US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Zebra3

Gatling wrote: »

No they had Nuclear weapons and russia then insisted they hand them to them and signed a non aggression treaty ,

What happened next russia invaded and occupied Crimea and east Ukraine ,

Moral of the story don't trust russia or their friends

A unified Korea wouldn't need american soldiers but with china claiming the whole south China sea I get the feelings a unified Korea would want US military forces on their sovereign territory

Oh, you forgot to mention the western-backed coup over the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

And all the countries invaded and bombed by the US and its lackeys, in many cases "justified" with lies.

Moral of the story, don't trust the US and its bitches.

Dohnjoe

Zebra3 wrote: »

the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

The democratically elected klepomaniac Russian puppet who ran the country into the ground, emptied the state coffers, funneled hundreds of millions of state money to his dentist son and was caught red-handed with car collections, a private zoo, a Spanish galleon, sprawling estates all on a state salary of around $50k

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians marched for days, culminating in a violent standoff with dozens of people killed by a corrupt piece of **** who fled back to his motherland and is wanted by several countries over serious money-laundering and fraud charges.. not to mention the Ukrainians then having to endure the Kremlin's full fury.. information war, economic war and actual war for getting rid of "their" man in Kiev

Yeah how dare the Ukrainian people subvert the democratic process

Gatling

Zebra3 wrote: »

Oh, you forgot to mention the western-backed coup over the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

Nonsense unfortunately proven and repeatedly debunked .

Next

Cheerful Spring

US fighter jets stage mock bombing drill over Korean Peninsula

Two days after North Korea flew a missile over Japan, the United States and South Korea staged their own show of force with state-of-the-art stealth fighters Thursday.

Four US F-35B fighter jets joined two US B-1B bombers and four South Korean F-15 fighter jets in the joint US-South Korean flyover of the Korean Peninsula, an official with the South Korean air force told CNN.
The exercise was designed to "strongly counter North Korea's repeated ballistic missile tests and development of nuclear weapons," the official said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/us-bombers-korean-peninsula/index.html

Divelment

There needs to be a line drawn under things now, he needs to be told, "next missile you launch, you are gonna be taken out and anyone unfortunate enough to be within a 500 metre radius of you is gonna be taken out too"...

This can't continue, this current situation where he is sending missiles over peaceful states and threatening the whole world, the state of him, I can't understand how this whole situation has been let go this far to be honest where he is flying missiles over Japan and giving the whole planet the two fingers.

josip

Divelment wrote: »

...

This can't continue, this current situation where he is sending missiles over peaceful states and threatening the whole world, the state of him, I can't understand how this whole situation has been let go this far to be honest where he is flying missiles over Japan and giving the whole planet the two fingers.

To keep things in perspective, the ISS and many military satellites orbit earth lower than the rocket went over Japan.
I don't think Kim is giving the 2 fingers to the 'whole planet'.
I suspect that both China and Russia will take some pleasure from the US's/West's inability to do anything meaningful.
From a strategic perspective, Kim has done the correct thing and gone for the bomb and the means to deliver it.
If Saddam Hussein or Gadaffi had had the bomb, they probably wouldn't have been attacked.
The Kims did have the added advantage of having Seoul within reach of conventional weaponry which bought them the extra time to develop both the bomb and the ICBMs.

Divelment

josip wrote: »

To keep things in perspective, the ISS and many military satellites orbit earth lower than the rocket went over Japan.
I don't think Kim is giving the 2 fingers to the 'whole planet'.
I suspect that both China and Russia will take some pleasure from the US's/West's inability to do anything meaningful.
From a strategic perspective, Kim has done the correct thing and gone for the bomb and the means to deliver it.
If Saddam Hussein or Gadaffi had had the bomb, they probably wouldn't have been attacked.
The Kims did have the added advantage of having Seoul within reach of conventional weaponry which bought them the extra time to develop both the bomb and the ICBMs.

Being within artillery firing distance of Seoul is the only wild card KJY has. If Texas can be evacuated because of a hurricane then so can Seoul, I really think it's time to get on with it now and deal with the problem. Yes people are gonna die, war is hell, but this crap of allowing this chubby bull**** merchant to threaten the world, it's time to draw a line in the sand and tell the guy that if he launches again, then he is the target and the gloves come off. Evacuate Seoul to minimise casualties, you can't stop field artillery but you can stop missiles, in 24 hours the worst of it would be over and then you've dealt with the KJY problem.

