US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Cheerful Spring

Curly Judge wrote: »

And from what history book did you get this "mostly likely" scenario?

The Major battles are won in North Korea. It reached a stalemate between the Chinese and UN forces eventually, but Chinese could easily have taken South Korea bringing in more fresh troops for the battle. China likely knew a bigger invasion would result in the use of atomic weapons.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What nonsense? The American civil war is not real (civil war) is that what you trying to say?

this

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

American civil war was exactly this: two different entities and recognised as such

is your memory playing up?

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this




is your memory playing up?

Officially. Fact though: England and France supported their cause against the Union and even debated the options of the joining the war on their side. So you can not say the South was not recognised.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Officially. Fact though: England and France supported their cause against the Union and even debated the options of the joining the war on their side. So you can not say the South was not recognised.

and i've already answered that.

ilkhanid

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Chinese army defeated the UN forces, what history book you read?

It would be correct to say that the Chinese fought UN forces to a standstill. Later the reverse was true. Nobody won, as such, but since The North's plan was thwarted, it would more accurate to say that they were defeated. If your project fails, then you've suffered a defeat.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Estonia, Finland, Lithunania, Latvia are lands right next door to Russia. And let's not forget this was at time when pretty much every nation on Earth was fighting someone..

So?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Soviet Union again never mobilized their vast armies to help South Korea or Vietnam. America did. It was coup organised by the Americans again that let the Soviet Union to invade Afghanistan. .

X 10

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Not sure how the Chinese army was broken when they won the major battles? The stopped mostly likely because the feared Atomic bombs would be used to stop their advance..

They stopped when they realized that the war could not be won and that the destruction visited on North Korea and the loss of life was not worth whatever aims they still had. The Chinese cut their losses and got out.

Cheerful Spring

ilkhanid wrote: »

It would be correct to say that the Chinese fought UN forces to a standstill. Later the reverse was true. Nobody won, as such, but since The North's plan was thwarted, it would more accurate to say that they were defeated. If yor project fails, then you've suffered a defeat.



So?



X 10



They stopped when they realized that the war could not be won and that the destruction visited on North Korea and the loss of life was not worth whatever aims they still had. The Chinese cut their losses and got out.

I already said North Korea was defeated first. The UN got defeated in their takeover over of North Korea, they too lost. From there we got a stalemate and all sides signed the armistice agreement.

America has joined wars, organised and supported coups of democratic elected leaders all across the world since 1945. Soviet for most part annexed nations near their borders and fought other countries at a time when every nation on earth was upset with someone about something.

Soviet Union is so evil why they not send in their armies straight away to crush South Korea and South Vietnam and Cambodia?

InTheTrees

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

NK sub could reach the United States undetected, the seas are big place.

You say that with such confidence.

I thought, but maybe I'm mistaken, that the oceans are fairly well covered by highly sensitive listening devices?

ohnonotgmail

InTheTrees wrote: »

You say that with such confidence.

I thought, but maybe I'm mistaken, that the oceans are fairly well covered by highly sensitive listening devices?

the russian nuclear subs couldnt even move in the atlantic without the us navy knowing where they were. and they are are lot stealthier than a NK diesel that needs to surface regularly. i doubt a NK sub could even leave harbour without the US navy knowing.

Cheerful Spring

InTheTrees wrote: »

You say that with such confidence.

I thought, but maybe I'm mistaken, that the oceans are fairly well covered by highly sensitive listening devices?

This event 6 years ago is still unexplained. Military experts in the know said it was a missile.

Zebra3

SeanW wrote: »

Why not? Red China created North Korea because they didn't want a democracy on their borders.

Go on, explain to us all what democracy "Red" China was worried about on its borders when NK came into existence?

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the russian nuclear subs couldnt even move in the atlantic without the us navy knowing where they were. and they are are lot stealthier than a NK diesel that needs to surface regularly. i doubt a NK sub could even leave harbour without the US navy knowing.

No# http://uk.businessinsider.com/heres-why-north-koreas-decrepit-submarine-force-still-freaks-out-the-south-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

Have to remember most of the submarines will not be able to travel further out, but they are building new subs for attacks outside their border. They don't have to travel right up to the coast of America to fire the missile, they just need to get close enough for it to reach. This will likely be a suicide mission.

archer22

Curly Judge wrote: »

An awful pity that General Matthew B Ridgway didn't go all the way to the Yalu River at the end of the Korean War.
The only thing that stood in his way was the cautiousness of President Truman.
The Chinese army was a busted flush at that stage.

No the Chinese army was not a "busted flush" at that stage...in fact the Chinese army the PLA had not even entered the war.The Chinese that swarmed across the Yalu river were volunteers and they were only light infantry, but fearsome fighters who sent the American army on the longest retreat in their history.

The Chinese tactic was to camoflauge themselves by day and attack after dark by crawling into the American lines and knifing them to death...a tactic that terrified Americans and their so called UN allies who found all their mighty long range weapons to be useless against those hand to hand fighters...in the end only over extended supply lines and lack of Air cover stopped the advance of those volunteers, but there was no "busted flush" the real Chinese army was still in reserve

InTheTrees

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

but they are building new subs for attacks outside their border.

