US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Gatling

Looking at the numbers for the current military Aircraft in North Korea and South Korea
North Korea has about 40 Aircraft from the 80s mainly the mig 29 , and an similar number or su25 ground attack Aircraft
The rest of their airforce dates back to the end of hostilities from the Korean war to the 70s and
early 80s ,
Pity the pilots been sent up flying their most numorous fighter from the 50s and 60s up against​ the Latest F15s (60)and F16s(118) F5s(158) (60 )T50 sfrom South Korea with modern radar and missles technology ,
And that's before the you get to the American Aircraft on the ground in Korea and on carriers ,
(America has more modern fighter/multirole jets on one carrier than the north Korea has in it's airforce)

Has to be some sane people behind the leadership who can see this is going to end very bad for one side , both side will suffer casualties but the north particularly suffer seriously heavy casualties and loses ,

CoolHandBandit

Good sign that NK has still not tested a nuclear device. It shows Trump's show of force whilst being open to dialogue policy policy is having an effect. At least he's not doing appearances on Jimmy Kimmel like Obama whilst he should be acting like a president.

aloyisious

I suppose (not being sarcastic here) that if Kim is passed Don's tele-invite (say by China) to a personal head-of-state meeting between them with sane interpreters to sort out the argument (without theatre usage - if you get my drift) the egos of both men might be an enabling factor to allow it happen.

cnocbui

gitzy16v wrote: »

No need for America to level NK....Plenty of defectors to SK,China and Russia...Take Kim out Yeh.
But the US should not be allowed take Kim out with they're own brand of democracy bombs...leave it to who knows best S.Korea,China and Russia..Americans have no business in NK other than defending themselves.

So what signs can you point to that indicate China or Russia would ever consider doing anything about Kim and preventing NK from developing deliverable nuclear weapons?

You say leave it to them - why?

Yourself isit

cnocbui wrote: »

So what signs can you point to that indicate China or Russia would ever consider doing anything about Kim and preventing NK from developing deliverable nuclear weapons?

You say leave it to them - why?

Why not? China and Russia are much closer powers.

cnocbui

Yourself isit wrote: »

Why not? China and Russia are much closer powers.

I'm looking for evidence that the situation can safely be left up to them. So far they have done nothing except help NK get and develop nuclear weapons.

Russia and China on Thursday opposed tough sanctions the US wants to impose against North Korea this week for its claimed nuclear test, saying they want time to work out a more moderate response to Pyongyang's nuclear brinkmanship.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-10/13/content_707553.htm

That was 11 years ago. How has that approach worked out? They have had 11 years for their 'more moderate' response and they have done nothing and achieved nothing.

That's why you can't leave it up to those duplicitous wretches.

aloyisious

cnocbui wrote: »

I'm looking for evidence that the situation can safely be left up to them. So far they have done nothing except help NK get and develop nuclear weapons.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-10/13/content_707553.htm

That was 11 years ago. How has that approach worked out? They have had 11 years for their 'more moderate' response and they have done nothing and achieved nothing.

That's why you can't leave it up to those duplicitous wretches.

It's entirely possible that the presence of Don as President in the W/House might cause a change of heart. They'll have been watching him as much as the rest of the world.

Gatling

Should China and Russia be left to sort north Korea ,
No they have led the way to today's current situation in Korea ,they installed the Kim family ,they equipped his weapons program and directly allowed to the Kim family to keep the region unstable and in an 60+ year state of war ,
China are becoming a real Superpower while russia has become a local regional power with little ability if any to pressure kim to cease his current course

aloyisious

Gatling wrote: »

Should China and Russia be left to sort north Korea ,
No they have led the way to today's current situation in Korea ,they installed the Kim family ,they equipped his weapons program and directly allowed to the Kim family to keep the region unstable and in an 60+ year state of war ,
China are becoming a real Superpower while russia has become a local regional power with little ability if any to pressure kim to cease his current course

I agree. they'd only put in another jockey, who in time, would follow NK tradition and need replacing the same way after more of the same Kim-ism.

biddyearley

China has advised its citizens to leave N Korea

cnocbui

Maybe.

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Geng Shuang's Regular Press Conference on May 3, 2017...

Q: Is it true that the Chinese Embassy in the DPRK two weeks ago advised Chinese citizens living in the DPRK to leave the country?

A: It is fake news according to what we have learnt. The Chinese Embassy in the DPRK has never issued any such kind of notice. China and the DPRK are close neighbors with normal people-to-people exchanges. There are Chinese citizens entering and exiting the DPRK every day, and that is quite normal.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1458633.shtml

Gatling

cnocbui wrote: »

Maybe.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1458633.shtml

The same time they said they hadn't dispatched 150,000 troops and military equipment to the border a few weeks ago , when they lead with fake news there's likely more to it than is been made known,
Treat it as rumors for now

snotboogie

cnocbui wrote: »

gitzy16v wrote: »

No need for America to level NK....Plenty of defectors to SK,China and Russia...Take Kim out Yeh.
But the US should not be allowed take Kim out with they're own brand of democracy bombs...leave it to who knows best S.Korea,China and Russia..Americans have no business in NK other than defending themselves.

