playing for time, feeling the squeeze of sanctions?I think a war was always likely if the North did stop what it was doing. Have to see what they are willing to give up though for easing of sanctions. America seems to be hell-bent on denuclearization first.

Cheerful Spring

aloyisious wrote: »

From what's been released of US plans courtesy of Don today, phase 2 is to stop, search [and maybe seize possession of] ships which are seen as being likely UN sanction busters. There's bound to be shouting of interruption of free shipping movement on the high seas/international waters, maybe even piratical action by the US. The roughness may be use of warship weaponry on what will be claimed to be law-abiding merchantile marine vessels.

This a mild version of a blockade of North Korea. The United States was engaging with Asian allies to enforce it.

Cheerful Spring

Chrongen wrote: »

Well, how?

You're the expert or it's quite easy actually.

How can any missile from launch be determined as having a nuclear payload?

They can determine it's an ICBM by its size and nose cone and if flies high enough. North Korea has not tested a Nuclear device above ground, in the air, or above the Ocean yet. If North Korea had- this war would have started months ago. They still think NK is in its testing phase with the reentry vehicle and they're not there yet. They have not done above ground test so they may be right on this or more logical reason the North knows this would cause a war to break out.

Cheerful Spring

cnocbui wrote: »

You are so full of it.

Bin laden is on tape taking credit for it and boasting about it.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-bin-laden-911-confession-13506877

Audio tapes are meaningless they can be tampered with. Bin Laden who had a connection with the CIA for half a decade?. And his family are friends with the Bush family for over twenty years. For a guy who supposedly hates everything America stands for, he never once mentions the bond his family has with the Bush family? Even his capture is suspicious, we got a video of a man with his back turned to the camera watching 9/11 screenshot on a small TV? Is there no video taken of his face? The video looks staged for the public to watch.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Audio tapes are meaningless they can be tampered with. Bin Laden who had a connection with the CIA for half a decade?. And his family are friends with the Bush family for over twenty years. For a guy who supposedly hates everything America stands for, he never once mentions the bond his family has with the Bush family? Even his capture is suspicious, we got a video of a man with his back turned to the camera watching 9/11 screenshot on a small TV? Is there no video taken of his face? The video looks staged for the public to watch.

So where did he talk about his CIA and bush friendship

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

So where did he talk about his CIA and bush friendship

Bin Laden had contact with the CIA during the Mujahideen war in Afghanistan fighting against the Soviets. There no evidence Bin Laden ever broke off contact with Americans after the Soviets pulled out. America is allied with Sunni powers in the region, so never made sense for Bin Laden to go to war against America, over nothing. American was allied with Saudi Arabia bin laden country of birth. The bin Laden family got rich living in Saudi Arabia.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Bin Laden had contact with the CIA during the Mujahideen war in Afghanistan fighting against the Soviets. There no evidence Bin Laden ever broke off contact with Americans after the Soviets pulled out. America is allied with Sunni powers in the region, so never made sense for Bin Laden to go to war against America, over nothing. American was allied with Saudi Arabia bin laden country of birth. The bin Laden family got rich living in Saudi Arabia.

So the CIA supposedly bank rolled ,armer and trained despite him been a very wealthy Arab who no connections to the CIA or mujhadeen indigenous fighters supported by the US ,
And no paper trail or any evidence to prove it ,but yet claim videos and audio are fakes

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

So the CIA supposedly bank rolled ,armer and trained despite him been a very wealthy Arab who no connections to the CIA or mujhadeen indigenous fighters supported by the US ,
And no paper trail or any evidence to prove it ,but yet claim videos and audio are fakes

CIA provided the weapons for the mujahideen. Their pictures of CIA guys meeting the Mujhadeen at their camps and handing over stinger anti-aircraft missiles, that were later be used to knock Soviet gunships out of the air. CIA also provided machine guns and ammunition. The Saudis, not the CIA funded the Mujahideen campaign against the Soviets ( CIA and Saudis worked together to defeat the Soviets) Bin Laden was a Saudi funded warrior maybe even an agent for them who fought in Afghanistan. I not buying he just turned on his friends for no reason, well an explanation that made sense.The fact Saudi Arabia was never brought up in conversation after the attacks took place is suspicious ( Iraq was?) If I remember correctly 15/ of 19 hijackers are Saudi recruits none of them is born in Afghanistan or Iraq.