Gatling

Seen america tested a new guided nuclear weapon at the weekend ,
Unlike typical nuclear weapons this can be launched from F15,F22 and F35 aircraft and can be guided to a target with pin point precision.

josip

Divelment wrote: »

... If Texas can be evacuated because of a hurricane then so can Seoul...

But they didn't even evacuate Houston, let alone Texas.

"You literally cannot put 6.5 million people on the road," Turner (Houston mayor) said in a press conference. "If you think the situation right now is bad, you give an order to evacuate, you are creating a nightmare."

Cheerful Spring

Aircraft that flew out of Guam and US Marine Corps base in Japan. North Korea will likely not be happy again.

China ministry is not happy. China says it will never allow war or chaos on its doorstep as tensions escalate on Korean Peninsula. Ren Guoqiang also reiterated China’s position that the North Korean crisis should be resolved through dialogue, and insisted on the denuclearization of the peninsula, according to Sina, citing the spokesman.

aloyisious

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

US fighter jets stage mock bombing drill over Korean Peninsula

Two days after North Korea flew a missile over Japan, the United States and South Korea staged their own show of force with state-of-the-art stealth fighters Thursday.

Four US F-35B fighter jets joined two US B-1B bombers and four South Korean F-15 fighter jets in the joint US-South Korean flyover of the Korean Peninsula, an official with the South Korean air force told CNN.
The exercise was designed to "strongly counter North Korea's repeated ballistic missile tests and development of nuclear weapons," the official said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/us-bombers-korean-peninsula/index.html

Which part of the Korean peninsula?

Cheerful Spring

aloyisious wrote: »

Which part of the Korean peninsula?

South Korea! It was just a warning shot.

During the 10-hour mission, the U.S. and Japanese warplanes flew over waters near Kyushu in western Japan before the American and South Korean aircraft flew across the Korean Peninsula and practiced their attack capabilities with live-fire in a training area.

“This complex mission clearly demonstrates our solidarity with our allies and underscores the broadening cooperation to defend against this common regional threat,” said U.S. Pacific Air Forces commander Gen. Terrence J. O’Shaughnessy in a statement. “Our forward-deployed force will be the first to the fight, ready to deliver a lethal response at a moment’s notice if our nation calls."

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

South Korea! It was just a warning shot.

During the 10-hour mission, the U.S. and Japanese warplanes flew over waters near Kyushu in western Japan before the American and South Korean aircraft flew across the Korean Peninsula and practiced their attack capabilities with live-fire in a training area.

“This complex mission clearly demonstrates our solidarity with our allies and underscores the broadening cooperation to defend against this common regional threat,” said U.S. Pacific Air Forces commander Gen. Terrence J. O’Shaughnessy in a statement. “Our forward-deployed force will be the first to the fight, ready to deliver a lethal response at a moment’s notice if our nation calls."

So south korea and its ally flew their planes over south korean territory. the absolute cheek of them.

Divelment

josip wrote: »

But they didn't even evacuate Houston, let alone Texas.

The point is moot as you know well, cities can be evacuated, happens all the time, it's lost past time that this clown and his single wild card got called and that he was dealt with, he's taking the piss with the whole planet now and I'm genuinely scratching my head wondering how it has been allowed to get to this stage, it's a total piss take...

Dohnjoe

Divelment wrote: »

There needs to be a line drawn under things now, he needs to be told, "next missile you launch, you are gonna be taken out and anyone unfortunate enough to be within a 500 metre radius of you is gonna be taken out too"...

This can't continue, this current situation where he is sending missiles over peaceful states and threatening the whole world, the state of him, I can't understand how this whole situation has been let go this far to be honest where he is flying missiles over Japan and giving the whole planet the two fingers.

