US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I wouldn't be someone to jump to crazy reactions but I hope China get on board with things and maybe a first strike might need to be considered.

As crazy as the US and Russia were/are at least they understood the concept of mutually assured destruction. You would hope the North Koreans know too but who knows with them.

Willa Brief Stepchildren

Willa Brief Stepchildren wrote: »

I wouldn't be someone to jump to crazy reactions but I hope China get on board with things and maybe a first strike might need to be considered.

As crazy as the US and Russia were/are at least they understood the concept of mutually assured destruction. You would hope the North Koreans know too but who knows with them.

But in your first paragraph, you called for "mutually assured destruction" for the people of Seoul, which isn't even in China.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I didn't directly reference Seoul but yes the two paragraphs appear to contradict. I think if NK don't understand MAD then unfortunately a first strike might result in the least amount of deaths - completely nuts but nothing is sane I guess with nukes. If they do understand MAD then I think this will just blow over as everything else with North Korea has.

Just on BBC news that SK are getting nervous -

"South Korea is considering its response and says one option is to deploy the "most powerful US tactical weapons" - widely seen as a reference to US nuclear weapons"

Willa Brief Stepchildren

Willa Brief Stepchildren wrote: »

I didn't directly reference Seoul but yes the two paragraphs appear to contradict. I think if NK don't understand MAD then unfortunately a first strike might result in the least amount of deaths - completely nuts but nothing is sane I guess with nukes. If they do understand MAD then I think this will just blow over as everything else with North Korea has.

Just on BBC news that SK are getting nervous -

"South Korea is considering its response and says one option is to deploy the "most powerful US tactical weapons" - widely seen as a reference to US nuclear weapons"

Realistically, there won't be a war.. In fact, this is actually sad progress towards peace and a stalemate. We have to Kim some credit for having an IQ over 80, so why go starting wars when he won't.

BillyBobBS

This is what happens when you are more interested in appearing on late night chat shows than tackling this fat lunactic. Over 8 years Obama sat back and did absolutely nothing and now NK have the capability to destroy some of the worlds biggest cities with nuclear weapons. It's going to take a real president to deal with this mess.

It's Trump time.

um7y1h83ge06nx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Realistically, there won't be a war.. In fact, this is actually sad progress towards peace and a stalemate. We have to Kim some credit for having an IQ over 80, so why go starting wars when he won't.

That would be the most likely scenario for sure, pity it had to even come to this though, a second strike by the US would be brutal, no way would they be measured if an US city got hit first.

Going from a 10 kt yield to a 100 kt device is a fair step forward for NK, assuming this is the yield based on the tremor size (6.3 v 5.3 for the previous one). Its a large blast for a fission device, but the largest fission yield was 500 kt for an American test called Ivy King in the 1950s, so the claims by NK that it was a thermonuclear test may not be true.

archer22

Kim's Hydrogen bomb caused a 6.5 earthquake....that a big bomb :eek:

Trump is in a state of shock...his pudgy orange fingers have been shaking too badly to be able to Tweet on this

Infini

Honestly I can't see this ending well. Unless the UN gets serious including China and Russia baaically agreeing to a full blockade of NK this will continue on and on. It was was expected tbey would conduct another test at some point but until the penny drops in NK or Fatty drops they need to stop messing around and just get serious.

They say that they may have to accept NK as a nuclear power but I could see those black Ops options being used or a military solution coming into play sooner or later.

ilkhanid

flaneur wrote: »

I’m not convinced that China has as much influence in North Korea as we are lead to believe.

I think you're perfectly right about that. North Korea is irked by the notion that China assumes it should have influence over it, that it knows best. It regards that as patronising and chafes under the notion that it should have to depend on China for anything and put up with Chimese fingerwagging. The Kim regime (especially under the last two Kims want's to be a player in it's own right and it sees China as another obstacle to that ambition. Notice the way that Chinese suggestions about greater societal and economic openness are continually dismissed.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Actually it was the people in Crimea who protested and did not want to be part of the new Ukraine. Russia only send in troops when Ukraine threatened to establish order and wipe out the protesters.

