US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

ilkhanid

Zebra3 wrote: »

What we all know is that the US has a far greater number of missiles than NK and is much keener to use them, and is much happier slaughtering people around the world than NK is.

When NK gets the opportunity it seems very happy to slaughter (not to mention kidnap) but maybe South Koreans and Japanese don't count in your book.

Zebra3 wrote: »

But you're happy enough to see a man who depends on the support of neo-nazis threaten "random" nations around the world because they don't bow down to the US.

Random? The Kims have been on the world's radar for quite some time now. American presidents come and go but the Kims keep up their threats.

seiphil wrote: »

Yes, they are paranoid. They have every right to be. But no, not everything is staged. Of course they put events on for guests etc because they do want to be seen in a good light. But life also goes on around them..

Oh. Sounds so harmless. They put on events for guests. They keep entire churches of fake parishioners and priests to cod foreigners. But sure no harm done. A big fan of Catherine the Great's Potemkin villages, are you? Approve of that? The playwright Ernst Toller went to visit the USSR in 1929. He was showed a "model"prison full of contented, rehabilitated prisoners (He didn't get as far as the Lubyanka, the Butkyra or the Lefortovo, needless to say) but, sure, what harm? Wasn't it just the leaders of the USSR wanting to be seen in a good light?
Ever heard about.....this? https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007463
Nothing to worry about, just the leaders of nazi Germany wanting to be seen in a good light.

seiphil wrote: »

The Famine in North Korea was generally down to sanctions and drought. Only certain countries are allowed trade with NK and it's not enough to feed the country. The food that they did have went to the army. If they don't feed the army they wouldn't have an army to defend itself. Whether you like it or not is North Korea's best interests. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have a North Korea then..

The famine was down to the savage, command economy of North Korea that sees the people as a sponge to be squeezed to feed the maw of the army. They made a choice, army first, people second. Yet it's the fault of the rest of the world?. Having the fourth largest army in the world is in the best interests of North Korea. Really? You mean its in the best interests of the Kim regime. Army before people. Kim regime before people. If you really imagine that the Kims really rule on behalf of the people of North Korea and not just themselves then you're wasted here on Boards.ie. You deserve to be on Comedy Roadshow.

seiphil wrote: »

Look America are of course not to blame for everything.

No sh1t!

seiphil wrote: »

But they are heavily involved and a lot of the blame does land at their feet. They are still technically still at war so the 6 decades of threatening invasions and attacks is not that surprising. It also goes both ways.

They are still technically at war, but neither the US or South Korea have engaged in overt acts of War. North Korea does all the time and has done so over the decades: Infiltrating commandos, building invasion tunnels, dropping artillery barrages, chopping American soldiers up with axes....

Zebra3

Gatling wrote: »

So your crying about human rights again while cheering one of the worse Human rights abusers in the world ,

Sad really ,

Yemen what about Iran's involvement in the slaughter (whole different thread ) more faux outrage from the usual

But hey


Kim won't be around for long

I haven't been cheering Kim on, so less of the lies, please.

Zebra3

Ipso wrote: »

No, normal people condemn atrocities as they arise regardless of who commits it. People like you are soft defending dictators to score political points against opponents (mixed in with some ignorance and romanticism of certain failed ideologies).

I haven't been defending dictators, so less of your lies, please.

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

Do you ever say anything that makes sense?....or do you just love reading your own posts!!

Makes perfect sense like I said you read that on Sputnik ,

Enough said

Zebra3

ilkhanid wrote: »

When NK gets the opportunity it seems very happy to slaughter (not to mention kidnap) but maybe South Koreans and Japanese don't count in your book.



Random? The Kims have been on the world's radar for quite some time now. American presidents come and go but the Kims keep up their threats.

NK's killings and kidnapping are unacceptable. But minuscule in numbers compared to the number of human beings slaughtered and incinerated by the US. And don't forget about Amercia's gulag in Cuba, full of kidnap victims.

And the Kim's haven't been on "the world's radar" for some time. You're confusing the propaganda term "international community" which means the US and its bitches and the actual 200 or so countries that exist.

