US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Gatling

Zebra3 wrote: »

Key phrase -

.

So that's a No and you have No idea why

Ah well .

Oblivoid

Pac1Man wrote: »

I wonder who cuts Kim's hair.

A very scared person.

Hector Bellend

A NICE BIT OF AN AUL PREMPTTIVE STRIKE

SeanW

Zebra3 wrote: »

Key phrase -

First strike.

A war crime.

Again one of our extremists on here out defending possible war crimes that would wipe out millions.

I'd like to say I'm surprised.......

Key phrase. Repeat it. slowly. "Most Extreme Circumstances." Unlike the Kims of North Korea, that threaten all and sundry with Armageddon as a matter of daily routine, the UK has made it clear that their nukes are only for the most dire situations.

Elmer Blooker

SeanW wrote: »

Key phrase. Repeat it. slowly. "Most Extreme Circumstances." Unlike the Kims of North Korea, that threaten all and sundry with Armageddon as a matter of daily routine, the UK has made it clear that their nukes are only for the most dire situations.

Daily? I'm not here to defend N.Korea but the country hasn't fired a shot in anger in 64 years which is more than can be said about many other countries.

North Korea is often portrayed as a rogue state which endangers the region and according to some, the world. But North Korea has not engaged in a hot conflict since the ceasefire which ended the Korean War in 1953. There is little evidence that North Korea is actually as menacing as it often pretends to be, let alone as menacing as others claim it is.

This list of countries makes the North Koreans look like amateurs which is what they probably are. I suppose there has to be a "threat" from somewhere. Assad and Putin are getting a bit of a break at the moment but for how long until the next "incident"?
http://theduran.com/10-countries-that-threaten-world-peace-more-than-north-korea/

Timberrrrrrrr

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Daily? I'm not here to defend N.Korea but the country hasn't fired a shot in anger in 64 years which is more than can be said about many other countries.
This list of countries makes the North Koreans look like amateurs which is what they probably are. I suppose there has to be a "threat" from somewhere. Assad and Putin are getting a bit of a break at the moment but for how long until the next "incident"?
http://theduran.com/10-countries-that-threaten-world-peace-more-than-north-korea/

Erm


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong

cnocbui

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Daily? I'm not here to defend N.Korea but the country hasn't fired a shot in anger in 64 years which is more than can be said about many other countries.

That so?

By Jack Kim and Lee Jae-won | INCHEON, South Korea

North Korea fired scores of artillery shells at a South Korean island on Tuesday, killing two soldiers, in one of the heaviest attacks on its neighbor since the Korean War ended in 1953.

The barrage -- the South fired back and sent a fighter jet to the area -- was close to a disputed maritime border on the west of the divided peninsula and the scene of deadly clashes in the past. South Korea was conducting military drills in the area at the time but said it had not been firing at the North.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-korea-north-artillery-idUSTRE6AM0YS20101123

Facts disagree with you.

Timberrrrrrrr

In fact here is a long list of incidents that have happened since the 50's

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea

SeanW

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

In fact here is a long list of incidents that have happened since the 50's

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea

It should be noted that this list excludes act of terror by the North Koreans, such as the bombing of a Korean airliner in '87, murdering all on board.

But please Elmer, Zebra3 and company, keep on with these delusions that the North Koreans are stable peace loving folks while it's the democracies that are the murders and warmongers. It's almost amusing at this stage.

cnocbui

Zebra3 wrote: »

Great jibberish. :rolleyes:

Well admittedly you probably require a vocabulary beyond primary level to get it.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Daily? I'm not here to defend N.Korea but the country hasn't fired a shot in anger in 64 years Which

Is a blantan lie from yourself.


"Since 2014, the Ukrainian regime has engaged in a genocidal war against ethnic and cultural Russians in Donbass."

Pathetic nonsense

Your far right link also doesn't​ mention the invasion and occupation of Crimea , Occupation of Eastern Ukraine by russia,
Or the shooting down of Flight of MH17,
Or the russian invasion of Afghanistan and massacre of its then government ,
Your link also seems to forgot the Taliban were removed by the US and Nato (or is your link suggesting they were a legitimate government)

Samaris

cnocbui wrote: »

Well admittedly you probably require a vocabulary beyond primary level to get it.