If they "take him out" a serious amount of people will die in S Korea in the first 30 minutes andthere will be a huge destabilisation of the region, N Korean refugees, possible military response by China, etc, etc

The Kim dynasty has engineered the entire situation precisely so that it's too painful for any country or coalition to take significant military action

Creating the capability to miniaturize functional nukes and place them on intercontinental missiles is pretty much the end game - he will be absolutely untouchable then

The only country that can actually do something is China. They control 90% trade and 70% of the gas into NK. They could strangle the country overnight, but then again, they would just be hurting the N Koreans and not the leadership

ohnonotgmail

Divelment wrote: »

The point is moot as you know well, cities can be evacuated, happens all the time, it's lost past time that this clown and his single wild card got called and that he was dealt with, he's taking the piss with the whole planet now and I'm genuinely scratching my head wondering how it has been allowed to get to this stage, it's a total piss take...

can you point us towards the last evacuation of a major city and how long it took? Bearing in mind that seoul has a population of nearly 10M

Divelment

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

can you point us towards the last evacuation of a major city and how long it took? Bearing in mind that seoul has a population of nearly 10M

Look at Syria, there is a country that has been basically evacuated. People get displaced all the time, personally if I was living in Seoul I'd have moved away from there a long time ago. This simply has to be dealt with now, so whatever has to be done has to now be done, the world cannot tolerate this loose canon with his little mickey and his missile launches, it's going to happen anyways so better off getting your first strike in, taking him out and getting on with business. This sabre rattling is actually embarrassing now, it's easily sorted, take out KJY and those immediately around him, fly a few very intense & heavy bombing runs over the NK/SK border to knock out the artillery pieces, yes people are gonna die but ffs just get on with it.

How many people die each day in NK death camps?!? What makes the lives of these people less valuable than a South Korean middle class worker in Seoul tonight?

ohnonotgmail

Divelment wrote: »

Look at Syria, there is a country that has been basically evacuated. People get displaced all the time, personally if I was living in Seoul I'd have moved away from there a long time ago. This simply has to be dealt with now, so whatever has to be done has to now be done, the world cannot tolerate this loose canon with his little mickey and his missile launches, it's going to happen anyways so better off getting your first strike in, taking him out and getting on with business. This sabre rattling is actually embarrassing now, it's easily sorted, take out KJY and those immediately around him, fly a few very intense & heavy bombing runs over the NK/SK border to knock out the artillery pieces, yes people are gonna die but ffs just get on with it.

How many people die each day in NK death camps?!? What makes the lives of these people less valuable than a South Korean middle class worker in Seoul tonight?

I dont think anybody would call what happened in Syria an evacuation. and it didnt involve 10M people all moving at once in a short period of time. You severely underestimate the logistics involved in evacuating a city the size of Seoul.

Nettle Soup

Divelment wrote: »

Look at Syria, there is a country that has been basically evacuated. People get displaced all the time, personally if I was living in Seoul I'd have moved away from there a long time ago. This simply has to be dealt with now, so whatever has to be done has to now be done, the world cannot tolerate this loose canon with his little mickey and his missile launches, it's going to happen anyways so better off getting your first strike in, taking him out and getting on with business. This sabre rattling is actually embarrassing now, it's easily sorted, take out KJY and those immediately around him, fly a few very intense & heavy bombing runs over the NK/SK border to knock out the artillery pieces, yes people are gonna die but ffs just get on with it.

How many people die each day in NK death camps?!? What makes the lives of these people less valuable than a South Korean middle class worker in Seoul tonight?

Syria had a population of 18.5 million in 2016. Are you suggesting they all left? Half even?

Divelment

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont think anybody would call what happened in Syria an evacuation. and it didnt involve 10M people all moving at once in a short period of time. You severely underestimate the logistics involved in evacuating a city the size of Seoul.

You could knock out the artillery situation with a proper, extremely intense & very well coordinated 24/48 hour bombing run. Artillery pieces have to be manually loaded and if you have guys trying to reload when they have massive ordinance going off all around them, they will generally choose the flight and not fight option. That NK border area needs to be carpet bombed for 24 hours, missiles can be shot down where they get off the ground (they shouldn't), KJY and the military, there shouldn't be a military barracks within NK not flattened within the first 2 minutes.

ohnonotgmail

Divelment wrote: »

You could knock out the artillery situation with a proper, extremely intense & very well coordinated 24/48 hour bombing run. Artillery pieces have to be manually loaded and if you have guys trying to reload when they have massive ordinance going off all around them, they will generally choose the flight and not fight option. That NK border area needs to be carpet bombed for 24 hours, missiles can be shot down where they get off the ground (they shouldn't), KJY and the military, there shouldn't be a military barracks within NK not flattened within the first 2 minutes.

i havent asked you about any of that. you claim that the city of seoul could be evacuated and that evacuations of cities happen all the time. I'm just trying to ascertain what kind of timeframe you think this could be done in and why.

fxotoole

Divelment wrote: »

You could knock out the artillery situation with a proper, extremely intense & very well coordinated 24/48 hour bombing run. Artillery pieces have to be manually loaded and if you have guys trying to reload when they have massive ordinance going off all around them, they will generally choose the flight and not fight option. That NK border area needs to be carpet bombed for 24 hours, missiles can be shot down where they get off the ground (they shouldn't), KJY and the military, there shouldn't be a military barracks within NK not flattened within the first 2 minutes.