Surveys have constantly shown that the country that is seen as the number one threat to world peace is the US.

Amazing how easily people are brainwashed.

America: Let's bomb this country.

Gimps: Yay.

Ipso

Zebra3 wrote: »

NK's killings and kidnapping are unacceptable. But minuscule in numbers compared to the number of human beings slaughtered and incinerated by the US. And don't forget about Amercia's gulag in Cuba, full of kidnap victims.

And the Kim's haven't been on "the world's radar" for some time. You're confusing the propaganda term "international community" which means the US and its bitches and the actual 200 or so countries that exist.

Surveys have constantly shown that the country that is seen as the number one threat to world peace is the US.

Amazing how easily people are brainwashed.

America: Let's bomb this country.

Gimps: Yay.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening.
Lucky we have people like you who are not brain washed to tell us what's really happening.

ilkhanid

Zebra3 wrote: »

NK's killings and kidnapping are unacceptable. But minuscule in numbers compared to the number of human beings slaughtered and incinerated by the US. And don't forget about Amercia's gulag in Cuba, full of kidnap victims.

You know, I can't be the only one that has got fed up with the characterisatrion of the USA as some undiluted essence of evil, a charcterisation that ignores American politics, American elections, American adminstrations. There are no Democrats, no Republicans, just America..this unchanging..thing. No Kennedy, only Nixon, no Carter, only Reagan, No Obama, just Bush jr. and Trump. May I remind you that Obama spent years trying to put an end to Guantanamo only to be stymied by Congress and the Courts.
In any case, why keep going on about the USA as if the rest of the world doesn't count? It's all America, America, America. What about South Korea? What about Japan? Aren't they entitled to security? Aren't they entitled not to be harassed? Oh..I forgot. They don't count because they're America's bitches.

Zebra3 wrote: »

And the Kim's haven't been on "the world's radar" for some time. You're confusing the propaganda term "international community" which means the US and its bitches and the actual 200 or so countries that exist.

You see its the use of words like this that betray you as somebody with no interest in debate, just abusive and full of prejudice. The entire security council voted for sanctions against North Korea. So Bolivia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Italy, Senegal, Sweden, Ukraine, Uruguay, France, Kazakhistan, China and Russia are all America's "bitches" now? A statement so self-evidently abusive, nonsensical and daft as to be like something Trump would say. No seriousness, just a ranter and raver.

Zebra3

ilkhanid wrote: »

You know, I can't be the only one thats get fed up with the characterisatrion of the USA as some undiluted essence of evil, a charcterisation that ignores American politics, American elections, American adminstrations. There are no Democrats, no Republicans, just America..this unchanging..thing. No Kennedy, only Nixon, no Carter, only Reagan, No Obama, just Bush jr. and Trump. May I remind you that Obama spent years trying to put an end to Guantanamo only to be stymied by Congress and the Courts.



You see its the use of words like this that betray you as somebody with no interest in debate, just abusiveand full of prejudice. The entire security council voted for sanctions against North Korea. So Bolivia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Italy, Senegal, Sweden, Ukraine, Uruguay, France, Kazakhistan, China and Russia are all America's "bitches" now? A statement so self-evidently abusive, nonsensical and daft as to be like something Trump would say. No seriousness, just a ranter and raver.

Have you ever seen the list of wars that America has been involved in? It's non-stop. Along with its deep history of slavery, genocide (and let's throw in genocide denial too), land theft, ethnic cleansing, overthrowing of democracies, and support for barbaric dictators. You seem to think Kennedy and Obama were/are decent human beings? Incredible stuff.

You used the word "radar" re NK which is a military term. There's only one country looking to bomb it.

Yet strangely, that same country is not looking to bomb Saudi Arabia, instead supports the Islamic extremists who love chopping people's heads off.

Hammer89

flaneur wrote: »

Does the 'red button' actually do anything?

Not on the old NTL remotes anyway.

