US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Cheerful Spring

Ipso wrote: »

Come on, save it for conspiracy theory forums.

Imperialists love war and killing innocent people.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Soviet version of how the Korean war started.


In the beginning of 1949 the Soviet embassy began to alert the Kremlin to the growing number of violations of the 38th parallel by South Korean police and armed force. On 3 February 1949 Soviet Ambassador to North Korea Shtykov bitterly complained that the North Koreans did not have enough trained personnel, adequate weapons and sufficient number of bullets to rebuff intensifying incursions from the South. Receiving Kim II Sung in the Kremlin on 5 March 194, Stalin showed an open concern about growing pressure from the opponent in the vicinity of the 38th parallel and emphatically told Kim "The 38th parallel must be peaceful. It is very important." (2)

On 17 April 1949, Stalin informed his ambassador of an imminent attack from the South. The Soviet ambassador confirmed that a large-scale war was being prepared by Seoul with the help of Americans and raised alarm about the inability of North Korean troops to withstand the aggression. (3) In May-August 1949 the Kremlin and Pyongyang continued to exchange data about a possible attack from the South. The USSR was clearly afraid of such an attack, and was nervous not knowing pondered how to prevent the war. Stalin repeatedly castigated Ambassador Shtykov for failing to do everything in his power to maintain peace on the 38th parallel.

the North Korean leadership increasingly put pressure on the Kremlin, demanding permission to liberate the South. On 7 March 1949, while talking to Stalin in Moscow, Kim II Sung said: "We believe that the situation makes it necessary and possible to liberate the whole country through military means." The Soviet leader disagreed, citing the military weakness of the North, the USSR-USA agreement on the 38th parallel and the possibility of American intervention.

This is history that don't get thought. The North and South was preparing to attack each other. There was no innocent party in all this.

you have never said a truer thing.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Imperialists love war and killing innocent people.

So the north invading the south isnt the action of an imperialist?

ilkhanid

Gatling wrote: »

No they are pointed at North Korea ,

What's next elmer russia

They're not pointed at anybody.

"Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD), is an American anti-ballistic missile defense system designed to shoot down short, medium and intermediate ballistic missiles in their terminal phase (descent or re-entry) by interception.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The difference is South Korean transgressions are not reported by the media! North does something the world media talks about it.

Be our guest. Detail these transgressions.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

China and Soviet Union was not interested in starting a major war, good for them. America was more interesting in fighting communism, that's about it. They should have just let the Korean people at it, and maybe today there would be no nuclear missiles pointed at them.

No, they just gave Kim Il-Sung the nod to do it, thinking it would be a walkover

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

presumably by reunification you mean let the north roll over the south? I'm sure that would have worked out splendidly for all.

Did letting the USSR roll over Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria work out well in the end?

Gringo180 wrote: »

Also sent out of Iraq and Afghanistan with there tails firmly between there legs.

When did this happen? As I recall the US evacuated most of its army from Iraq because the Shia-led government demanded that they go (and I bet they bitterly regretted that when IS went on the rampage)

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So the north invading the south isnt the action of an imperialist?

Another dumb question. This is why nuclear war is inevitable, too many humans with tunnel vision and only see one way or another. Trump and he's cronies have tunnel vision, like some of you people. Anyway i am out for the day.

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Another dumb question. This is why nuclear war is inevitable, too many humans with tunnel vision and only see one way or another. Trump and he's cronies have tunnel vision, like some of you people. Anyway i am out for the day.

Off to make up more quotes people didn't actually say. Good luck with that.

Gatling

ilkhanid wrote: »

They're not pointed at anybody.

THAAD

Very well versed on THAAD and its capabilities .

Doesn't explain why china and russia said they would disrupt the systems

ilkhanid

Gringo180 wrote: »

Do you honestly think the Americans care about North Koreans human rights? They wiped out around 6-7 million of them in the 3 years of saturation bombing in the 50s, which included chemical attacks.

If Kim is to be taking out it has to be by the international community and not the gunho Americans as everything they touch they make a bolllocks of.

Idiot! I suggest you read the most elementary account of the Korean War before waffling on with this hyperbolic nonsense. The casualties of North Korea, South Korea, the USA, other allied nations and China combined didn't amount to half of that.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Only pop music that is American and South Korean and Japanese. Chinese and Russian pop music is allowed. North Korea actually is not that restrictive. Chinese modern clothes are worn by the North Korean people. They have stores that have Chinese goods, computers, tv's, washing machines.