Mod: Oy, enough of the personal jibes. This discussion is getting to the stage of being sniping. General thread warning - tone it down, posters throwing personal insults around will get thread-banned/modded.

Elmer Blooker

SeanW wrote: »

It should be noted that this list excludes act of terror by the North Koreans, such as the bombing of a Korean airliner in '87, murdering all on board.

But please Elmer, Zebra3 and company, keep on with these delusions that the North Koreans are stable peace loving folks while it's the democracies that are the murders and warmongers. It's almost amusing at this stage.

The very "democracies" that have caused endless war, death and destruction and have done everything in their power to prevent democracy in resource rich countries that gained independence from their colonial masters after WW2?
It almost amusing at this stage that people still believe our "superior" western culture is bringing peace, democracy and stability to the world!
... haven't a clue what Gatling is on about!

ilkhanid

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The very "democracies" that blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah bla blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ....and stability to the world!.

Which is of no relevance to the topic whatsoever, does nothing to refute the point made by the previous poster and anyway is just a (vain) attempt at deflection. Or rather an exasperated rant at being caught out in a statement so spectacularly wrongheaded as to expose the poster as being completely ignorant of the topic that he is attempting to discuss. You'd think evrybody here would do at least a bit of homework...

SeanW

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The very "democracies" that have caused endless war, death and destruction and have done everything in their power to prevent democracy in resource rich countries that gained independence from their colonial masters after WW2?
It almost amusing at this stage that people still believe our "superior" western culture is bringing peace, democracy and stability to the world!

It's been Communist countries like Red China, the Soviet Union and North Korea that have been destabilising the world for as long as the Hammer and Sickle has existed.

North Korea in particular has spent the last 60+ years running the world largest prison, (the only crime of the North Korean people was that of being unlucky enough to be born in the Kim's rotting cesspool of hatred and suffering), using its own people as test subjects for biological and chemical weapons, murdering civilians on airliners, kidnapping citizens of other nations, regularly committing acts of war against the South and since the early 2000s regularly threatening the free world with nuclear Armageddon, all the while refining its nuclear and ICBM capabilities ... yet somehow South Korea, Japan and the U.S. are the bad guys.

Perhaps next you will regale us with an enthralling tale of how it's Japan's fault the Red China is trying to steal the Senkaku islands from them, how it's the Tibetans fault their country was invaded and annexed by Red China, ditto for the people of East Turkestan, or how its fault of the Phillippines, Vietnam, Indonesia etc that China has annexed their maritime territory.

... haven't a clue what Gatling is on about!

I haven't a clue what you are on about, and I doubt I am alone in this.

Elmer Blooker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Erm


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong

There are two sides to every story, there are military maneuvers and there is deliberate provocation. Of course this is to get a reaction from the North.
http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/22/12354912-provocation-north-korean-flag-used-in-us-south-korea-war-games?lite

Which is of no relevance to the topic whatsoever,

blah blah blah yadda ????

Timberrrrrrrr

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

There are two sides to every story, there are military maneuvers and there is deliberate provocation. Of course this is to get a reaction from the North.
http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/22/12354912-provocation-north-korean-flag-used-in-us-south-korea-war-games?lite


blah blah blah yadda ????

Doesn't take anything away from your claim that they "haven't fired a shot in anger" though.

ilkhanid

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Doesn't take anything away from your claim that they "haven't fired a shot in anger" though.

Rather like the Kerry lawyer. "Your Honour, my client was nowhere near the place at the time, if he did it, then he was of unsound mind at the time and not responsible for his actions...and anyway, the bastard had it coming"! Every base covered, as the Americans say.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm not here to defend N.Korea but the country hasn't fired a shot in anger in 64 years.....

I don't know which of those statements is the bigger laugh.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

There are two sides to every story, there are military maneuvers and there is deliberate provocation. Of course this is to get a reaction from the North.

Yet oddly enough, you don't regard North Korean actions-not just manoeuvres, actual kidnappings, attacks, killings-as provocations that deserved an armed response. Imagine if, in response to the Blue House raid, the South had dropped a couple of thousand shells on the North, you'd be singing a different tune. History will show that South Korea and Japan have behaved with an astonishing degree of restraint in response to continuous North Korean abuse.
In any case what right does the country that chopped up two American officers in the de-militarized zone have to moan about "provocation"?