Whereas I'm sure you scoffed at the notion that NATO countries intervened in Libya to protect protestors from mass murder by Ghadaffi. Russia took over Crimea to prevent Ukranian genocide of the population. Russia invaded Georgia to prevent Georgian genocide of the populations of Ossetia and Abhkazia. If the Russians ever invade Estonia to prevent Estonian genocide of the Russian-speaking population, will you swallow that fairty-tale too?

archer22

Time for America to "Pivot" back to America before it gets hurt...it's finally met it's match.

uck51js9zml2yt

Looks like don has slept through a nuclear test. No tweets

Samaris

The question is how far will this go. Does anyone bar a few "real president" supporters believe that Trump has any idea what he's doing here? And home questions are heating up too; not to mention he's well and truly noticed that he gets a bump of support when he bombs things.

I really don't know if the answer is to bomb NK as a warning to other countries that the world takes nuclear proliferation seriously or go back into talks, accept that NK has the damned thing and now joins everyone else in "really do not bomb me or there will be hell to pay". I suspect the safer answer is talks, but the leadership of NK is so nutty (and god knows what the next one will do, since the Kims appear to edge closer to psychosis with every generation) that no-one's going to like them having it.

bilston

There is no obvious solution to this.

The assumption has to be that NK will never launch a first strike as there are no circumstances whatsoever where they can ever win a military conflict. They can cause a lot of damage of course, but they can't win.

Therefore it seems to me that the most likely outcome is a stalemate. The rest of the world will just have to tolerate NK and over time hope that relations become normalised like with China.

The problem with that scenario is that other countries might copy the NK playbook and start developing their own nuclear arsenal.

Samaris

Samaris wrote: »

The question is how far will this go. Does anyone bar a few "real president" supporters believe that Trump has any idea what he's doing here?

He is literally doing what every other president did.. Sanctions.

What in particular do you not like about his handling of NK? As far as I can see, he has had two Americans released while imposing sanctions, and there hasn't been a war.

Samaris wrote: »

but the leadership of NK is so nutty (and god knows what the next one will do, since the Kims appear to edge closer to psychosis with every generation) that no-one's going to like them having it.

You seem to believe that people you don't like are either stupid or psychotic. Kim has played his hand perfectly up until now so just imagining him as some loony is grossly underestimating him.

archer22

Samaris wrote: »

The question is how far will this go. Does anyone bar a few "real president" supporters believe that Trump has any idea what he's doing here? And home questions are heating up too; not to mention he's well and truly noticed that he gets a bump of support when he bombs things.

I really don't know if the answer is to bomb NK as a warning to other countries that the world takes nuclear proliferation seriously or go back into talks, accept that NK has the damned thing and now joins everyone else in "really do not bomb me or there will be hell to pay". I suspect the safer answer is talks, but the leadership of NK is so nutty (and god knows what the next one will do, since the Kims appear to edge closer to psychosis with every generation) that no-one's going to like them having it.

Of course the answer is talks...that's what China and Russia keep asking for.And as a prelude they want America to stop it's provocative military exercises on the North Korean border.Which North Korea sees as a dress rehearsal for invasion.
Also threats and sanctions and more sanctions and more threats is plain stupid at this stage...they are actually making North Korea stronger and more self reliant.

A little understanding of the North Korean mindset would be helpful...they have seen their country flattened by America and they believe America is going to try and do that again...threats, sanctions and military exercises on their border reinforces that belief...and they have also seen what has happened to Iraq,Afghanistan and Libya recently.

Kim Jong Un is far from "nutty" he is in fact incredibly smart...if he wasn't American troops would be in Pyongyang now.

Avatar MIA

Haylee Lemon Yam wrote: »

Looks like don has slept through a nuclear test. No tweets

Not sure this is reassuring. It could mean the US is about to strike.

Haylee Lemon Yam

Haylee Lemon Yam wrote: »

Looks like don has slept through a nuclear test. No tweets

Perhaps, the time for tweeting is over!

archer22

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps, the time for tweeting is over!

