US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

So the Soviet union aka russia also agreed the North invaded .
Funny how they also sent men and equipment in large numbers to fight against the south which had been invaded

Google is a United States search engine. The Russians have never said the North Invaded the South first. All this is promoted by our side. The Russians even deny they supported the NK regime with pilots. This again promoted by google sites.

The_Valeyard

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Except, within living memory, the United States *actually* killed 25% of the population of North Korea, and *did* level the country’s towns and cities, including Pyongyang, where the city was literally flattened.

So when the likes of Obama says that he could destroy North Korea if he wanted, and the Americans are launching ICBMs into the Pacific Ocean (12 times more powerful than anything fired by DPRK), and the Americans have thousands of their own soldiers doing military exercises on the DPRK border... is it any surprise that the DPRK wants to defend itself?

Seriously? Is this not understandable to you?

You a spokesperson for the DPRK?


I understand very well. You seem to forget the destruction Of The South by invading Northern DPRK forces. And see you really trying to compare the US regime to that of Mad Kim??

Seriously?

BillyBobBS

I'm watching the news and they are saying the American's are fairly confident this was a ICBM. Also the security analyst is saying NK have enough artillery pointed at Seoul to flatten the city within 10 minutes of the first shot being fired. He also said ironically this old style artillery is nigh on impossible to defend against once launched compared to scud missiles etc...

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i've highlighted the important part of your post

This is researched information about the Korean war. You not going to find this information on a google site. Both sides blamed each other for starting the war.

ricero

The donald must slay north korea. How dare they do this on july 4th of all days !

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Russians even deny they supported the NK regime with pilots. This again promoted by google sites.

So where did the hundreds of fighter jets suddenly appear from russia with russian pilots on board , which 350+ were shot down and several hundred others destroyed on the ground ,
was it the first appearance of the little green men

The_Valeyard

ricero wrote: »

The donald must slay north korea. How dare they do this on july 4th of all days !

Thought 4th is all about fireworks.

The_Valeyard

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I'm watching the news and they are saying the American's are fairly confident this was a ICBM. Also the security analyst is saying NK have enough artillery pointed at Seoul to flatten the city within 10 minutes of the first shot being fired. He also said ironically this old style artillery is nigh on impossible to defend against once launched compared to scud missiles etc...

Probably why they kept it. Highly effective.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

So where did the hundreds of fighter jets suddenly appear from russia with russian pilots on board , which 350+ were shot down and several hundred others destroyed on the ground ,
was it the first appearance of the little green men

Where you read this on google? Where is the pictures of captured Russian soldiers, i have yet to see one photograph of captured Russian pilots or dead ones. The North where given military equipment, so what. Was it given over free or did they purchase planes?

BillyBobBS

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Probably why they kept it. Highly effective.

No i'd say they kept it because they are p i s s poor and as much as they'd like new shiny stuff they can't afford it. Actually couldn't believe the figure of 15,000 artillery pieces pointed at Seoul when the guy stated it so checked it up online and it seems accurate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/04/19/north-koreas-simple-but-deadly-artillery-holds-seoul-and-u-s-h_a_22046212/

Also just realising Seoul has 25m people thought it was half that jesus christ that's a lot of densely packed areas for 15k cannons, rockets etc.. to be pointed at. :eek:

The_Valeyard

BillyBobBS wrote: »

No i'd say they kept it because they are p i s s poor and as much as they'd like new shiny stuff they can't afford it. Actually couldn't believe the figure of 15,000 artillery pieces pointed at Seoul when the guy stated it so checked it up online and it seems accurate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/04/19/north-koreas-simple-but-deadly-artillery-holds-seoul-and-u-s-h_a_22046212/

Also just realising Seoul has 25m people thought it was half that jesus christ that's a lot of densely packed areas for 15k cannons, rockets etc.. to be pointed at. :eek:

Probably why makes them to scary.

Could use some of that artillery. Neighbours down the road having house party.....

Cheerful Spring

Just breaking on CNN.

Trump Admin is requesting a UN meeting on North Korea. More talk or are we not going to declare war on them?

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Just breaking on CNN.

Trump Admin is requesting a UN meeting on North Korea. More talk or are we not going to declare war on them?

Who's "we" and what's the reason for declaring war?

Gatling

That happened hours ago ,

A meeting was requested behind closed doors that's about it ,
It's the 4th of July nothing will happen before next week by the looks of things ,
All that will happen is america will say this and russia and China will say that ,
And Kim will lunch more missles as usual

mzungu

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

More talk or are we not going to declare war on them?

Just talk. Not a hope of a war being started over this, and rightly so. A storm in a teacup that will be forgotten about by next week.

Zebra3

LOL at America's fanboys getting all uppity over NK invading SK.

As if the US never started a war.

Gringo180

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Just breaking on CNN.