monty_python

Dudes, this thread is about North Korea
Not bin laden or 911

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

CIA provided the weapons for the mujahideen. Their pictures of CIA guys meeting the Mujhadeen at their camps and handing over stinger anti-aircraft missiles, that were later be used to knock Soviet gunships out of the air. CIA also provided machine guns and ammunition. The Saudis, not the CIA funded the Mujahideen campaign against the Soviets ( CIA and Saudis worked together to defeat the Soviets) Bin Laden was a Saudi funded warrior maybe even an agent for them who fought in Afghanistan. I not buying he just turned on his friends for no reason, well an explanation that made sense.The fact Saudi Arabia was never brought up in conversation after the attacks took place is suspicious ( Iraq was?) If I remember correctly 15/ of 19 hijackers are Saudi recruits none of them is born in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Ahhh see that's where you went wrong ,

The US armed the mujhadeen yes and yes in return they gave the mighty russia a kicking ,
But there is zero evidence they had anything to to do with the foreign Arabs who had there own funds and agenda ,
So you took a Saudi in Afghanistan and a few Americans in Afghanistan ,
And got CIA and bin Laden in bed together

Ipso

Didn't most of the US money flow through Pakistani intelligence?
What was the US using some fighters as a proxy has now turned into the US created the Taliban and Bin Laden.

monty_python

https://www.google.ae/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/944379/

Strong words from a strong man

cnocbui

monty_python wrote: »

https://www.google.ae/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/944379/

Strong words from a strong man

Another Russian F* Tard in a long line of Russian F* Tards, I'm so impressed.

That's it Vlad, kick of Cold War Mk II. The last time you bellicose war mongers tried that we got to the Star Wars stage and Russia went bankrupt trying to compete and effectively collapsed.

Saying Russians never learn is an understatement - One dipsh dictator after another, ad infinitum.

Cheerful Spring

The Trump administration is considering military action against North Korea if the rogue regime successfully builds a nuclear missile capable of hitting the United States, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the administration's latest thinking. Senior national security officials believe a nuclear armed Pyongyang represents an unacceptable risk to the US.

Beyond the missile threat to the US homeland, the national security officials pushing for military action believe that if North Korea becomes a full nuclear power, it will proliferate, potentially sharing nuclear and missile technology with states such as Iran, Pakistan and Libya, and non-state actors.
Such a prospect would increase the nuclear threat to US interests. That possibility, according to these officials, is ultimately more dangerous to the US and the region than conventional military action to thwart Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions, despite the risk of significant civilian and military casualties in such a conflict.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/01/politics/north-korea-trump-nuclear-missile-threat-red-line/index.html

Hande hoche!

Would have thought the Libyans would be more concerned with their ongoing civil war than cultivating a nuclear programme. Shades of 2003 all the same.

Cheerful Spring

I post this here as it could be relevant for the region. The bill was passed by Congress and only needs Trump approval signature. Will he sign it?

China warned Taiwan on Friday it would only get burnt if it sought to rely on foreigners, adding to warnings from state media the country could go to war over Taiwan if the United States passes into law a bill promoting closer U.S. ties.

The legislation, which only needs President Donald Trump’s signature to become law, says it should be U.S. policy to allow officials at all levels to travel to Taiwan to meet their Taiwanese counterparts, permit high-level Taiwanese officials to enter the United States“under respectful conditions” and meet with U.S. officials.

Beijing considers democratic Taiwan to be a wayward province and integral part of“one China”, ineligible for state-to-state relations, and has never renounced the use of force to bring the island under its control.

China’s Taiwan Affairs Office said the bill was a serious contravention of the“one China” principle.

“We also sternly warn Taiwan: do not rely on foreigners to build yourselves up, or it will only draw the fire upon you,” it said in a short statement.

In a strongly-worded editorial, the official China Daily said if the bill becomes law it will only encourage Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen to further assert the island’s sovereignty.

“Which, if she persisted, would lead to the inevitable consequence of triggering the Anti-Secession Law that allows Beijing to use force to prevent the island from seceding,” the paper said, referring to a Chinese law passed in 2005.

“Since the U.S. is bound by domestic law to act on behalf of the island in that instance, it would only give substance to the observation that the descent into hell is easy.”