Then what? Who fills the power vacuum left by the Kim regime? How do you handle the refugees?

Divelment

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i havent asked you about any of that. you claim that the city of seoul could be evacuated and that evacuations of cities happen all the time. I'm just trying to ascertain what kind of timeframe you think this could be done in and why.

I'm not getting hung up on a evacuation, as I've said, disasters (man made, acts of God) happen all the time, it is a regular event in the US during hurricane season. This has been going on for the last few months now, this KJY crap where he is threatening the whole world.

This just isn't gonna be allowed to continue in my opinion, I think we are just hours or maybe a few days away from Trump giving the order to attack, and when it happens, I think KJY is the first target and the NK border and everything 20KM north of it will be carpet bombed.

Divelment

fxotoole wrote: »

Then what? Who fills the power vacuum left by the Kim regime? How do you handle the refugees?

Who gives a fuuck, let China sort it out, close our borders and don't let them into the EU.

Dohnjoe

Divelment wrote: »

Look at Syria, there is a country that has been basically evacuated.

Over 300,000 dead. Millions of refugees, homeless and displaced. Not a great example.

North Korean artillery could fire immediately and excluding outlaying areas, if all artillery in range of Seoul fired, the first volley would be the equivalent of 11 B52 bombers targeting the densely packed city

Divelment

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Over 300,000 dead. Millions of refugees, homeless and displaced. Not a great example.

North Korean artillery could fire immediately and excluding outlaying areas, if all artillery in range of Seoul fired, the first volley would be the equivalent of 11 B52 bombers targeting the densely packed city

They couldn't fire immediately if they were flattened beforehand or simultaneously on an attack to take out KJY. Everything 20KM north of the NK border should be intensively bombed, that will sort the artillery problem out, yeah they'll get a few away but it's a clean up exercise after the initial bombing run. If I was Trump, this would have happened a month ago.

josip

It's not often that I'm relieved Trump is president, but...

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Aircraft that flew out of Guam and US Marine Corps base in Japan. North Korea will likely not be happy again.




China ministry is not happy. China says it will never allow war or chaos on its doorstep as tensions escalate on Korean Peninsula. Ren Guoqiang also reiterated China’s position that the North Korean crisis should be resolved through dialogue, and insisted on the denuclearization of the peninsula, according to Sina, citing the spokesman.

China is not happy

China will not allow nuclear weapons

China will not ,


If china is not happy why are they supporting Kim.
If China wants denuclearisation in why are china suppling NK with the ability to launch missles

Dohnjoe

Divelment wrote: »

They couldn't fire immediately if they were flattened beforehand or simultaneously on an attack to take out KJY.

It took a large coalition a month to degrade the Iraqi army in the first Gulf war, months of bombing for NATO (and others) to degrade Qaddafi's ragtag army.

I don't think any force on earth short of tactical nuclear weapons could destroy the approx 12,000 artillery pieces and over 2,000 missile batteries that N K has in the seconds/minutes those pieces could fire their first volley

Divelment

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It took a large coalition a month to degrade the Iraqi army in the first Gulf war, months of bombing for NATO (and others) to degrade Qaddafi's ragtag army.

I don't think any force on earth short of tactical nuclear weapons could destroy the approx 12,000 artillery pieces and over 2,000 missile batteries that N K has in the seconds/minutes those pieces could fire their first volley

I've made the point already that artillery pieces need to be reloaded on a shell per shell basis, when it gets serious, a lot of these guys will run for the hills because they know well what the outcome will be, when the ground is shaking beneath them from nearby incoming heavy aerial bombing. If 30% of the artillery pieces can be taken out in a very heavy first strike and another 30% taken out by other means (chemical weapons, shock and awe, making lads abandon their positions through fright), you've dwindled the problem down to the last third, it's a mopping up exercise then. Yes people will die but they are dying anyway in NK and it's time to deal with this guy I think.