US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Divelment

Muahahaha wrote: »

Good article here on the military options open to the US. Most of them arent great and are unlikely to avoid big losses of life. While Kim can be taken out he also has the ability to cause major damage to the South before that happens.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41095772

It's so regrettable to see this balking at the fact that war is hell. Hitler would never have been dealt with if the policy of appeasement had been pursued. While that policy was in place, the German war machine under Hitler just grew stronger and stronger. This is the same policy that successive US administrations have applied to North Korea. Appeasement has allowed KJY acquire nuclear weapons and a ballistic delivery system. Appeasement is working so well that this guy felt at ease enough on the world stage this week to send a missile over Japan.

Long story short, whatever the price that has to be paid, this guy has to be dealt with, firstly by taking him out with a surgical strike if he launches another missile, we cannot seriously be living in a world now where dictators heading up rogue states, can send ballistic missiles that could be nuclear armed, over neighbouring sovereign peaceful states.

Whatever Trump has to do, he should do it, if I were him, I'd tell him that the next time he does it will be his last time, and follow up strikes on the military regime to take out the leadership. Then work it out from there.

SSr0

Divelment wrote: »

The way to deal with KJY is for Trump to say, "launch one more missile and we're gonna take you out, that's it, YOU! We have the intelligence from the ground and the satellites and the drones in place to do it, so it isn't gonna be thousands killed next time you launch a missile, it's gonna be you and whoever is unlucky enough to be in the motorcade with you."

Do you think America knows, at anyway given time, where exactly he is? Because if so, surely they could assassinate him fairly easy no?

Nabber

Plenty of personal insults on KJY.

There is an over estimation on NKs military and an underestimation on SK military.
No doubt there would be hurt in SK, but ultimately they could railroad NK.

SK are backed by the largest military in the world and also hold popular opinion.

NK are not going to do anything and I think it's poor by Japan to allow hostile rockets fly over your airspace, armed or not.

Divelment

They might not know where he is every minute of the day but they have enough intel to take him out...

Divelment

Nabber wrote: »

Plenty of personal insults on KJY.

There is an over estimation on NKs military and an underestimation on SK military.
No doubt there would be hurt in SK, but ultimately they could railroad NK.

SK are backed by the largest military in the world and also hold popular opinion.

NK are not going to do anything and I think it's poor by Japan to allow hostile rockets fly over your airspace, armed or not.

It's not "personal insults". We cannot be living in a world now where some nutjob dictator claiming to have a nuclear weapon that can be delivered on a missile, can fly ballistic missiles over peaceful sovereign states! Say he is full of whiskey some night and orders a missile launch over Japan and it's a nuclear armed missile, and either through intention or else because something goes seriously wrong, they lose control of it, and then we have a nuclear bomb exploding in the upper atmosphere or else on land, we simply can't tolerate this kind of carry on, the risks are too high for the whole planet.

He needs to be told, next missile launch will be your last, end of story. And if he launches another missile that policy needs to be followed.

BillyBobBS

Divelment wrote: »

It's not "personal insults". We cannot be living in a world now where some nutjob dictator claiming to have a nuclear weapon that can be delivered on a missile, can fly ballistic missiles over peaceful sovereign states! Say he is full of whiskey some night and orders a missile launch over Japan and it's a nuclear armed missile, and either through intention or else because something goes seriously wrong, they lose control of it, and then we have a nuclear bomb exploding in the upper atmosphere or else on land, we simply can't tolerate this kind of carry on, the risks are too high for the whole planet.

He needs to be told, next missile launch will be your last, end of story. And if he launches another missile that policy needs to be followed.

Forget another missile, he needs taking out now. The risks are too high.

Cheerful Spring

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

You seem to be confusing 'direct-line distances' with 'total air travel distances', (which includes the trajectory and elevation/altitude travel).

The recent test was 1180km from 'point to point'.
Guam's 3500km (2100miles) as the (non-high altitude) bird would fly.

So it isn't 300km is it?

You off by over a 1500km and this is just an estimate, could have landed further out. The missile range is 3000 milles

4068ac1elhodqr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You off by over a 1500km and this is just an estimate, could have landed further out. The missile range is 3000 milles

Yes that's the range, but do get to Guam it would have needed to add a whole lot more than '300km' to this latest delivery as you earlier suggested.

It would have needed to be up in the air for nearly twice as long as it was, by which time (14mins or so) it would have been recognised as offensive and removed, by others.

There is now some speculation the Jap's did the right thing as
a). To attempt to remove and fail would have been very bad PR.
b). To attempt and succeed it could of made things worse.

Cheerful Spring

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Forget another missile, he needs taking out now. The risks are too high.