Irish Praetorian

Zebra3 wrote: »

Have you ever seen the list of wars that America has been involved in? It's non-stop. Along with its deep history of slavery, genocide (and let's throw in genocide denial too), land theft, ethnic cleansing, overthrowing of democracies, and support for barbaric dictators. You seem to think Kennedy and Obama were/are decent human beings? Incredible stuff.

You used the word "radar" re NK which is a military term. There's only one country looking to bomb it.

Yet strangely, that same country is not looking to bomb Saudi Arabia, instead supports the Islamic extremists who love chopping people's heads off.

History is non-stop, most of the crimes you ascribe to America were products of the nineteenth century when they weren't by any means unique. Overthrowing democracies/supporting dictators is usually mentioned in reference to it's actions during the Cold War, which quite frankly we're probably less damaging to those countries than having them become new North Koreas. As for Saudi Arabia, you're pushing an open door with me there.

The long and the short of it is the places the US intervenes in tended to be rather damaged before they intervened and will continue to be long after its departure. Given the choice of a flawed democracy as the planets premier power or some of the alternatives we presently have on offer, I'll settle for the imperfect US any day of the week.

ilkhanid

Zebra3 wrote: »

Have you ever seen the list of wars that America has been involved in? It's non-stop. Along with its deep history of slavery, genocide (and let's throw in genocide denial too), land theft, ethnic cleansing, overthrowing of democracies, and support for barbaric dictators. You seem to think Kennedy and Obama were/are decent human beings? Incredible stuff.

QED. Just one evil entity subsisting down the ages, in different shapes but always malovolent, no shades of grey. Just black. You'd think nobody else ever did anything bad.
Your examples. I think JFK was a deeply flawed man, but not an evil one.
Yes, I think Obama was a decent man who tried to put right-and often failed- much that was wrong, but I've no doubt you'll put me right with a litany of his evil deeds.

Zebra3 wrote: »

You used the word "radar" re NK which is a military term. There's only one country looking to bomb it.

So Trump is America now? State..country...one undivided entity?
Let's say he wants to bomb it (but I guess he'd rather the problem just went away). As I said there are other countries involved too. I doubt South Korea and Japan want to bomb the DPRK, but they sure want it to stop being a threat to them.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yet strangely, that same country is not looking to bomb Saudi Arabia, instead supports the Islamic extremists who love chopping people's heads off.

Not strange at all! Do you think the US government want's a good portion of the World's Muslims down on its neck, for that is what would happen to those who attack the country that guards the two Holy Shrines. It would make the invasion, occupation and the subsequent torrent of violence and chaos in Iraq look like a tea-party. Any more simplistic nostrums for us?

seiphil

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The air drills have been planned months ago.

It doesn't matter how long it's been planned for. If it's going to increase tensions then it shouldn't happen.

Gatling

seiphil wrote: »

It doesn't matter how long it's been planned for. If it's going to increase tensions then it shouldn't happen.

The same should be said for NK excerises and repeated threats to attack south Korea and further afield ,

A simple solution would be North Korea moves it's heavy artillery directed at seoul and Actually sat down with the south and came up with a plan to work together and eventual reunification .
But no they want nukes and other weapons to fire at the south ,

So we would be better off making sure south Korea and Japan ,the Philippines , Taiwan and Vietnam get nuclear weapons and modern Defence systems to counter threats from NK or China

BillyBobBS

It's laughable the way opinions are turning pro NK in the media because Trump has scored bigly getting them to back down. Kim Fat is an utterly disgusting human being who has let god knows how many of his own starve to death because he wants nukes to attack the US.

Incognito Mode > news.google.com > "North Korea Trump"

It's pretty easy to see why these morons are sympathetic to North Korea. It's clearly not poor little misunderstood Kim that's playing with fire, it's Trump.

The same people who are getting suckered into believing 60 millions Nazis voted for Trump are defending Asian Hitler.

Zebra3

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

History is non-stop, most of the crimes you ascribe to America were products of the nineteenth century when they weren't by any means unique. Overthrowing democracies/supporting dictators is usually mentioned in reference to it's actions during the Cold War, which quite frankly we're probably less damaging to those countries than having them become new North Koreas. As for Saudi Arabia, you're pushing an open door with me there.