So what signs can you point to that indicate China or Russia would ever consider doing anything about Kim and preventing NK from developing deliverable nuclear weapons?

You say leave it to them - why?

Off the top of my head in the last few months alone; China have banned coal imports from North Korea (the biggest source of export cash for the hermit state) and cancelled all Beijing-Pyongyang flights. Xi Jinping's faction of the CCP are openly hostile to the Kim dynasty and have been delivering diplomatic slights to the regime since Xi has come to power. The current Chinese leadership have definitely considered financing a regime change in North Korea but the risks are just too great; millions of refugees flooding into Dongbei (Manchuria) which has a long long history of being a vassal nation state separate from the rest of China represents a genuine existential threat to the Communist regime, especially with an United Korea and half of the US military right on it's border.

cnocbui

The coal ban was most likely just a retaliatory response to Kimmy assassinating his brother who was under China's protection. It was a slap in the face to China they couldn't ignore.

It's all rather too little, too late.

Gatling

cnocbui wrote: »

The coal ban was most likely just a retaliatory response to Kimmy assassinating his brother who was under China's protection.

Actually there is no actual coal ban from China it's down to UN sanctions ,China is only allowed import 40 million (open to correction) tons of coal to prevent undue hardships on the population of north Korea every year ,they took in their quota and sent the coal ships back to North Korean ports

ilkhanid

Gatling wrote: »

Should China and Russia be left to sort north Korea ,
No they have led the way to today's current situation in Korea ,they installed the Kim family ,they equipped his weapons program and directly allowed to the Kim family to keep the region unstable and in an 60+ year state of war ,
China are becoming a real Superpower while russia has become a local regional power with little ability if any to pressure kim to cease his current course

I doubt that Russia has any influence at all on North Korea and China has decreasing influence with every year. The Chinese have been trying to nudge The Kim's in the direction of limited Market reform for decades now with little success.
Likewise with nuclear weapons. It appears now that the Chinese never wanted the DPRK to have nuclear weapons (naturally, they knew it was destabilising to the region and got in the way of normalising relations with the US) but it just went ahead anyway. The USSR and China had some influence over Kim Il-Sung, the most rational (I know, a relative term) of the Kims, but the dynasty has grown more bloody-minded and paranoid with time.
The Kims resent the influence the Chinese have and regard the Chinese as patronising them and having a "Big Brother" attitude.

RobertKK

Chinese state media slammed North Korea, after North Korean leadership said their nuclear weapons were more important than their relationship with China.

In an editorial in China's state sanctioned Global Times, the Chinese said:
"Nothing more than a hyper-aggressive piece completely filled with nationalistic passion.
Pyongyang obviously is grappling with some form of irrational logic over its nuclear program.
The direction of China-North Korea relations remains in the hands of China."

That is China telling North Korea off.

Elmer Blooker

Someone please tell me that this a pi55 take! Surely this isn't true but apparently the US House of Representatives has approved a bill that will take control of ports in China, Iran, Syria and the Russian far east. I have nothing more to say as I am absolutely speechless right now! :eek:
https://rusreality.com/2017/05/05/usa-will-take-the-control-ports-of-the-russian-far-east-because-of-the-sanctions-against-the-dprk/
Taking a Syrian port to impose sanctions against N.Korea??

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Someone please tell me that this a pi55 take! Surely this isn't true but apparently the US House of Representatives has approved a bill that will take control of ports in China, Iran, Syria and the Russian far east. I have nothing more to say as I am absolutely speechless right now! :eek:
https://rusreality.com/2017/05/05/usa-will-take-the-control-ports-of-the-russian-far-east-because-of-the-sanctions-against-the-dprk/
Taking a Syrian port to impose sanctions against N.Korea??

you will need to come with a better source than that. that article says that the house of representatives voted on April 4th on sanctions against north korea. According to congress no such vote took place

http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.aspx?day=20170404&today=20170505

cnocbui

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Someone please tell me that this a pi55 take! Surely this isn't true but apparently the US House of Representatives has approved a bill that will take control of ports in China, Iran, Syria and the Russian far east. I have nothing more to say as I am absolutely speechless right now! :eek:
https://rusreality.com/2017/05/05/usa-will-take-the-control-ports-of-the-russian-far-east-because-of-the-sanctions-against-the-dprk/
Taking a Syrian port to impose sanctions against N.Korea??

Rus-reality?

Put an /s tag after such posts so people can more easily tell you were joking.

Elmer Blooker

Heres the House of Representatives Bill.
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/press-release/house-passes-chairman-royces-north-korea-sanctions-bill/
It seems the US is now claiming jurisdiction over foreign ports.

