US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

archer22

gitzy16v wrote: »

Are we dead yet?

There are a couple of posters from here gone missing alright, might have died from exhaustion

Ipso

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If there is any war it's South Korea that will be leveled.

Maybe one city then everything will be unleashed on Cartman.

Let's say there is a war and it's fairly quick, dealing with "integrating" North Korea will be a mess.

gitzy16v

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The last week I've had the iodine tablets on the bedside locker, I will be grand .

Ah bollox...I ran out of e's years back and dropped them for a buzz...tinfoil yeh?tinfoil hat?fcuk it im covering the gaff...shiny side out to reflect?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The timeline this week.

Two supersonic nuclear bombers flew out of Guam on Monday and circled the Korean Peninsula

As American and Korean and Japanese aircraft have done for decades in Defence of south Korea.

Awful lot of warnings .

And only one country is Threatening others with Nuclear weapons ,

North Korea

archer22

China says it will prevent a US first strike against North Korea.

Well thats a powerful statement that tells the Orange Clown an attack on North Korea will get him and his country into serious sh*t

4068ac1elhodqr

archer22 wrote: »

China says it will prevent a US first strike against North Korea.

Well thats a powerful statement that tells the Orange Clown an attack on North Korea will get him and his country into serious sh*t

Source?

There is only a mention that if NK attack the US, then China won't protect them, which is the opposite to what you said.

4068ac1elhodqr

Ah see it now^, Global Times (state owned) says they'll intervene US strikes 1st, but will remain neutral if NK does 1st.

But what if NK drops four just off the coast of Guam in international waters... Stalemate.

archer22

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Source?

There is only a mention that if NK attack the US, then China won't protect them, which is the opposite to what you said.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4780602/China-stop-America-attacks-North-Korea-first.html

4068ac1elhodqr

archer22 wrote: »

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4780602/China-stop-America-attacks-North-Korea-first.html

Yes but you only mentioned one side, it said they'll intervene US strikes 1st, but will remain neutral and stay out of it if NK does 1st.

It leaves the question, if they drop something (x4) 40km off the coast of Guam is that considered an attack on US soil? Almost certainly....

nb. It's only 14mins from launch to call the expected landing location, (within those +/- 40kms).

archer22

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Yes but you only mentioned one side, it said they'll intervene US strikes 1st, but will remain neutral and stay out of it if NK does 1st.

It leaves the question, if they drop something (x4) 40km off the coast of Guam is that considered an attack on US soil? Almost certainly....

nb. It's only 14mins from launch to call the expected landing location, (within those +/- 40kms).

North Korea isn't going to attack the United States or drop anything near Guam, all that kind of talk has been coming from North Korea for years.

The likely one to launch an attack is Trump..(his recent attack on Syria shows his mindset).

Well now he has the sobering thought that any Syria type attack on North Korea means a massive war with China.

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

..(his recent attack on Syria shows his mindset).

Which attack is this,

China is not going to war the last time they got involved they lost around 1 million men ,
All they got in return was Kim and his father

archer22

Gatling wrote: »

Which attack is this,

China is not going to war the last time they got involved they lost around 1 million men ,
All they got in return was Kim and his father

Cruise missile attack after accusing Syrian army of gas attack without any evidence.

China has around 700 million people of military age...1 million is nothing to them

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

Cruise missile attack after accusing Syrian army of gas attack without any evidence.

But when the UN wanted to investigate russia blocked any investigation ,

Odd .

You think they will Risk losing millions or hundreds of millions for Kim ,

Don't think anyone would believe that

4068ac1elhodqr

archer22 wrote: »

North Korea isn't going to attack the United States or drop anything near Guam, all that kind of talk has been coming from North Korea for years.

The risk however does lie with NK currently, they plan to throw their sticks at Guam mid-August. Even now their preparing some sort of missile test, probably again in the direction of Japan.

The US only said the would only respond to 'actions' from nk, not just to their statements. Again, only as retaliation to actions.

Bear in mind NK don't really have anyone on their side, as such.
Whereas SK, Jap, UK and now ANZUS have come out in full support of the US.

I don't see China going to war and alienating itself from so much of the world to prop up a tinpot dictatorship that what, keeps South Korea away from invading it by land? That must be a pretty low level threat anyway. Or stops the US having allies against its borders? Sure isn't India a major defence partner of the USA anyway, with a much larger border with China. The potential for only incurring losses in aligning itself with NK surely far exceed the far fewer benefits that may accrue.