Ah right. Super stealth nuke subs right? That'll probably take them another twenty years.

Cheerful Spring

InTheTrees wrote: »

Ah right. Super stealth nuke subs right? That'll probably take them another twenty years.

U-boats traveled from France to Ireland even beyond that. That's 1940 technology. You really think 1960 subs can't travel further? You have to ignore Western Intelligence. The very same people who talk about NK subs said NK was 3 to 4 years away from firing an ICBM that could reach America.

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

No the Chinese army was not a "busted flush" at that stage...in fact the Chinese army the PLA had not even entered the war.The Chinese that swarmed across the Yalu river were volunteers and they were only light infantry, but fearsome fighters who sent the American army on the longest retreat in their history.

The Chinese tactic was to camoflauge themselves by day and attack after dark by crawling into the American lines and knifing them to death...a tactic that terrified Americans and

They were Chinese army with full command from the leadership ,
Their main tactic was to Carry out attacks of human waves where thousands of men would charge directly at UN lines breaking through in some parts and causing confusion ,

Explains how they lost around 1 million men in combat ,cannon fodder

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

U-boats traveled from France to Ireland even beyond that. That's 1940 technology. You really think 1960 subs can't travel further? You have to ignore Western Intelligence. The very same people who talk about NK subs said NK was 3 to 4 years away from firing an ICBM that could reach America.

the technology to detect subs has improved just a bit in the last 50 years.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

U-boats traveled from France to Ireland even beyond that. That's 1940 technology. You really think 1960 subs can't travel further?.

You would have to be wonder why you think north Korea can build subs that can beat underwater detection and satallite surveillance amongst other technology ,and sail close to america to get a single missle off ,

Now china did get a submarine close to an American naval excerise but it was known from the start it was there ,
No real Surprise

Chiparus

If the US attacked it would be a breach of the ceasefire, China won!d be forced to respond in kind .

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the technology to detect subs has improved just a bit in the last 50 years.

North Pacific Ocean is vast. The ICBM missile the NK fired has a range of 8,000 km.. That literally means they can position thousands of miles away when firing and still hit Washington.

The unknown is have they got the technology to do that. Nobody can say for certain they haven't.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

You would have to be wonder why you think north Korea can build subs that can beat underwater detection and satallite surveillance amongst other technology ,and sail close to america to get a single missle off ,

Now china did get a submarine close to an American naval excerise but it was known from the start it was there ,
No real Surprise

9/11 should tell you something about their response time. Submarine is underwater what use is a satellite?

end of the road

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

dont go getting stroppy because you post nonsense and other people correct it.

except he didn't post nonsense and it wasn't corrected. he posted a fact and it couldn't be disproven.

Cheerful Spring

Chiparus wrote: »

If the US attacked it would be a breach of the ceasefire, China won!d be forced to respond in kind .

Will Trump use nuclear weapons or go conventional, to attack. I don't see NK starting this war. It be Trump and hes White House staff signing off on it.

archer22

Gatling wrote: »

They were Chinese army with full command from the leadership ,
Their main tactic was to Carry out attacks of human waves where thousands of men would charge directly at UN lines breaking through in some parts and causing confusion ,

Explains how they lost around 1 million men in combat ,cannon fodder

I will reply this to your post although I know it won't interest you as you only accept hollywood 'history...but others may find it of interest. www.revcom.us/a/v22/1060-69/1060/korea2.htm

Zebra3

Sad that people are talking about NK attacking the US.

Same lies about Iraq possibly attacking Britain cost a lot of people their lives.....

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Submarine is underwater what use is a satellite?

It's pretty obvious Actually

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

U-boats traveled from France to Ireland even beyond that. That's 1940 technology. You really think 1960 subs can't travel further? You have to ignore Western Intelligence. The very same people who talk about NK subs said NK was 3 to 4 years away from firing an ICBM that could reach America.

Its not about how far they can travel it's how noisy they are. Guaranteed US and Britain have at least one sub lurking off the coast of NK at any given time. Japan, China and South Korea also would probably have subs based off the coast.

NK sub would not get out of its own waters before their exact position would be known.

BillyBobBS

Zebra3 wrote: »

Sad that people are talking about NK attacking the US.

Same lies about Iraq possibly attacking Britain cost a lot of people their lives.....

Eh the difference is NK has nuclear weapons and ICBM's. They also run propaganda on state TV calling for the destruction of the US. Nobody needs to make any lies up about NK, they are a very real threat. My personal opinion is that the US over the next 6-12 months will racket up the pressure on China to make a move and if that fails they will take Kim and the leadership out with a surgical strike and see where the cards fall.

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

NK sub would not get out of its own waters before their exact position would be known.

We all thought that before 9/11 and took them nearly two hours to get military aircraft over New York. And everyone was watching this on TV for over an hour.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We all thought that before 9/11 and took them nearly two hours to get military aircraft over New York. And everyone was watching this on TV for over an hour.

what exactly is the comparison you think you are making?

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what exactly is the comparison you think you are making?

In a wartime scenario. You do not react perfectly, and lot of mistakes will be made. NK has 50 subs or more they going to set sail if they see a war coming and no way we will find them all.