The long and the short of it is the places the US intervenes in tended to be rather damaged before they intervened and will continue to be long after its departure. Given the choice of a flawed democracy as the planets premier power or some of the alternatives we presently have on offer, I'll settle for the imperfect US any day of the week.

The US overthrows democracies because they don't serve their interests, not because they are on their way to becoming another NK.

The US support of the terrorist regime in Chile that overthrew the democratically elected government is just one example. US threats to Haiti which interfered with its democratically elected government has left the country as one of the poorest in the world.

The US has no right to interfere in these countries and it says a lot about people and let's face it it's underlying racism "we know best".

This great piece shows why the US would be better off sorting out its domestic problems instead of slaughtering innocent people abroad and funding the war industry.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/08/16/what-if-western-media-covered-americas-white-tribalism-the-same-way-it-covers-other-nations/?utm_term=.06508655c729

seiphil

Deleted User wrote: »

Incognito Mode > news.google.com > "North Korea Trump"

It's pretty easy to see why these morons are sympathetic to North Korea. It's clearly not poor little misunderstood Kim that's playing with fire, it's Trump.

The same people who are getting suckered into believing 60 millions Nazis voted for Trump are defending Asian Hitler.

I couldn't give a fiddlers about Trump. He aint my president and he aint your's.

My problem is with the war hungry American's and it's cheerleaders.

Lets make it very simple....

North Korea is bad and Kim is evil. So is America and whoever they want to elect as president.

ilkhanid

seiphil wrote: »

My problem is with the war hungry American's and it's cheerleaders. .

America? Or Americans? Or what?

seiphil wrote: »

Lets make it very simple.....

As apart from confused (see above)

seiphil wrote: »

North Korea is bad and Kim is evil. So is America and whoever they want to elect as president.

A whole country is evil? Democrats, Republicans, Texans, Californians, New Englanders? Black, White, Polynesian, Native-American, Hispanic, Arab, Chinese,Irish? Every musician, every politician, every computer analyst, every executive, every dentist, every janitor, every journalist? Donald Trump, Donald Fagen, Elizabeth Warren, Eddie Murphy, Carl Bernstein, Frank Gehry, Paul Cohen...
Congratulations. You've exposed yourself as just as close-minded, bigoted, iliterate, thoughtless and incoherent as the absolute worst of the raving, 'Murica-first, Stars-and-stripes waving, pickup truck-driving, gun-toting, Trump-voting, tub-thumping, trailer park-inhabiting, Republican gutter. Their exact counterpart. No mean feat!

fxotoole

Gatling wrote: »

So we would be better off making sure south Korea and Japan ,the Philippines , Taiwan and Vietnam get nuclear weapons and modern Defence systems to counter threats from NK or China

Escalation is not the solution. If you arm everybody in the region with nukes, the next regional crisis that erupts is likely to kick off WW3.

North Korea's nuclear ambitions need to be put to an end to restore regional and global security.

Irish Praetorian

Zebra3 wrote: »

The US overthrows democracies because they don't serve their interests, not because they are on their way to becoming another NK.

The US support of the terrorist regime in Chile that overthrew the democratically elected government is just one example. US threats to Haiti which interfered with its democratically elected government has left the country as one of the poorest in the world.

The US has no right to interfere in these countries and it says a lot about people and let's face it it's underlying racism "we know best".

This great piece shows why the US would be better off sorting out its domestic problems instead of slaughtering innocent people abroad and funding the war industry.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/08/16/what-if-western-media-covered-americas-white-tribalism-the-same-way-it-covers-other-nations/?utm_term=.06508655c729

Sorry I didn't see this until now. To answer your points:

Which democracies? The usual one trotted out is Iran in the 1950s but quite frankly I struggle to find any example of overthrowing democracies since the close of the Cold War. Now you mention Chile as an example, in other words 45 years ago at the height of the Cold War and the extent of US support for that coup remains in dispute. Similarly Haiti, an actual example of intervention in 1994, was in favour of a democratically elected leader and targeted at a dictatorial regime. There is a problem of consistency if you are going to be angry at the US for not interfering in the Chile coup but then interfering in the Haiti democratic cause.

