US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Corvo

I can't believe some of the rubbish I'm reading on here. Every time I read "take him out" my back nearly snaps I'm cringing so badly.

Corvo

Corvo wrote: »

I can't believe some of the rubbish I'm reading on here. Every time I read "take him out" my back nearly snaps I'm cringing so badly.

He's clearly more of a Netflix and chill guy.

BillyBobBS

Divelment wrote: »

You aren't getting it, how many million people died in WW1 and WW2? We are now looking at WW3, a nutjob with a nuclear weapon, it couldn't be more serious. You clearly believe in a policy of appeasement, it never worked before and it isn't going to work here, the threat has to be dealt with, the challenge here is to try minimise the loss of life because talking has not worked, sanctions have no worked, only one thing is going to work and it's the same thing that dislodged Saddam Hussien, Gadaffi, Hitler, etc, and it's their own death.

You are wasting your time with these people. They are the sort that sat back as Hitler rose to power and then laid waste to millions and did the square root of dick.

BillyBobBS

Hastentoadd wrote: »

'War is hell, I'm an ex military man, people die in war, there is no avoiding it'.

Strangely there is. You just decide not to go to war. You decide to agree to disagree. You decide that life is more important. So you work together to gain an acceptable answer thats meets peoples needs. War is simple. Its two gob****es who couldnt give a crap about their people and are willing to let their people die on behalf of their stupid, irreversible, self-contained viewpoints. For somebody to suggest that somebodys death in war is unavoidable, well they just miss the point. War is escapable. Now there are issues in life that are inescapable. Drug barons, diamond barons, companies that rape countries of their resources. So here you fight for what is yours. But that is not war. War is stupid, has always been stupid, will always be stupid.

Tell that to the Jewish people, sure we should just have let them all be gassed :rolleyes:

Could the thread title be updated? A lot has happened since and America are not considering striking first.

Gringo180

BillyBobBS wrote: »

You are wasting your time with these people. They are the sort that sat back as Hitler rose to power and then laid waste to millions and did the square root of dick.

Your comparing Hitler with Kim? Really? I dont recall the North Koreans invading and occupying any countries?

A better comparison to Hitler would be the US and there allies.

Gringo180

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He was effectively handed power by his father, and elections were shams. Unless you believe a politician repeatedly gets 95%+ of the vote in a democracy autocracy



A myth. He put himself in power with the Ba'athist coup in the late sixties. Signed a 15 year treaty with the Soviets which made him unpopular with the yanks, so they armed the Kurds against him. It wasn't until the early 80's that the yanks (Rumsfeld of course) warmed toward him. Was during the Cold War when both sides shacked up with unpleasant leaders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iraq



Another myth

"He did not receive any direct funding or training from the US during the 1980s. Nor did his followers. The Afghan mujahideen, via Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency, received large amounts of both. Some bled to the Arabs fighting the Soviets but nothing significant."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-10-myths-cia-arsenal

Ah come off it. It was the CIA who instigated the coup in Iraq in the 60s, ex CIA men are on record stating this. The yanks have overthrown democracies all over the world since ww2.

Dohnjoe

Gringo180 wrote: »

Ah come off it.

No.

There's plenty to criticise about administrations in country X, Y or Z without having to resort to the university of youtube and internet whataboutery

Gringo180

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No.

There's plenty to criticise about administrations in country X, Y or Z without having to resort to the university of youtube and internet whataboutery

Its not whataboutery its U.S foreign policy double standards yet again. For a country that takes the moral highground on human rights they dont half pick and choose whos human rights to protect depending on there interests.

SeanW

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It took a large coalition a month to degrade the Iraqi army in the first Gulf war, months of bombing for NATO (and others) to degrade Qaddafi's ragtag army.

I don't think any force on earth short of tactical nuclear weapons could destroy the approx 12,000 artillery pieces and over 2,000 missile batteries that N K has in the seconds/minutes those pieces could fire their first volley

The U.S. has MOABs, very powerful non-nuclear explosives.

They were first used in Afghanistan earlier this year, obliterated everything in a +1km radius including killing a bunch of militants in a tunnel system, by literally sucking all the oxygen out. MOABs had not bee used previously in Iraq or Libya.

Carpet bombing Southern North Korea near the DMZ with these would obliterate the artillery limit the damage to Seoul. An evacuation would still be prudent though.

Grayson

SeanW wrote: »

The U.S. has MOABs, very powerful non-nuclear explosives.

They were first used in Afghanistan earlier this year, obliterated everything in a +1km radius including killing a bunch of militants in a tunnel system, by literally sucking all the oxygen out. MOABs had not bee used previously in Iraq or Libya.

Carpet bombing Southern North Korea near the DMZ with these would obliterate the artillery limit the damage to Seoul. An evacuation would still be prudent though.

I think the US has something like less than 10 moabs.

Dohnjoe

SeanW wrote: »

The U.S. has MOABs, very powerful non-nuclear explosives.

They were first used in Afghanistan earlier this year, obliterated everything in a +1km radius including killing a bunch of militants in a tunnel system, by literally sucking all the oxygen out. MOABs had not bee used previously in Iraq or Libya.

Carpet bombing Southern North Korea near the DMZ with these would obliterate the artillery limit the damage to Seoul. An evacuation would still be prudent though.