Trump Admin is requesting a UN meeting on North Korea. More talk or are we not going to declare war on them?

Declare war on them for what exactly? This isnt some defensless country that the US can bully like they usually do.

Cheerful Spring

Turn on CNN right now guys, there is some reaction going on involving South Korea and United States, very odd.

Gringo180

BillyBobBS wrote: »

No i'd say they kept it because they are p i s s poor and as much as they'd like new shiny stuff they can't afford it. Actually couldn't believe the figure of 15,000 artillery pieces pointed at Seoul when the guy stated it so checked it up online and it seems accurate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/04/19/north-koreas-simple-but-deadly-artillery-holds-seoul-and-u-s-h_a_22046212/

Also just realising Seoul has 25m people thought it was half that jesus christ that's a lot of densely packed areas for 15k cannons, rockets etc.. to be pointed at. :eek:

Wouldnt be close to 25 million in Seoul it would be nearer the 10 million mark.

Gringo180

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Turn on CNN right now guys, there is some reaction going on involving South Korea and United States, very odd.

No doubt the blood thirsty neocons in Washington are creaming thereselves at the thoughts of another war.

Gatling

Zebra3 wrote: »

LOL at America's fanboys getting all uppity over NK invading SK.

Just fact really,


In this case america did not invade North Korea ,

North Korea invaded south Korea .

That's it really

ilkhanid

ilkhanid wrote: »

1. 25%-wild hyperbole.

Not at all. Some people say 30%, others (including the US military at the time) have said 20%. I stated the mean figure.

This figure includes all North Korean deaths which would not otherwise have been anticipated, i.e. as a direct result of combat, as well as through the spread of disease and malnutrition. This methodology is in line with that used by The Lancet Study on deaths attributable to the US war in Iraq (which by the way, seems relatively modest in comparison)

The impact of war on North Korea was dramatic in terms of mortality and the (quite literally) annihilation of dozens of North Korean towns and cities.

You can't just expect North Korea to ignore this, when a President of the USA is boasting that he can effectively wipe them off the map.

A rational leadership would have said "F*** this for a game of soldiers" long before their capital was flattened and sued for peace

For real?

How can you blame the North Koreans for never surrendering, whilst apparently overlooking the belligerence of the USA, the country that was predominantly responsible for flattening North Korean urban centres and killing millions of people? Bizarre attitude.

They had a famine because they run a command economy and confiscate the produce of the rural population...

Er, no.

North Korean industrial output increased by about 19% per annum between 1955 and 1980, whilst the South Korean economy lagged behind. It was the fall of the USSR and the DPRK's subsequent inability to circumvent economic sanctions that destroyed the North's economy; a planned economy wasn't the problem, economic sanctions were the problem, and remain the problem.

AnGaelach wrote: »

So, presumably, being attacked within "living memory" also justifies Israel's nuclear weapons program, the US bombing the fúck out of Islamist groups, and the IRA shooting or blowing up British security forces?

Israel's nuclear weapons programme is 100% justified. I would be the first person to accuse Israel of visiting egregious human rights violations upon the Palestinians, and also the first person to defend Israel's right to nuclear defence.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You a spokesperson for the DPRK?

Obviously not. I have always been at pains to point-out that I find the DPRK to be an intolerable regime, and the sooner they have regime change, the better. In fact, as much as I (rightly) complain about capitalism, I would sooner see the DPRK turned into a libertarian-capitalist rogue state than a socialist one. Socialism doesn't cope well with isolation.

AnGaelach

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How can you blame the North Koreans for never surrendering, whilst apparently overlooking the belligerence of the USA, the country that was predominantly responsible for flattening[ North Korean urban centres and killing millions of people? Bizarre attitude.

The US wasn't the belligerent party in that conflict, intervention was approved by the United Nations Security Council because North Korea invaded South Korea. The US didn't start that war, and alleging they did, or that the North Koreans somehow acted in self-defence is preposterous. You're peddling fake history.

Zebra3

Gatling wrote: »

Just fact really,


In this case america did not invade North Korea ,

North Korea invaded south Korea .

That's it really

I'm fully aware of the fact.

But the hypocrisy of some on here using it as a stick to beat NK while cheerleading America. :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the fact.

But the hypocrisy of some on here using it as a stick to beat NK while cheerleading America. :rolleyes:

are posters not allowed to correct the mistakes of those who keep insisting that it was the south that invaded the north?

ilkhanid

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Real history for a change. Again American intervened in an internal matter. North and South, both populations are Korean. There was no mass killing of South Korean forces by Chinese fighters or Soviet fighters. The only side to do this is Western side.

The two states were recognized as being separate entities at the time just like East and West Germany. Would you regard it as an internal German matter if Ulbricht had marched across the border in 1950? There were no mass killings by Soviet troops because the Soviets wanted to keep their aid to Kim a secret, so for the sake of deniability there were to be no Soviet troops on the ground.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

In an interview with United Press, on 7th October 1949,
Syngman Rhee boasted............