As for the charge of underlying racism, do you not find it ironic that you are laying a charge of racism at the grounds of a whole nation for the actions of its political elite? I readily agree with your argument about the US not getting involved so much overseas, but if we want to assess it's impact we must do so soberly and not, as appears to be common practice today, simply condemn every act of the US as slaughter whilst holding other states to lower standards.

Chiparus

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Sorry I didn't see this until now. To answer your points:

Which democracies? The usual one trotted out is Iran in the 1950s but quite frankly I struggle to find any example of overthrowing democracies since the close of the Cold War. Now you mention Chile as an example, in other words 45 years ago at the height of the Cold War and the extent of US support for that coup remains in dispute. Similarly Haiti, an actual example of intervention in 1994, was in favour of a democratically elected leader and targeted at a dictatorial regime. There is a problem of consistency if you are going to be angry at the US for not interfering in the Chile coup but then interfering in the Haiti democratic cause.

As for the charge of underlying racism, do you not find it ironic that you are laying a charge of racism at the grounds of a whole nation for the actions of its political elite? I readily agree with your argument about the US not getting involved so much overseas, but if we want to assess it's impact we must do so soberly and not, as appears to be common practice today, simply condemn every act of the US as slaughter whilst holding other states to lower standards.

https://www.infowars.com/obama-admits-u-s-overthrew-democratically-elected-ukrainian-government/

Irish Praetorian

Chiparus wrote: »

https://www.infowars.com/obama-admits-u-s-overthrew-democratically-elected-ukrainian-government/

Perhaps you should read a little less Alex Jones and take a more critical eye to unsubstantiated claims.

The headline makes one claim, the only 'evidence' referred to is Obama saying "after we brokered a deal" - in other words nothing. The US brokered a deal after the Maidan and the protests, well whoda thunk it? Evidence of some grand overthrow it ain't. And don't bother with that Nuland phone-call either, same deal; banal facts turned into hyperbolic nonsense.

Still, anything to stop them from using the tap-water to turn the freaking frogs gay

Gatling

It seems russia sent bombers to fly close to south Korean and US military excerises in a slightly bizarre show of strength .

And looking like NK fired another rocket off its coast this evening

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

It seems russia sent bombers to fly close to south Korean and US military excerises in a slightly bizarre show of strength .

Just a reminder that "they haven’t gone away", A US dominated Korean peninsular would be considered a threat by Russia, as well as China.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just a reminder that "they haven’t gone away", A US dominated Korean peninsular would be considered a threat by Russia, as well as China.

Yes but a little late to the game though things kinda settled down all of a sudden putin decides lets send our bombers over adding a little more spark to an already flammable situation ,

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

It seems russia sent bombers to fly close to south Korean and US military excerises in a slightly bizarre show of strength .

And looking like NK fired another rocket off its coast this evening

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Songun It's a holiday for them today. This not a big deal, or them about to start a war, for them it was just a celebration.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Songun It's a holiday for them today. This not a big deal, or them about to start a war, for them it was just a celebration.

That's if it's not a missle test ,

But it looks like a test Vs celebration fireworks

stevedublin

Gatling wrote: »

Yes but a little late to the game though things kinda settled down all of a sudden putin decides lets send our bombers over adding a little more spark to an already flammable situation ,

The Russian flypast doesn't seem to have had much effect though.
Not saying that things won't "blow up" soon, but that would depend on the actions of North Korea (or maybe US) imho.

Elmer Blooker

I presume Russian bombers are flying close to Korea because Russia IS close to Korea?



I think Reuters are in need of a geography lesson!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-southkorea-bombers-idUSKCN1B40MP

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I presume Russian bombers are flying close to Korea because

Russian nuclear Bombers flying toward south Korean forces because of what exactly...