We have to keep all this hypothetical since outright war is so unlikely, but NK artillery, tube launchers and missile silos are spread over thousands of square kilometers

Even taking into account badly trained troops, 25% shell and missile failure rate, levels of aging equipment, bad communication - they would still inflict a horrendous amount of casualties in S Korea

If the world threw everything it could at that line (into Twilight Zone realms of hypothetical scenarios here I know) we still couldn't prevent unacceptable amounts of people dying

Also, at the end of the day, the N Koreans are also victims in this - Kim has successfully tied the fate of his people to his own

The best we can hope for is successful Chinese + international diplomatic and economic pressure or a very unlikely internal coup in NK

Elmer Blooker

BillyBobBS wrote: »

You are wasting your time with these people. They are the sort that sat back as Hitler rose to power and then laid waste to millions and did the square root of dick.

It was Britain and the US who were responsible for the rise of Hitler. They were happy to see the "Red" Spanish Republic crushed by Franco and Hitler who used the Spanish Civil War as a training ground for his forces in preparation for WW2 while the so called democracies looked the other way.
It was the socialists who went to Spain to fight for the elected Republican government who tried to stop the rise of fascism, no one listened.

josip

Divelment wrote: »

War is hell, I'm an ex military man, people die in war, there is no avoiding it. ...

Soldiers expect to die, civilians don't.

Dohnjoe

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It was Britain and the US who were responsible for the rise of Hitler.

No no, I hate the French so it was the French

If they wouldn't have [insert tenous links about punitive post WW1 treatment, fermenting German decay formulating the rise of fascism and other selective nonsense] then I can link them to the rise of Hitler

Thus validating my hatred of the French

Am I doing it right?

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It was Britain and the US who were responsible for the rise of Hitler. They were happy to see the "Red" Spanish Republic crushed by Franco and Hitler who used the Spanish Civil War as a training ground for his forces in preparation for WW2 while the so called democracies looked the other way.
It was the socialists who went to Spain to fight for the elected Republican government who tried to stop the rise of fascism, no one listened.

I dont know. the US get a load of grief for interfering in the affairs of other states and get a load of grief when they decide not to interfere in the affairs of other states.

Cheerful Spring

Gringo180 wrote: »

Its not whataboutery its U.S foreign policy double standards yet again. For a country that takes the moral highground on human rights they dont half pick and choose whos human rights to protect depending on there interests.

That's exactly right.

Cheerful Spring

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It was Britain and the US who were responsible for the rise of Hitler. They were happy to see the "Red" Spanish Republic crushed by Franco and Hitler who used the Spanish Civil War as a training ground for his forces in preparation for WW2 while the so called democracies looked the other way.
It was the socialists who went to Spain to fight for the elected Republican government who tried to stop the rise of fascism, no one listened.

I would see the ending of WW1, Germany defeat, and treatment of Germany that gave a platform for the Nazi party to exist. Without the Nazi party Hitler likely would not have risen to power.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

We have to keep all this hypothetical since outright war is so unlikely, but NK artillery, tube launchers and missile silos are spread over thousands of square kilometers

Even taking into account badly trained troops, 25% shell and missile failure rate, levels of aging equipment, bad communication - they would still inflict a horrendous amount of casualties in S Korea

If the world threw everything it could at that line (into Twilight Zone realms of hypothetical scenarios here I know) we still couldn't prevent unacceptable amounts of people dying

Also, at the end of the day, the N Koreans are also victims in this - Kim has successfully tied the fate of his people to his own

The best we can hope for is successful Chinese + international diplomatic and economic pressure or a very unlikely internal coup in NK

There is no evidence North Korea has missile silos, if they have we are screwed. It only takes seconds to launch a missile from a silo. We have only spotted NK launching missiles from MAZ-based vehicle platform.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

But do you honestly think china will just go in with america and south Korea and then leave when the job is done ,

And NK artillery will be replaced with Chinese guns under the idea of preventing america invading china ,

NK controlled by China would be a better option don't you think?

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

NK controlled by China would be a better option don't you think?

How about NK controlled by the north korean people and not a dictator?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

NK controlled by China would be a better option don't you think?

No .

It will end up actually getting worse under china especially when the fight for the south China sea kicks off

Cheerful Spring

BillyBobBS wrote: »

You are wasting your time with these people. They are the sort that sat back as Hitler rose to power and then laid waste to millions and did the square root of dick.

You calling for nuclear war and the killing of millions of people. NK so far is only testing dud missiles, relax. You swear we are all in imminent danger of nuclear attack.

Britain and France went to war Hitler invaded Poland, big difference.

I'm all in for shooting down the dud missile when it leaves NK airspace, a warning shot to tell Kim to back down. This is the best option before having a war.

I don't agree we should launch a pre-emptive war over a missile test.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That's exactly right.

But posters are completely silent and blind to other countries abuses and landgrabs and Invasions and oppressions massacres ,

But hey once your anti Yankee that's all matters to some ,

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

But posters are completely silent and blind to other countries abuses and landgrabs and Invasions and oppressions massacres ,

But hey once your anti Yankee that's all matters to some ,

Like what countries?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Like what countries?

Several I can think off ,

But been done to death across multiple threads and forums with the same posters

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

No .

It will end up actually getting worse under china especially when the fight for the south China sea kicks off

It may never kick off. Either way you have to take the risk and taking out Kim may even ease tensions between China and America. I believe China would be happy with having limited control of NK ( military base) to keep the peace.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Several I can think off ,

But been done to death across multiple threads and forums with the same posters

You can't name one, got you.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It may never kick off. Either way you have to take the risk and taking out Kim may even ease tensions between China and America. I believe China would be happy with having limited control of NK ( military base) to keep the peace.

It would be better if Korea was reunified not occupied by china or another autocratic tyrant put in on their behalf

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You can't name one, got you.

Not detailing this thread but im Sure you could find some if you wanted