XsApollo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't see China going to war and alienating itself from so much of the world to prop up a tinpot dictatorship that what, keeps South Korea away from invading it by land? That must be a pretty low level threat anyway. Or stops the US having allies against its borders? Sure isn't India a major defence partner of the USA anyway, with a much larger border with China. The potential for only incurring losses in aligning itself with NK surely far exceed the far fewer benefits that may accrue.

The reason China don't want the south to absolve the north is that the US will start deploying military and will eventually try to snooker China as they have been trying for a long time with Russia.

Russia has fought back and I bet China would too.
I don't think the US wants a war with China or Russia for that matter.
Trumps only hope of getting rid of Kim is by assassinating him or that one of these missiles land in the wrong place like Japan or the south.

archer22

Gatling wrote: »

But when the UN wanted to investigate russia blocked any investigation ,

Odd .

You think they will Risk losing millions or hundreds of millions for Kim ,

Don't think anyone would believe that

Who is going to kill all those" millions or hundreds of millions"...a few old Carrier groups that would likely be heading to the sea floor in the first days of the conflict

The world has moved on since the 1950s, China is now a high tech industrialised massive Nation with lots of new potentially game changing weapons

America is still sailing around in Aircraft carriers same as they were 70 years ago...and all those things are today to a high tech country is Ducks in a shooting gallery

Nettle Soup

XsApollo wrote: »

I don't think the US wants a war with China or Russia for that matter.

How can people even consider this as a possibility? There will never be a war between the USA and China/Russia. It's a lose-lose. The people of China laugh at Kim and wonder what all the fuss is about. China cares about one thing - business. As long as Kim does not impact business-as-usual, they will ignore his rantings. They will similarly ignore Trumps rantings. They will even ignore the war mongers on Boards.

The only "solution" to this "problem" (i.e. storm in a teacup) lies with the people of North Korea. Killing Kim will just mean he is replaced by some other despot. The people need to revolt and create a new North Korea. It may well happen.

bilston

archer22 wrote: »

North Korea isn't going to attack the United States or drop anything near Guam, all that kind of talk has been coming from North Korea for years.

The likely one to launch an attack is Trump..(his recent attack on Syria shows his mindset).

Well now he has the sobering thought that any Syria type attack on North Korea means a massive war with China.

Which China will lose, hence there will be no war with China.

Edit - of course America would incur devastating losses in such a war as well that in reality there would be no real winners, just losers, but the point is China's military is not yet a match for the United States so they will not be wanting a war with the US anytime soon.

archer22

Nettle Soup wrote: »

How can people even consider this as a possibility? There will never be a war between the USA and China/Russia. It's a lose-lose. The people of China laugh at Kim and wonder what all the fuss is about. China cares about one thing - business. As long as Kim does not impact business-as-usual, they will ignore his rantings. They will similarly ignore Trumps rantings. They will even ignore the war mongers on Boards.

The only "solution" to this "problem" (i.e. storm in a teacup) lies with the people of North Korea. Killing Kim will just mean he is replaced by some other despot. The people need to revolt and create a new North Korea. It may well happen.

You are forgetting China's history...they have been focked around by westerners and Japs just as much as North Korea has, and it's something they have not forgotten either.

While they are not as paranoid about it as NK, it is none the less a sore point with them and there is a determination to ensure it never ever happens again.
They will never allow themselves to be dictated to or humiliated by western nations again.

To claim that they are only interested in money and nothing else is very insulting and shows total lack of understanding of the PRC and its people

archer22

Anyhow Trump is now making military threats against Venezuela...so he is obviously looking for a distraction so he can quietly slip out of the mess he has got himself into with North Korea.

He sees Venezuela as being a victim more within his military capabilities.

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

Anyhow Trump is now making military threats against Venezuela...so he is obviously looking for a distraction so he can quietly slip out of the mess he has got himself into with North Korea.

He sees Venezuela as being a victim more within his military capabilities.

Lol

ilkhanid

XsApollo wrote: »

The reason China don't want the south to absolve the north is that the US will start deploying military and will eventually try to snooker China as they have been trying for a long time with Russia.