Elmer Blooker

ilkhanid wrote: »

I don't know which of those statements is the bigger laugh.

Heres the link again that I posted earlier. The headline is "10 countries that threaten world peace MORE than North Korea"
After all the bloodshed, carnage and destruction throughout the world over the last 50/60 years I would have to agree. The evidence is right in front of you.
http://theduran.com/10-countries-that-threaten-world-peace-more-than-north-korea/

ilkhanid

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Heres the link again that I posted earlier. The headline is "10 countries that threaten world peace MORE than North Korea

We're not talking about the World, we're talking about Korea on this thread and there are three countries that feel distinctly threatened by North Korea right now. If you want to start a thread "USA:threat to World Peace" be our guest.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Heres the link again that I posted earlier. The headline is "10 countries that threaten world peace [B

Oddly your​ Far Right link with its fake news seems to have left out a lot of history involving several other countries including russian and Chinese binvolvement in the listed countries

The_Valeyard

ilkhanid wrote: »

be our guest.

Great.......now that song from Beauty and the Beast is stuck in my head.

SeanW

Gatling wrote: »

Oddly your​ Far Right link with its fake news seems to have left out a lot of history involving several other countries including russian and Chinese binvolvement in the listed countries

I don't even think Elmer's psychobabble is "far right" or "alt right" or anything like that - the alt-right have a misconception of Vladimir Putin as some kind of level headed saviour of Europe, some of them seem to dream of re-uniting the West with Eastern Orthodox Christianity and post memes about launching a new Crusade to retake Constantinople or Jerusalem or something. At the very least they have a positive view of the modern Russian Federation.

I don't know of anyone on the right who claims that South Korea or Japan are bad actors vis-a-vis North Korea/Red China, certainly no Reagan conservatives feel this way and I'm not aware of any alt-righter who feels so either. I suspect the "Commies are wonderful, it's the democracies are evil" stuff comes from the extreme left.

SeanW

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Heres the link again that I posted earlier. The headline is "10 countries that threaten world peace MORE than North Korea"
After all the bloodshed, carnage and destruction throughout the world over the last 50/60 years I would have to agree. The evidence is right in front of you.
http://theduran.com/10-countries-that-threaten-world-peace-more-than-north-korea/

I'll probably regret this, but I'll bite:

Your article makes no mention of Red China, which has already annexed two of its neighbors (Tibet and East Turkestan), stolen maritime territory from all of its neighbors in the South China Sea, and is in disputes which could be violent with all of its other neighbors (Japan, Taiwan and India). It was also previously involved in wars with the Soviet Union.

1. The United States

Virtually all wars the U.S. was involved in were started by other nations, either attacking the U.S. directly or dragging them in by proxy. WWI - started by Europeans. WWII - started by Europeans and the Empire of Japan. The Cold, Vietnam and Korean wars - started by Communists. Iraq 1 - started by Saddam Hussains invasion of Kuwait. Serbia - caused by Slobadan Milosevic. Afghanistan 1 - started by Communists in 1979/1980. Afghanistan 2 - started by Al Quadea and the Taliban.

Since 2014, the Ukrainian regime has engaged in a genocidal war against ethnic and cultural Russians in Donbass. The war has not ceased and the Kiev regime constantly violates the Minsk II ceasefire agreement.

Horse****. Eastern Ukraine's history is almost identical to that of Northern Ireland - Soviet Russia had the same "planter" policies in Eastern Ukraine as the British Empire had in Northern Ireland. In both cases trouble has followed ever since. Ukraine is fighting for its survival since the Euromaidan protests. Ukranians were the victims of genocide they are not the agressors.

Israel?s Yinon Plan, is a long term strategy that many in Israel?s government and deep state plan to execute in order to annex further land among Israel?s neighbours.

Israel occupies less than 1% of the Middle East. The article accuses Israel of trying to expand into "Greater Israel" but its only evidence is that some fellow named Yinon wrote a paper outlining a plan for same in '82, which was published in a now defunct periodical. In other words, a nothingburger with a side of zeroketchup. Israel has actually surrendered territory since '82 (the Gaza strip) not acquired any new lands by any means since then, so this is also horse****. They had also shrunk the size of their country by about 50% around that time by returning the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

France?s intervention into Mali in 2013-2014 has also been widely criticised as a duplicitous post-colonial exercise.