It doesn't matter what he or the Kim Il Sing said. Actions, not words count. They both wanted to unify the country under their rule. But the North was the one that actually attacked. Two men may be spoiling for a fight, but in law, its the one that climbs over the fence that goes to jail.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The invasion started in the early hours of the 25th June. .............. Soon after we
launched our attack, we were confronted by a fierce counter-offensive of
the Constabularies of the People's Republic ...

If the North Koreans counterattacked, then it was the fastest, most prepared counterattack since the German "counterattack" across the Polish border on 1st September 1939, which the Germans claimed was in response to Polish provocation.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

In his book "New Light on Korea" D.N. Pritt wrote: "Within eight.....

Not going to waste a second on this idiocy. D. N Pritt was an infamous British fellow-traveler, hand-in-glove with the British Communist party. Pritt was expelled from the British Labour Party in 1940 following his support of the Soviet invasion of Finland.George Orwell said that Pritt was "perhaps the most effective pro-Soviet publicist in this country".[He was as dispassionate observer of the Korean War as was...Guy Burgess!

Zebra3 wrote: »

LOL at America's fanboys getting all uppity over NK invading SK.
As if the US never started a war.

Of course it will be the South Koreans (and ultimately the North Koreans in spades) who would pay the price for that madness, not the USA. Buit sure don't let that get in the way of your scoffing.

Cheerful Spring

ilkhanid wrote: »

The two states were recognized as being separate entities at the time just like East and West Germany. Would you regard it as an internal German matter if Ulbricht had marched across the border in 1950? There were no mass killings by Soviet troops because the Soviets wanted to keep their aid to Kim a secret, so for the sake of deniability there were to be no Soviet troops on the ground.



It doesn't matter what he or the Kim Il Sing said. Actions, not words count. They both wanted to unify the country under their rule. But the North was the one that actually attacked. Two men may be spoiling for a fight, but in law, its the one that climbs over the fence that goes to jail.



If the North Koreans counterattacked, then it was the fastest, most prepared counterattack since the German "counterattack" across the Polish border on 1st September 1939, which the Germans claimed was in response to Polish provocation.




Not going to waste a second on this idiocy. D. N Pritt was an infamous British fellow-traveler, hand-in-glove with the British Communist party. Pritt was expelled from the British Labour Party in 1940 following his support of the Soviet invasion of Finland.George Orwell said that Pritt was "perhaps the most effective pro-Soviet publicist in this country".[He was as dispassionate observer of the Korean War as was...Guy Burgess!



Of course it will be the South Koreans (and ultimately the North Koreans in spades) who would pay the price for that madness, not the USA. Buit sure don't let that get in the way of your scoffing.

North and South Korea both got prepared for hostility. North was prepared, so is it really a surprise they could counterattack effectively?

Look me and you truly has no clue who started the war. What we got though is two sides with different takes on what happened.

Cheerful Spring

AnGaelach wrote: »

The US wasn't the belligerent party in that conflict, intervention was approved by the United Nations Security Council because North Korea invaded South Korea. The US didn't start that war, and alleging they did, or that the North Koreans somehow acted in self-defence is preposterous. You're peddling fake history.[/QUOT

North and it's so called allies China and Soviet Union, did not enter the war and did not try to crush the South Korean forces. The UN lead by America declared war on North Korea, there is a big difference the support America provided to their side.

AnGaelach

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

North and it's so called allies China and Soviet Union, did not enter the war and did not try to crush the South Korean forces. The UN lead by America declared war on North Korea, there is a big difference the support America provided to their side.

You're peddling fake history.

AnGaelach

AnGaelach wrote: »

The US wasn't the belligerent party in that conflict, intervention was approved by the United Nations Security Council because North Korea invaded South Korea. The US didn't start that war, and alleging they did, or that the North Koreans somehow acted in self-defence is preposterous. You're peddling fake history.

This is preposterous. Nobody has claimed that North Korea acted in self-defence; nor that the US started the conflict.

But more importantly, I think you need to learn the meaning of the term 'belligerence'. 90% of the 'UN' troops were Americans, and it was the American military which was almost totally responsible for flattening North Korea, and for killing a substantial proportion of its population. These were acts of belligerence, i.e. war, whether UN-sanctioned or not.

And my point is that these happened within living memory. North Koreans have not forgotten the colossal scale of destruction that was visited upon them. It should be totally unsurprising that they are seeking to defend themselves, not just in light of recent history, but in the context of aggressive and provocative acts being carried out to this very day by the USA and the South Koreans.

I do not say this to absolve or deny the provocations committed by the North Koreans, I'm simply saying 'there's a pair of them in it'. It isn't a case of good vs evil, as some people seem to simplistically, foolishly believe.