Computers? Presumably they can access the Internet so? According to refugees people can be arrested for accessing South Korea television.

archer22 wrote: »

The people who fled Vietnam (the boat people) were mostly ethnic Chinese...the exodus began in 1979 when China and Vietnam had a major falling out resulting in some military clashes along the border.
The ethnic Chinese who had been living in Vietnam for generations bore the brunt of Vietnamese anger towards China.

Aah! So that's all right so! Tell me..what is your opinion on ..this. Take it as lightly as the Vietnamese maltreatment of the Chinese. do you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

"Following the war, the Vietnamese leadership took various repressive measures to deal with the problem of real or potential collaboration. In the spring of 1979, the authorities expelled approx. 8,000 Hoa people from Hanoi to the southern "New Economic Zones," and partially resettled the Hmong tribes and other ethnic minorities from the northernmost provinces".
"After the Saigon evacuation, the numbers of Vietnamese leaving their country remained relatively small until mid-1978. A number of factors contributed to the refugee crisis, including economic hardship and wars between Vietnam, China, and Cambodia. In addition, up to 300,000 people, especially those associated with the former government of South Vietnam, were sent to re-education camps, where many endured torture, starvation, and disease while being forced to perform hard labor. In addition, 1 million people, mostly city dwellers, "volunteered" to live in "New Economic Zones" where they were to survive by reclaiming land and clearing jungle to grow crops.

Repression was especially severe on the Hoa, the ethnic Chinese population of Vietnam. Because of increasing tensions between Vietnam and China, which ultimately resulted in China's 1979 invasion of Vietnam, the Hoa were seen by the Vietnamese government as a security threat.They also controlled much of the retail trade in South Vietnam, and the communist government increasingly levied them with taxes, restrictions on trade, and confiscations of their businesses. In May 1978, the Hoa began to leave Vietnam in large numbers for China, initially by land. By the end of 1979, resulting from the Sino-Vietnamese War, 250,000 Hoa had sought refuge in China and many tens of thousands more were among the boat people scattered all over Southeast Asia and in Hong Kong.[
The Vietnamese government and its officials profited from the outflow of refugees, especially the often well-to-do Hoa. The price for obtaining exits permits, documentation, and a boat or ship, often derelict, to leave Vietnam was reported to be the equivalent of $3,000 for adults and half that for children. These payments were often made in the form of gold bars. Many poorer Vietnamese left their country secretly without documentation and in flimsy boats, and these were the most vulnerable to pirates and storms while at sea."
Charming.

Gringo180

Best thing the Americans can do is leave the South, Japan and China to sort this mess out, North Korea are militarily so over rated. They wont use Nuclear weapons because they will be incinerated within hours and not a chance they can strike Guam which is 2000 km away with liquid fuelled rockets from the 70s. There not only having trouble feeding there population but there having trouble feeding there troops. Let the South Koreans, Japan and China sort it out because anything America touches they make a mess of it.

Dont let the American pro war propaganda fool us again.

Gringo180

ilkhanid wrote: »

Idiot! I suggest you read the most elementary account of the Korean War before waffling on with this hyperbolic nonsense. The casualties of North Korea, South Korea, the USA, other allied nations and China combined didn't amount to half of that.

See you ye clown ye if you read further on you will see I corrected myself and said the death toll was "ONLY" 1.8 million.

Mod-Banned, personal abuse.

ohnonotgmail

ilkhanid wrote: »

ohnonotgmail wrote:

presumably by reunification you mean let the north roll over the south? I'm sure that would have worked out splendidly for all.

Did letting the USSR roll over Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria work out well in the end.

My post was sarcastic. perhaps that wasnt clear enough.

ilkhanid

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There is prisons in North Korea, but how badly do they threat the prisoners?

Some pictures from survivors

bear1

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

American media Kim is starving he's people.

Reality again. North Korea’s economy grew in 2016 at the fastest pace since 1999, helped by a recovery from a drought in 2015

Military spending, mining, manufacturing, and utilities such as electricity, gas, and water supplies.

Mining increased 8.4 percent on higher coal and lead production.
Manufacturing expanded 4.8 percent.
Utilities production jumped 22.3 percent, the biggest gain since the BOK started releasing data in 1990, due to increased water and thermal power output.

Smart move to not waste money, on tanks, airplanes. If you got nuclear weapons why bother?

I hear north Korea won the world cup?

Ipso

ilkhanid wrote: »

Some pictures from survivors

If only they tried more communism.

Gatling

bear1 wrote: »

I hear north Korea won the world cup?

18-0

And Kim scored all the goals

4068ac1elhodqr

'fire & fury' (us) vs 'final doom' (nk)

Pretty sure these are both early titles from Playstation.

bear1

The call of duty makers must be delighted that their new game is being written for them.