By whom? Islamists? The French were asked to intervene by the Malian government, who were fighting an Islamist insurrection in the North by Islamic lunatics hell-bent on imposing Sharia Law on the place. More horse****.

Elmer Blooker

SeanW wrote: »

I don't even think Elmer's psychobabble ....

Is psychobabble the new 'in' word for historical facts?

there are three countries that feel distinctly threatened by North Korea right now.

One is Japan, the other is obviously South Korea, the third country "threatened" wouldn't be the one with a trillion dollar military budget bigger than the rest of the world put together?

twinytwo

SeanW wrote: »

Remind us who started the Vietnam war. Was it the U.S? Or was it communists who did not accept the concept of a free South Vietnam?

Communists started the Vietnam war. The Post-WWII accords called for a Communist North Vietnam and a free/US aligned South Vietnam.

If you are going to argue with someone, you might want to at least be correct in your arguement.

After the French withdrew, the 1957 accords (creating the 17th parrallel) called for elections to be held to see who would control both North and South. Ngo Dinh Diem (US backed) refused to allow the elections.... this started the war.

Timberrrrrrrr

twinytwo wrote: »

If you are going to argue with someone, you might want to at least be correct in your arguement.

After the French withdrew, the 1957 accords (creating the 17th parrallel) called for elections to be held to see who would control both North and South. Ngo Dinh Diem (US backed) refused to allow the elections.... this started the war.

And to follow up on that

SeanW wrote: »

I'll probably regret this, but I'll bite:


Virtually all wars the U.S. was involved in were started by other nations, Afghanistan 2 - started by Al Quadea and the Taliban.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932014)

In 2001, U.S. President George W. Bush demanded that the Taliban hand over Osama bin Laden and expel al-Qaeda; bin Laden had already been wanted by the United Nations since 1999. The Taliban declined to extradite him unless given evidence of his involvement in the September 11 attacks[42] and also declined demands to extradite others on the same grounds. The request for evidence was dismissed by the U.S. as a delaying tactic, and on 7 October 2001 it launched Operation Enduring Freedom with the United Kingdom.

Hank Scorpio

SeanW wrote: »

Virtually all wars the U.S. was involved in were started by other nations, either attacking the U.S. directly or dragging them in by proxy.

Very naive statement imo, I'd have a somewhat opposite view.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

aloyisious

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Very naive statement imo, I'd have a somewhat opposite view.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

Ta. Never heard about Lemnitzer before now, thought Curtis LeMay was the threat to Kennedy. T/G for R McNamara who, despite being a hawk, turned dovish later.

ilkhanid

SeanW wrote: »

Horse****. Eastern Ukraine's history is almost identical to that of Northern Ireland - Soviet Russia had the same "planter" policies in Eastern Ukraine as the British Empire had in Northern Ireland. In both cases trouble has followed ever since. Ukraine is fighting for its survival since the Euromaidan protests. Ukranians were the victims of genocide they are not the agressors.

The analogy that I think suits it best is that of the Sudetenland. You see the same tactics employed by the revanchist power, including hysterical accusations of genocide....repeated here.
I don't agree with everything that you've said here (notably on Vietnam) but, nevertheless, your points are well made. The original was ridiculously partisan and lumped a few accurate points in with loads of spurious nonsense: France is condemned for actions it took well back in the last century (why then isn't Russia condemned for the USSR's "Trail of blood"?) and charges are laid-France committing war crimes in syria-without the tiniest shred of evidence produced. Ignoring the destabilising activities of China makes a complete mockery of it. You know that this is an extremist pile of faeces when you see lunatic statements like "Since the late 1990s, Albania has transformed into a hotbed of regional imperialism as well as radical political Sunni Islam. Albanian leaders seek to create a so-called Greater Albania by annexing parts of Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and even Greece" .
FFS, look at some of the enthusiastic commenters on that article, going on about Illuminati and other conspiraloon nonsense-speaks for itself.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

One is Japan, the other is obviously South Korea,..............

Good! We're making progress here. Finally, an admission that South Korea and Japan are threatened by North Korea.