The risks are too great, this is why they are taking their time. Just 1 or 2 missiles with nukes can cause WW2 devastation. This is not going to be like Iraq. It took America 3 years to beat North Korea 1950s.

Cheerful Spring

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Yes that's the range, but do get to Guam it would have needed to add a whole lot more than '300km' to this latest delivery as you earlier suggested.

It would have needed to be up in the air for nearly twice as long as it was, by which time (14mins or so) it would have been recognised as offensive and removed, by others.

There is now some speculation the Jap's did the right thing as
a). To attempt to remove and fail would have been very bad PR.
b). To attempt and succeed it could of made things worse.

The missile has a range of 3000 miles, enough range to pass Guam.

I read online it has traveled 3,200 km later sites said 2.700km.

They have shown can launch this missile successfully.

4068ac1elhodqr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The missile has a range of 3000 miles, enough range to pass Guam.

I read online it has traveled 3,200 km later sites said 2.700km.

They have shown can launch this missile successfully.

Try 1180km (point-to-point). Guam would be about twice that distance.
It would also be, more importantly be of much greater concern and critically: double the intercept time. Should one or more go in that SE direction rather than Pacific splashdown.

Cheerful Spring

Divelment wrote: »

It's not "personal insults". We cannot be living in a world now where some nutjob dictator claiming to have a nuclear weapon that can be delivered on a missile, can fly ballistic missiles over peaceful sovereign states! Say he is full of whiskey some night and orders a missile launch over Japan and it's a nuclear armed missile, and either through intention or else because something goes seriously wrong, they lose control of it, and then we have a nuclear bomb exploding in the upper atmosphere or else on land, we simply can't tolerate this kind of carry on, the risks are too high for the whole planet.

He needs to be told, next missile launch will be your last, end of story. And if he launches another missile that policy needs to be followed.

I actually agree with taking out his missile while it's in the air. I would not do at the launch pad. Take it out when it has left NK airspace. It's risky but it does give Kim a chance to back off?

The Americans talk a big game, but i don't see them doing anything. They are afraid of war like everyone else. They know NK will be no pushover.

Pentagon will have to decide is it better to attack now or wait and hope the tensions blow over? The risk with waiting NK missile program will continue to advance.

Cheerful Spring

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Try 1180km (point-to-point). Guam would be about twice that distance.
It would also be, more importantly be of much greater concern and critically: double the intercept time. Should one or more go in that SE direction rather than Pacific splashdown.

Sure, but that is big if, to shoot it down. If Kim fired multiple rockets how easy would it be?

4068ac1elhodqr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Sure, but that is big if, to shoot it down. If Kim fired multiple rockets how easy would it be?

That's the question indeed, that sort of scenario has only been tested in one place with mixed results. They would have a fair few additional minutes however.

It's fair to say if big Kim did that - he wouldn't ever be able to enjoy Swiss cheese again.

Let's hope he never develops hyper-sonic low-alt, some of the tabloids have reported a few countries have them now, and it's near impossible to stop basically makes any big shinny shinny 1bn boat a yellow duck.

Cheerful Spring

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

That's the question indeed, that sort of scenario has only been tested in one place with mixed results. They would have a fair few additional minutes however.

It's fair to say if big Kim did that - he wouldn't ever be able to enjoy Swiss cheese again.

Let's hope he never develops hyper-sonic low-alt, some of the tabloids have reported a few countries have them now, and it's near impossible to stop basically makes any big shinny shinny 1bn boat a yellow duck.

Sure North Korea would be a different country if war started, but people are naive in thinking he can't strike back. I fully expect South Korea, Guam, Japan to be hit with Nuclear weapons, maybe even America. Even if can't hit America right now? He have the capability soon.

If he can hit America, he can strike Europe too.

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The risks are too great, this is why they are taking their time. Just 1 or 2 missiles with nukes can cause WW2 devastation. This is not going to be like Iraq. It took America 3 years to beat North Korea 1950s.

People keep saying that "It's not going to be like Iraq". I don't think a single person on the planet thinks it will be like Iraq tbh.

Cheerful Spring

BillyBobBS wrote: »

People keep saying that "It's not going to be like Iraq". I don't think a single person on the planet thinks it will be like Iraq tbh.

I just saying you can't rush this, the risks are huge enormous even. It be the first time in history two nuclear powers clashed.

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I just saying you can't rush this, the risks are huge enormous even. It be the first time in history two nuclear powers clashed.

NK have nuclear missiles that could possibly destroy major cities worldwide. They don't have the capacity to wipe out all of mankind, yet. If the world sits back and waits they will sooner rather than later.

The time for talking is over.

Kermit.de.frog

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The time for talking is over.