Perhaps there is no signal in his nuclear bomb shelter

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perhaps, the time for tweeting is over!

It's getting to the point something is going to have to happen to the leadership of NK

Avatar MIA

Gatling wrote: »

It's getting to the point something is going to have to happen to the leadership of NK

I think I can see the future.

"We were faced with the leader of a rogue nation continually saying he will destroy our country. A leadership that has shown the capability to detonate nuclear weapons, has produced evidence of being able to miniaturise a thermonuclear device, now possessing ICBMs, and recently stated he would fire on Guam."

When US asked, "Why have you attacked North Korea?"

Divelment

I think (and hope) that we are days at the most and maybe hours away from seeing a military operation to taking out KJY. I don't think it'll be like the Gulf War where they tell him to step down within 24 hours or whatever or else they will go in, I think this will be a surgical strike where they (the US), will try to take him out with a missile strike.

fxotoole

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Not sure this is reassuring. It could mean the US is about to strike.

Nope. Trump tweeted an hour ago, moaning and bitching about NK's actions being provocative and threatening to the USA. He's also moaning about China being ineffectual and South Korea's attempted appeasement being a failure.

So basically, despite what you Trump supporters believe, he's all words and no action, yet again

Divelment

fxotoole wrote: »

Nope. Trump tweeted an hour ago, moaning and bitching about NK's actions being provocative and threatening to the USA. He's also moaning about China being ineffectual and South Korea's attempted appeasement being a failure.

So basically, despite what you Trump supporters believe, he's all words and no action, yet again

It's just stalling, do you think these guys don't have a plan to deal with this guy?!? The world seems to think that Trump won't act, I think it's obvious that he will, and there will be no fannying around I think, they will go to take him out once the intel is solid that they can get him.

fxotoole

fxotoole wrote: »

So basically, despite what you Trump supporters believe, he's all words and no action, yet again

And if he takes action, you'll call him a warmonger.

archer22

Something has to happen North Korea can't put with all this bitching..I can see Trump getting a gobfull of VX soon.

I think they will "take him out" when they are sure they can get him...probably when he is vanking Ivanka.

Divelment

Deleted User wrote: »

And if he takes action, you'll call him a warmonger.

It's the next big conflict really, isn't it? The world changed after 9/11 and guys going around, household names running rogue states, going around with their big swinging mickeys threatening the world, and in particular the US, it's just not tolerated anymore. This guy will be dead within a matter of days I reckon. What is truly sad is that the UN and the world can't deal with him, it's uncle Sam to the rescue yet again and then you have the Russians pulling in the opposite direction as always and all the secondary problems that will arise from this conflict.

Cheerful Spring

Deleted User wrote: »

The 10 kilotons refers to a test last year. And other news websites are reporting "megaton".. I guess we'll have to wait for something more official.

If North Korea tested a nuclear device there would be a tremor detected. I don't see any evidence they have carried out another nuclear test? Miniaturizing a small nuke to fit into a missile, is only new information, as they now claim it's a hydrogen bomb not atomic.

Cheerful Spring

Never mind it's seems to be legit, just found out this online.

Photos of Kim Jong Un personally inspecting a supposed thermonuclear weapon preluded the test, which the U.S. Geological Survey detected through a 6.3-magnitude earthquake at around 12:30 p.m. local time.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/north-korea-claims-super-explosive-h-bomb-developed-article-1.3464448

They have done another test oh boy.

Divelment

Just look back at why Iraq was invaded and Saddam Hussein was toppled as leader of that country. It was considered that he "might" have chemical weapons or weapons of mass destruction. As it turned out, he actually hadn't got these weapons at all but Iraq was invaded anyways for the good of humankind and the risk that was assessed to be in place at the time.

This guy has just let off a thermonuclear device that is around 5 times the size of Hiroshima. He didn't threaten it or say he had it, he has done it, it's verifiable. Don't tell me that this act is not going to be dealt with by the world.