Cracks down on North Korean shipping and use of international ports;

cnocbui ... I'll try to stick to sources that you approve of in future.

nelly17

Its becoming more and more difficult to take anything from a Russian media outlet online seriously these days - they are so brazen in their spread of propaganda and fake news

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Heres the House of Representatives Bill.
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/press-release/house-passes-chairman-royces-north-korea-sanctions-bill/
It seems the US is now claiming jurisdiction over foreign ports.

cnocbui ... I'll try to stick to sources that you approve of in future.

well you could certainly try to use sources that actually read what they are reporting on. Firstly it was May 4 not April 4th. Not sure how a responsible journalist gets something like that wrong. and secondly it has nothing to do with controlling foreign ports. It says

The Department of Homeland Security may implement enhanced screening of cargo bound for or landed in the United States that: (1) has been transported through a sea port or airport that has repeatedly failed to comply with applicable Security Council resolutions; (2) is aboard a vessel, aircraft, or conveyance that has entered North Korean territory, waters, or airspace, or landed in any of its seaports or airports, within the last 365 days; or (3) is registered by a country whose inspection compliance is deficient.
The Ports and Waterways Safety Act is amended to prohibit any foreign vessel from entering or operating in U.S. waters or transferring cargo in any port under U.S. jurisdiction if such vessel is owned by North Korea or owned or operated on behalf of any country not complying with Security Council resolutions.

Nothing there about controlling foreign ports.

fxotoole

Just saw this on the Journal

http://www.thejournal.ie/cia-kim-assassination-3375099-May2017/

No mention of any denial/non-denial denial by the US. Sounds like North Korea blowing smoke, tbh

Gatling

fxotoole wrote: »

Just saw this on the Journal

http://www.thejournal.ie/cia-kim-assassination-3375099-May2017/

No mention of any denial/non-denial denial by the US. Sounds like North Korea blowing smoke, tbh

Yeah previously they said America was planning to launch chemical weapons attacks against the South s then they would have reason to invade the North just like when they blamed assad for chemical weapons attacks in syria ,

Cheerful Spring

fxotoole wrote: »

Just saw this on the Journal

http://www.thejournal.ie/cia-kim-assassination-3375099-May2017/

No mention of any denial/non-denial denial by the US. Sounds like North Korea blowing smoke, tbh

I would not be surprised if they tried to kill Kim, it's a better choice over starting a war that can kill millions of people. Black project operations against Foreign leaders will never be officially announced.

Cheerful Spring

South Korean military: North Korea launches ballistic missile

North Korea launched a ballistic missile from near Kusong, in the northwestern part of the country, early Sunday, the South Korean Joints Chief of Staff said.

"Our military is closely monitoring for provocative movements by North Korea and is maintaining all readiness postures," a statement from the military said.
The missile flew 700 kilometers (435 miles), the South Korean military said. A US defense official confirmed the 700-kilometer distance for the missile's flight but added the US is still assessing what type of missile it was.
This is the first provocative move from North Korea since South Korean President Moon Jae-in took office. Moon has advocated dialogue with North Korea to denuclearize.

aloyisious

Just out of interest I googled this "how far is North Korea from Alaska" and this [Could North Korea's Kim Jong Un Strike Alaska With A Nuclear Bomb?] came up on the list of possible answers so I opened it and a few-second interview [two questions] with Don popped up in the opened page. The item seems to be dated (from the date shown) but the topics are current.

Link.... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwif9quuju_TAhVmGsAKHVT3CD8QFgguMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fnorth-korea-missiles-hit-alaska-strike-kim-jongun-572078&usg=AFQjCNHtCysIveGl_yOyo66sQ_YY1BqsmA

aloyisious

One part of this report [the range capability] is a "best estimates" judgement so it ain't set in stone....

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/world/2017/05/14/korea-missile/101689788/

This part of the report might shake some dust.... Russian President Vladimir Putin condemned the missile launch, telling reporters during a visit to China that “there’s nothing good about” it.

The Russian defense ministry said the missile landed several hundred kilometers away from the city of Vladivostok in Russia’s Far East, but Putin said it “didn’t present a threat” to his country.

ScumLord

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Someone please tell me that this a pi55 take! Surely this isn't true but apparently the US House of Representatives has approved a bill that will take control of ports in China, Iran, Syria and the Russian far east. I have nothing more to say as I am absolutely speechless right now! :eek:
https://rusreality.com/2017/05/05/usa-will-take-the-control-ports-of-the-russian-far-east-because-of-the-sanctions-against-the-dprk/
Taking a Syrian port to impose sanctions against N.Korea??

I can't tell if that Russian reality website is supposed to be commentating on Russian propaganda or brazenly stating it's Russian propaganda?

I think it's trying to promote Russian propaganda but it's so poorly written it's kind of hard to tell.