AMKC

Personally myself I think Kim Jong Ung is a fool. If he was anyway clever instead of isolating himself he would be making allies with Iran,Russia,China and other counties that are interested and then they could go on the offensive. As it is North Korea is one tiny country surrounded by South Korea to the Bottom ,China at the top Japan to the east and the Americans have there 7th fleet just off the coast. I know China is supposed to be there friend or ally but that does not seem very strong now. So if North Korea do fire a missile that is a potential threat it will be shot down by the anti-missile guns and North Korea will not know what hits them next. They can not win so they might as well back down now before it gets bad. They can not win a war on two fronts against a few enemies never mind on multiple fronts its hopeless.

4068ac1elhodqr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Sure North Korea would be a different country if war started, but people are naive in thinking he can't strike back. I fully expect South Korea, Guam, Japan to be hit with Nuclear weapons, maybe even America. Even if can't hit America right now? He have the capability soon. If he can hit America, he can strike Europe too.

You may be confusing him with the chap (Hugo) in Bond's 1979's cinema hit 'Moonraker'.
The power-mad industrialist's horrific scheme was to destroy all human life on earth by transforming space shuttle into a weapon.

Then again the press said:
'Contemporaries of Kim Jong-un's school days in Switzerland recall his fondness for James Bond films, and Jackie Chan action movies.'

Ipso

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

You may be confusing him with the chap (Hugo) in Bond's 1979's cinema hot 'Moonraker'.
The power-mad industrialist's horrific scheme was to destroy all human life on earth by transforming space shuttle into a weapon.

Then again the press said:
'Contemporaries of Kim Jong-un's school days in Switzerland recall his fondness for James Bond films, and Jackie Chan action movies.'

Did he watch Pinky and the Brain?

Hastentoadd

AMKC wrote: »

Personally myself I think Kim Jong Ung is a fool. If he was anyway clever instead of isolating himself he would be making allies with Iran,Russia,China and other counties that are interested and then they could go on the offensive.

If you honestly believe that our world leaders are that stupid and you honestly believe in such a policy yourself then I really think you need to reassess your viewpoint

Nettle Soup

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Sure North Korea would be a different country if war started, but people are naive in thinking he can't strike back. I fully expect South Korea, Guam, Japan to be hit with Nuclear weapons, maybe even America. Even if can't hit America right now? He have the capability soon.

If he can hit America, he can strike Europe too.

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

How big is your bunker now?

Listen Chicken Licken, my advice to you is to stop worrying about Kim and start living the rest of your life...

flaneur

I'm more worried about a technology failure that results in a scenario like a missile intended to be a shot across the bow ending up hitting an unintended target or causing a major environmental disaster.

Japan's already dealing with Fukushima, the last thing the area needs is another nuclear mess.

BillyBobBS

flaneur wrote: »

I'm more worried about a technology failure that results in a scenario like a missile intended to be a shot across the bow ending up hitting an unintended target or causing a major environmental disaster.

Japan's already dealing with Fukushima, the last thing the area needs is another nuclear mess.

North Korean missiles have in the past been fairly inaccurate. It's highly possible they fire one over Japan and it malfunctions hitting Japanese soil. If that happens things will get out of control fairly rapidly.

Gatling

flaneur wrote: »

I'm more worried about a technology failure that results in a scenario like a missile intended to be a shot across the bow ending up hitting an unintended target or causing a major environmental disaster.

Japan's already dealing with Fukushima, the last thing the area needs is another nuclear mess.

But there is also a huge risk to civillian airliners and shipping is a big problem too ,
Most normal countries close air space to sea lanes to everyone when conducting weapon tests

AMKC

Hastentoadd wrote: »

If you honestly believe that our world leaders are that stupid and you honestly believe in such a policy yourself then I really think you need to reassess your viewpoint

I never said I believe that or that our world leaders are that stupid. I just said if Kim was smart that is what he would have been doing instead of making enemies and trying to start a war he can not win.
He is on out of control dictator and needs to be dealt with if North Korea ever wants to get on with the rest of the World and not be isolated but he does not want to negotiate with anyone.

fxotoole

AMKC wrote: »

He is on out of control dictator and needs to be dealt with if North Korea ever wants to get on with the rest of the World and not be isolated but he does not want to negotiate with anyone.

They don't want to. Or the leadership don't want to, to be more precise.

josip

Gatling wrote: »

But there is also a huge risk to civillian airliners and shipping is a big problem too ,
Most normal countries close air space to sea lanes to everyone when conducting weapon tests

Lots of room on that trajectory for everyone

https://www.flightradar24.com/41.48,135.81/6
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:132.9/centery:39.6/zoom:6