I think you meant "absorb".
There is no reason to believe that the USA and China are on some inevitable path of confrontation. The USA and China have many commercial links that wouod make conflict painful for both. Even Trump has dialled down his rhetoric about China's supposed "cheating".
The main reason for the American presence in South Korea is North Korea. I doubt that the ROK, in the event of the removal of that threat, would have any reason to host a substantial American force, base or THAAD missiles. The ROK is not unfriendly towards China on principle, and ,indeed, before the THAAD business it had relations with China that were at least as cordial as those the North had with China. There is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be amenable to a more neutral stance. It's lack of imagination that is stopping creative solutions to these problems.

archer22 wrote: »

You are forgetting China's history...they have been focked around by westerners and Japs just as much as North Korea has, and it's something they have not forgotten either.
They will never allow themselves to be dictated to or humiliated by western nations again.

It's well to remember that they did a fair amount of f*cking around with other people-notably Vietnam-over the centuries, and part of their anger at the humiliation they suffered in the 19th century comes from a sense of entitlement. Even the very name of the Chinese state, the Central Nation (or the Middle Kingdom) as it used to be called, conveys that sense of self-importance.

Avatar MIA

archer22 wrote: »

shows total lack of understanding of the PRC and its people

It's hard to say what it's billion + people think what with living within a authoritarian state.

Zebra3

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see China going to war and alienating itself from so much of the world to prop up a tinpot dictatorship that what, keeps South Korea away from invading it by land? That must be a pretty low level threat anyway. Or stops the US having allies against its borders? Sure isn't India a major defence partner of the USA anyway, with a much larger border with China. The potential for only incurring losses in aligning itself with NK surely far exceed the far fewer benefits that may accrue.

The Korean Peninsula though is much closer in a strategic sense than India.

ArchXStanton

bilston wrote: »

Which China will lose, hence there will be no war with China.

Edit - of course America would incur devastating losses in such a war as well that in reality there would be no real winners, just losers, but the point is China's military is not yet a match for the United States so they will not be wanting a war with the US anytime soon.

Never underestimate the resilience of Asians,there is millions of them,like an ant colony,Vietnam should have been a lesson to the US were even simple bamboo punji traps caused scores of casualties

Cheerful Spring

ilkhanid wrote: »

I think you meant "absorb".
There is no reason to believe that the USA and China are on some inevitable path of confrontation. The USA and China have many commercial links that wouod make conflict painful for both. Even Trump has dialled down his rhetoric about China's supposed "cheating".
The main reason for the American presence in South Korea is North Korea. I doubt that the ROK, in the event of the removal of that threat, would have any reason to host a substantial American force, base or THAAD missiles. The ROK is not unfriendly towards China on principle, and ,indeed, before the THAAD business it had relations with China that were at least as cordial as those the North had with China. There is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be amenable to a more neutral stance. It's lack of imagination that is stopping creative solutions to these problems.

Do you know current affairs? China and America are at each throats over the South China Seas for over 2 years. It's only a matter of when not if they go to war. The Chinese media said it's government should help NK if America strikes first.

Nettle Soup

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Do you know current affairs? China and America are at each throats over the South China Seas for over 2 years. It's only a matter of when not if they go to war. The Chinese media said it's government should help NK if America strikes first.

This is utter nonsense.

Cheerful Spring

Nettle Soup wrote: »

This is utter nonsense.

Which part?

Nettle Soup

archer22 wrote: »

You are forgetting China's history...they have been focked around by westerners and Japs just as much as North Korea has, and it's something they have not forgotten either.

I did not forget. An irrelevant point.

archer22 wrote: »

While they are not as paranoid about it as NK, it is none the less a sore point with them and there is a determination to ensure it never ever happens again.
They will never allow themselves to be dictated to or humiliated by western nations again.

I am saying repeatedly that nothing will happen. It's a storm in a teacup. China laugh at Kim. He is a figure of ridicule and Trump is not far behind. Where and how will China be humiliated??? The only fear China have is that NK gets destabilised and millions of NZ citizens flee over the border into China. Unlikely but they will handle it.

archer22 wrote: »

To claim that they are only interested in money and nothing else is very insulting and shows total lack of understanding of the PRC and its people

I did not say money. I said business. Since Xiaoping's first economic reform policies in 1978, China have enjoyed approx 10% of GDP growth annually. China's poverty levels declined from 41% of the population to 5% from 1978 to 2001. Why would they change things? They are not idiots. They are taking over the world economically.