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US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

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    #962
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    A 5500km missile, as assumed with this, can hit western Alaska. Not Europe. Not hugely far off at the same time...

    If they can fire from a sub, launching from the mainland is not needed.


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    #963
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so? its not like you can buy it off the shelf. If you start from scratch then you have relearn other peoples mistakes.

    NK is one of the hardest places on earth to spy on. Nobody truly knows what the military capabilities are of NK. They have got better at testing missiles recent launch are all successful. This first time ever they tested an ICBM and by all accounts it was a successful test.


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    #964
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,427 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    If they can fire from a sub, launching from the mainland is not needed.

    they can barely launch from a static site. sub based launches are a long way away. they dont even have a sub capable of doing so.


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    #965
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,427 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    NK is one of the hardest places on earth to spy on. Nobody truly knows what the military capabilities are of NK. They have got better at testing missiles recent launch are all successful. This first time ever they tested an ICBM and by all accounts it was a successful test.

    successful in that it didnt explode on launch. whether it actually landed where they intended is another thing.


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    #966
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they can barely launch from a static site. sub based launches are a long way away. they dont even have a sub capable of doing so.

    You assuming a lot based on what exactly? They have tested nukes they are not stupid people. They have tested missiles and they are not blowing up after take off any more. They can hit countries outsides NK, don't believe the nonsense what you read online.

    I will give you this though the sub technology they got is not advanced.


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    #967
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,427 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    You assuming a lot based on what exactly? They have tested nukes they are not stupid people. They have tested missiles and they are not blowing up after take off any more. They can hit countries outsides NK, don't believe the nonsense what you read online.

    I will give you this though the sub technology they got is not advanced.


    they have launched 5 missiles since April. 2 failed immediately. that is a pretty miserable failure rate. you dont really want to put a nuclear warhead on a missile and then have it blow up on launch. not good for morale.


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    #968
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    You assuming a lot based on what exactly?

    I will give you this though the sub technology they got is not advanced.

    They have tested a launch on a flat barge towed behind a large ship ,
    I don't think they are close to launching from a submarine ,or have a submarine capable of launching from one ,

    I get the feeling if they do manage to put a ICBM on a submarine they will quickly loose their small fleet of subs very quickly
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #969
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    If they can fire from a sub, launching from the mainland is not needed.

    They absolutely cannot. Their subs are too small, too little range, and the tech required to fire an SLBM is far beyond a land-based one.


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    #970
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,875 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you do realise that foreigners have actually been to north korea and seen how painfully thin the people are?

    "The people"?

    All the people are painfully thin?


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    #971
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,427 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    "The people"?

    All the people are painfully thin?


    well except for the big fat bloke running it. he doesnt seem to have much problem getting food.


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    #972
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    They absolutely cannot. Their subs are too small, too little range, and the tech required to fire an SLBM is far beyond a land-based one.

    Subs can be modified to fire mid range nuclear weapons. NK sub could reach the United States undetected, the seas are big place.


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    #973
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they can barely launch from a static site. sub based launches are a long way away. they dont even have a sub capable of doing so.

    Really?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKCN10Y2B0


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    #974
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,427 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Subs can be modified to fire mid range nuclear weapons. NK sub could reach the United States undetected, the seas are big place.

    even the obsolete romeo class subs the north koreans have ? what are you basing that opinion on?


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    #975
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,274 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    "The people"?

    All the people are painfully thin?


    I don't know about that but I'd say many are, but they are 2-3 inches shorter on average than their genetically identical Southern neighbours.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #976
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,427 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Really?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKCN10Y2B0


    hadnt realised they had managed to launch one. of course their chances of getting one of their subs close enough to the US to launch one are slim to none given that they have to surface regularly to recharge their batteries.


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    #977
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    even the obsolete romeo class subs the north koreans have ? what are you basing that opinion on?

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/s-gorae.htm Korea has a new type of submarine. They don't need 100 of them. They just need 3 or 5 that can fire multiple warheads. The older submarines can be modified and customized to launch missiles.


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    #978
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    hadnt realised they had managed to launch one. of course their chances of getting one of their subs close enough to the US to launch one are slim to none given that they have to surface regularly to recharge their batteries.

    Although Seoul claims Pyongyang did not have submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBMs) technology, certain developments in this area of technology had been reported. In September 2014, South Korea’s Joint Chiefs of Staff said that “there is no intelligence yet that North Korea has an SLBM in operation. But the possibility of a North Korean submarine equipped with an SLBM has been detected recently,” as quoted by the International Business Times September 14, 2014.

    Pyongyang had reportedly launched a new submarine capable of firing ballistic missiles. Government and military sources in South Korea said in early November 2014 that Pyongyang had imported a Soviet-era Golf class diesel submarine built in the 1950s and modified it. Sources said the newly launched submarine is identical to an unidentified submarine at the Sinpo shipyard that the US-based website 38 North revealed in October 2014.