Hastentoadd

bear1 wrote: »

The call of duty makers must be delighted that their new game is being written for them.

even the players wouldn't buy this stupid take on reality

Cheerful Spring

We entering a dangerous new phase. This could easily could go the wrong way. Australia said they join America if the North attacks first. UK said the join if war is declared against North Korea by America.

Chinese Media
If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea's government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday.
The widely read state-run Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily, wrote in an editorial that Beijing is not able to persuade either Washington or Pyongyang to back down.

"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand," said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

"China should also make clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten U.S. soil first and the U.S. retaliates, China will stay neutral," it added.

"If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so."

We ****ing end up with a war with China if we not careful. And UK we be nuked if they are involved, idiots.

somefeen

You are kinda getting into a WWII scenario now.

Too many countries with alliances and agreements to defend each other, a few nations wanting to enforce/strengthen/create their 'empire' ( the new empires aren't as obvious).
Pretty much the set up for WWII.

These things always have a few pieces laid out as a foundation but its usually a 'black swan' event that kicks everything off. The unknown unknown. The things we dont even know could be a factor or something that seemed incredibly unlikely. That could be Trump firing first which by the looks of the above post will drag quiet a few countries into conflict.

That said, I reckon we'll go to the winchester and wait for all this to blow over.

Hastentoadd

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We entering a dangerous new phase. This could easily could go the wrong way. Australia said they join America if the North attacks first. UK said the join if war is declared against North Korea by America.

Chinese Media
If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea's government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday.
The widely read state-run Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily, wrote in an editorial that Beijing is not able to persuade either Washington or Pyongyang to back down.

"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand," said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

"China should also make clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten U.S. soil first and the U.S. retaliates, China will stay neutral," it added.

"If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so."

We ****ing end up with a war with China if we not careful. And UK we be nuked if they are involved, idiots.

I think they have an intelligence division so they can bypass your viewpoint and then consider other options

Manic Moran

Gatling wrote: »

josip wrote: »

Although the North Koreans have demonstrated that they can chuck them far, do we have any evidence that they can chuck them accurately?

Nothing one poster claimed they can hit with accuracy but nothing from experts ,
One thing that was pointed out the middle fired towards Japan broke up on re-entry which would suggest a less than capable device than scare mongering are claiming

An interesting commentary by the head of the US nuclear force a couple of days ago. http://breakingdefense.com/2017/08/kim-jong-un-has-a-lot-to-teach-pentagon-about-speed-gen-hyten/

"Look at Kim Jong Un. What he’s doing is testing, failing, testing, failing, testing, failing, testing and succeeding He’s learned how to go fast.”

He's right, too. Every time something goes wrong, lessons are learned. It doesn't matter if 8 of the last 10 tests were failures, if the engineers fix them. What only matters is what the most recent tests did. It's the same with the US's ABM system. Half the tests were failures. That doesn't mean that the system doesn't work reliably now, however. What have Kim's last couple of missiles done?

Smart move to not waste money, on tanks, airplanes. If you got nuclear weapons why bother?

All they have to do is go back about 70 years and find out what happened the first (and only) time a country took that philosophy. The end result was that an under-funded, under-trained military found itself getting steamrolled because, contrary to what the Air Force was saying about just dropping A-bombs on people, a competent conventional force was found to be necessary for incidentsfor which, perhaps, nuclear weapons might be a little inappropriate.

Trump is a moran

Wait, what!?

archer22

ilkhanid wrote: »

Idiot! I suggest you read the most elementary account of the Korean War before waffling on with this hyperbolic nonsense. The casualties of North Korea, South Korea, the USA, other allied nations and China combined didn't amount to half of that.



Computers? Presumably they can access the Internet so? According to refugees people can be arrested for accessing South Korea television.



Aah! So that's all right so! Tell me..what is your opinion on ..this. Take it as lightly as the Vietnamese maltreatment of the Chinese. do you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

"Following the war, the Vietnamese leadership took various repressive measures to deal with the problem of real or potential collaboration. In the spring of 1979, the authorities expelled approx. 8,000 Hoa people from Hanoi to the southern "New Economic Zones," and partially resettled the Hmong tribes and other ethnic minorities from the northernmost provinces".
"After the Saigon evacuation, the numbers of Vietnamese leaving their country remained relatively small until mid-1978. A number of factors contributed to the refugee crisis, including economic hardship and wars between Vietnam, China, and Cambodia. In addition, up to 300,000 people, especially those associated with the former government of South Vietnam, were sent to re-education camps, where many endured torture, starvation, and disease while being forced to perform hard labor. In addition, 1 million people, mostly city dwellers, "volunteered" to live in "New Economic Zones" where they were to survive by reclaiming land and clearing jungle to grow crops.