China’s hostility towards Taiwan has risen since the election to president of Tsai from the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party in 2016.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-taiwan/china-warns-taiwan-playing-with-fire-over-u-s-bill-idUSKCN1GE039

cnocbui

If China ever attacks Taiwan and absorbs it the way Russia did with Crimea, they can expect economic consequences so severe they will regret it, as Putin found out. It really wouldn't be worth their while in the long run.

jackboy

cnocbui wrote: »

If China ever attacks Taiwan and absorbs it the way Russia did with Crimea, they can expect economic consequences so severe they will regret it, as Putin found out. It really wouldn't be worth their while in the long run.

Aren't the US committed to military intervention in that situation?

cnocbui

jackboy wrote: »

Aren't the US committed to military intervention in that situation?

There is now knowing what the US is committed to with a very loose nut currently holding the steering wheel.

All of Apple's mobile processors are made in Taiwan. China needs to imagine a US law forbidding the import of anything into the US either made in China or containing components made there and forbidding any US company of operating there.. Buy shares in Mexico inc. if that happens.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

There is now knowing what the US is committed to with a very loose nut currently holding the steering wheel.

All of Apple's mobile processors are made in Taiwan. China needs to imagine a US law forbidding the import of anything into the US either made in China or containing components made there and forbidding any US company of operating there.. Buy shares in Mexico inc. if that happens.

If Trump's policy is to "bring jobs home", then he may have to provide government assistance to replace lost production facilities if things were to pan out that way.

Cheerful Spring

The peace talk in the media did not last long.

North Korea threatened on Saturday to“counter the U.S.” if the United States holds joint military exercises with South Korea, and said it would not beg for talks with Washington.

If the U.S. finally holds joint military exercises while keeping sanctions on the DPRK, the DPRK will counter the U.S. by its own mode of counteraction and the U.S. will be made to own all responsibilities for the ensuing consequences,” North Korea’s official KCNA news agency said in its commentary, saying the drills would harm reconciliation efforts on the peninsula.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/north-korea-threatens-to-counter-u-s-over-military-drills-idUSKCN1GF0CT

Cheerful Spring

jackboy wrote: »

Aren't the US committed to military intervention in that situation?

Yes, it will trigger a response if China attacks Taiwan.

Timberrrrrrrr

North and South Korea agree to hold summit talks in April

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/mneXOs27J03HAvSa2

North Korea and South Korea will hold a summit at the end of April along the border, Chung said. The envoy also said Kim was willing to hold frank denuclearization talks with the U.S.

cnocbui

That's great, I'm sure fat Kim will see the error of his ways and announce the curtailment of all rocket and nuclear weapon development. I also believe that a breakthrough will be made in fusion power generation next week and it will solve all the worlds power and pollution problems within a year and bring everlasting world peace.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, it will trigger a response if China attacks Taiwan.

A response but probably very little in the way of military reactions. It really depends on how many US forces are in Taiwan when China attacks and how many are killed. If China manages to occupy Taiwan without any major casualties to US troops, then the US is unlikely to take it further.

The world has changed since the US made their guarantees regarding Taiwan. It doesn't have its previous capabilities to project force in the numbers that would be needed to take on China, and they've lost immediate access to many of China's neighboring countries. [I'm not even sure the US economy would be capable of absorbing the costs of running a war against a major nation like China] The PRC has been preparing for a war with the US for decades, and while they wouldn't win in a protracted war, they can do serious damage to any US expeditionary force, especially any of the carrier groups. The US has a very gun-shy reaction to major casualties, and won't want to commit substantial military assets into the region regardless of which arm of the military it is.

As for the economic considerations, that's totally an unknown. Nobody knows the extent of China's economic reserves or the degree that they've invested themselves into the US economy. Any serious conflict would turn reluctant Chinese people into patriots rather quickly, and there are a lot of Chinese people currently living, working, and investing in the West. It could easily turn into a very messy situation costing the US a lot too...

TBH my bet is that the US would try to save face with a minimum response, andTaiwan would ultimately be left to fend for themselves.

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

North and South Korea agree to hold summit talks in April

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/mneXOs27J03HAvSa2

Talking is good, but talks can take months if not years to complete. Is North Korea going to allow inspectors in to verify the denuclearization? Could North Korea be playing for time to manufacture more nuclear weapons? It's waiting and see what will happen. If these talks don't work out war is guaranteed let's hope the North is genuinely looking for a different path to solve the crisis?