    The U-Boat spend lot of time out at sea. It's not unrealistic a more modern sub will perform better.


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    #979
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    They don't need 100 of them. They just need 3 or 5 that can fire multiple warheads. The older submarines can be modified and customized to launch missiles.

    It's not a simple as it's been made out be be ,

    Most of the intelligence suggests that they haven't launched from a submarine instead relying on barges ,
    The video in the link you posted suggests it was a pure NK made propaganda flick
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #980
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    If North Korea don't have ICBM's or submarines that can hit the US, couldn't they use dirty bombs smuggled in?

    What defence have the US against such attacks? Do they have satellites monitoring the US to detect the radiation given off by such devices?


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    #981
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Subs can be modified to fire mid range nuclear weapons. NK sub could reach the United States undetected, the seas are big place.

    The sea is far too big a place for a tiny coastal submarine to operate in, yes.


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    #982
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you do realise that foreigners have actually been to north korea and seen how painfully thin the people are?

    OMG shock horror ...foreigners just discovered that East Asians are thin :eek:


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    #983
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    The sea is far too big a place for a tiny coastal submarine to operate in, yes.

    Best place to learn about their subs.
    http://www.janes360.com/images/assets/463/57463/North_Korea_modernises_submarine_fleet1.pdf


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    #984
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    It's not a simple as it's been made out be be ,

    Most of the intelligence suggests that they haven't launched from a submarine instead relying on barges ,
    The video in the link you posted suggests it was a pure NK made propaganda flick

    Foreign intelligence is crappy lets be honest. NK could not fire a capable ICBM for another 3 years. And here they launched one 1000+ miles up and came down near Japan all controlled. NK is way further ahead on this i believe.


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    #985
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Trump administration national security, military and diplomatic officials are holding an unexpected July 4 meeting to discuss what options might be needed if it is determined by the US that North Korea conducted an intercontinental ballistic missile test, several administration officials tell CNN.

    US military technical experts are now reviewing all data and intelligence gathered by US satellites, aircraft and other systems to determine if North Korea's claim that it fired an intercontinental missile is true. "The claim is being taken seriously," one senior Administration official said.

    Fox News reported their sources have told them this is first successful test of ICBM missile by NK.


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    #986
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Foreign intelligence is crappy lets be honest. NK could not fire a capable ICBM for another 3 years. And here they launched one 1000+ miles up and came down near Japan all controlled. NK is way further ahead on this i believe.

    Most of which is only "Claimed" by Nk I still doubt it was anything other than a medium range missle that carried enough fuel to get to a certain trajectory before falling back to earth ,

    Think I'll listen to the experts on this one
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #987
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,875 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If North Korea don't have ICBM's or submarines that can hit the US, couldn't they use dirty bombs smuggled in?

    What defence have the US against such attacks? Do they have satellites monitoring the US to detect the radiation given off by such devices?

    Nobody needs to worry about what weapons NK has.

    The weapons of blood thirsty countries like the US is who we should be concerned about. But for some reason the news is full of hyped up fear of NK instead of the war crimes of others. :rolleyes:


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    #988
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    Most of which is only "Claimed" by Nk I still doubt it was anything other than a medium range missle that carried enough fuel to get to a certain trajectory before falling back to earth ,

    Think I'll listen to the experts on this one

    US officials are saying it's an ICBM is probably true. I don't think a war against NK is good for anyone, this not like bombing Iraq or a base in Syria.

    Japan and South Korea have confirmed the missile when fired reached a height of 1500+ miles and traveled another 500+ after leveling off i suppose and landed near its target. The missile flew for 37 minutes, controlled.. This first time any NK missile reached that height.


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    #989
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Trump tweets
    "North Korea has just launched another missile,” the president wrote on Twitter. “Does this guy have anything better to do with his life? Hard to believe that South Korea and Japan will put up with this much longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!”

    Heavy move like what?


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    #990
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    US officials are saying it's an ICBM is probably true. I don't think a war against NK is good for anyone, this not like bombing Iraq or a base in Syria.

    Japan and South Korea have confirmed the missile when fired reached a height of 1500+ miles and traveled another 500+ after leveling off i suppose and landed near its target. The missile flew for 37 minutes, controlled.. This first time any NK missile reached that height.

    North Korea and Fox are the ones claiming ICBM which says it all really ,

    You said controlled flight based off what exactly ,it was fired in an arc which certainly doesn't mean controlled
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #991
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Nobody needs to worry about what weapons NK has.

    The weapons of blood thirsty countries like the US is who we should be concerned about. But for some reason the news is full of hyped up fear of NK instead of the war crimes of others. :rolleyes:
    Only a few months ago, the Americans and the South Koreans sent 300,000 (yes, that many) troops to the North Korean border to engage in military drills.

    This kind of provocation is almost never mentioned, let alone condemned.

    Most people prefer a simplistic narrative of foreign policy as a cartoon involving goodies vs baddies.


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