Repression was especially severe on the Hoa, the ethnic Chinese population of Vietnam. Because of increasing tensions between Vietnam and China, which ultimately resulted in China's 1979 invasion of Vietnam, the Hoa were seen by the Vietnamese government as a security threat.They also controlled much of the retail trade in South Vietnam, and the communist government increasingly levied them with taxes, restrictions on trade, and confiscations of their businesses. In May 1978, the Hoa began to leave Vietnam in large numbers for China, initially by land. By the end of 1979, resulting from the Sino-Vietnamese War, 250,000 Hoa had sought refuge in China and many tens of thousands more were among the boat people scattered all over Southeast Asia and in Hong Kong.[
The Vietnamese government and its officials profited from the outflow of refugees, especially the often well-to-do Hoa. The price for obtaining exits permits, documentation, and a boat or ship, often derelict, to leave Vietnam was reported to be the equivalent of $3,000 for adults and half that for children. These payments were often made in the form of gold bars. Many poorer Vietnamese left their country secretly without documentation and in flimsy boats, and these were the most vulnerable to pirates and storms while at sea."
Charming.

WTF!!

CruelCoin

Infini wrote: »

True but hes also has limitations placed on him by congress so he cant do everything he likes. He's also held reasonably accountable as well if he really does something out of bounds.

Impeachment is rather after the fact though, isn't it?

(Not saying he has done anything to deserve impeachment, just making an observation)

CruelCoin

Manic Moran wrote: »

What have Kim's last couple of missiles done?

Flown.

Now he just needs to nail down miniaturisation and he's set.

CruelCoin

Black jedi wrote: »

**** kim. I say nuke him now get rid of him. He is scum. Threatening millions of innocents wit nukes. Nuke him before he hatches. N.korea is size of ireland. Two nukes should do it.

Nuke Kim and the millions of innocents living alongside him?
For a threat to shoot missiles in the vicinity of Guam?

Yeah, no.

Wanderer78

Black jedi wrote:

Trump is a moran. Someone should shoot him before he brings us to ww3. He can hide in a bunker while the rest of us perish.

He certainly is a Moran, always has been, always will be, but it's important to know, he actually has very little power. His position only fuels his narcissistic tendencies, but the real problem here is actually the republican party in itself. I completely agree with noam chomsky here, it no longer is a political party, it's an organisation of highly dangerous individuals and groups with extreme views including fuelling conflicts, I.e. getting rid of trump will have little or no effect

Akrasia

Wanderer78 wrote: »

He certainly is a Moran, always has been

If he is a Moran, he's funny, kinda, but not as funny as his cousin Dylan

Akrasia

Wanderer78 wrote: »

He certainly is a Moran, always has been, always will be, but it's important to know, he actually has very little power. His position only fuels his narcissistic tendencies, but the real problem here is actually the republican party in itself. I completely agree with noam chomsky here, it no longer is a political party, it's an organisation of highly dangerous individuals and groups with extreme views including fuelling conflicts, I.e. getting rid of trump will have little or no effect

Chomsky describes the Republican party as an organisation dedicated to the destruction of human civilisation.

He's kinda right though, when you consider their main positions are:
babies for all, (over population be damned)
Promotion of fossil fuels despite the climate change crisis
and perpetual war, up to and including nuclear first strikes.

ilkhanid

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

America is an invading power a foreign power. How wrong of them to want to have unification of their country? North Korea actually barely threatens South Korea. It threatens the leadership of South Korea and the US military based there.

Yes, it's wrong of them to attempt to impose their will on the population of South Korea...unless you're going to come out with the ludicrous proposition that the population are chafing under the rule of their-democratic-government and want to rejoin their northern brethern under the tender rule of the Kims!
And next you'll tell us that the artillery pieces aimed at Seoul will only target their government and not the general population. Since the general population of North Korea are the ones that suffer horribly under Kim rule, I doubt the population of the South are fooled. You sound as deluded as the Soviet propagandists-in good faith or cynically, who can tell-who used to try to convince the people of the GDR that the proletariet of the BRD, groaning under the oppression of the Capitalistic imperialists Neo-Nazis in Bonn were waiting for the wonderful GDR, Stasi and all, to liberate them.(although, God knows, the people of North Korea would have regarded the old GDR as a paradise on earth had they seen it.)

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

My post was sarcastic. perhaps that wasnt clear enough.

Pardon me. The point wasn't directed at you, but it seemed to be due to my sloppy editing.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

And some historians still debate about who attacked who first.

Not many, be assured. The Soviet envoy in Pyongyong in May 1950 gave Kim Stalin's all clear for the invasion...and a month later the war begins.