US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Cheerful Spring

Infini wrote: »

Honestly I can't see this ending well. Unless the UN gets serious including China and Russia baaically agreeing to a full blockade of NK this will continue on and on. It was was expected tbey would conduct another test at some point but until the penny drops in NK or Fatty drops they need to stop messing around and just get serious.

They say that they may have to accept NK as a nuclear power but I could see those black Ops options being used or a military solution coming into play sooner or later.

There is only two options. Fight a war to end the nuclear threat or just accept NK as a nuclear power and hope NK falls apart by itself ( ie Soviet Union)

Cheerful Spring

Though the precise strength of the blast has yet to be determined, the artificial earthquake it caused was several times stronger than tremors generated by its previous tests. It reportedly shook buildings in China and in Russia.

The test was carried out at 12.29pm local time at the Punggye-ri site where North Korea has conducted nearly all of its past nuclear tests. Officials in Seoul put the magnitude at 5.7 while the US Geological Survey said it was a magnitude 6.3.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/donald-trump-warns-against-north-korea-appeasement-after-nuclear-test-36094911.html

Divelment

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Though the precise strength of the blast has yet to be determined, the artificial earthquake it caused was several times stronger than tremors generated by its previous tests. It reportedly shook buildings in China and in Russia.

The test was carried out at 12.29pm local time at the Punggye-ri site where North Korea has conducted nearly all of its past nuclear tests. Officials in Seoul put the magnitude at 5.7 while the US Geological Survey said it was a magnitude 6.3.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/donald-trump-warns-against-north-korea-appeasement-after-nuclear-test-36094911.html

If Trump ever needed a reason to deal with KJY, this is it, you couldn't make this **** up, you've the ground shaking down as far as China and up as far as Russia, what more grounds do you need to say "enough is enough, we have to now deal with this"?

Cheerful Spring

Divelment wrote: »

If Trump ever needed a reason to deal with KJY, this is it, you couldn't make this **** up, you've the ground shaking down as far as China and up as far as Russia, what more grounds do you need to say "enough is enough, we have to now deal with this"?

The problem is how quickly can you take out his nuclear missile forces? Just 1 to 2 nuclear bombs can take out cities in South Korea and Japan and wipe out millions of people. You have to think about the environmental devastation ( water and air pollution) nuclear winter) economic fallout from war.

ilkhanid

archer22 wrote: »

Of course the answer is talks...that's what China and Russia keep asking for.And as a prelude they want America to stop it's provocative military exercises on the North Korean border.Which North Korea sees as a dress rehearsal for invasion.
Also threats and sanctions and more sanctions and more threats is plain stupid at this stage...they are actually making North Korea stronger and more self reliant.

North Korea doesn't see anything of the sort. It knows there will be no invasion, because an US invasion would require a build-up so massive it would be in train for a year and, more importantly, because China has guaranteed North Korea's defence. This "we fear invasion" malarkey is a whinge, to make themselves look like the injured party.

archer22 wrote: »

A little understanding of the North Korean mindset would be helpful...they have seen their country flattened by America and they believe America is going to try and do that again...threats, sanctions and military exercises on their border reinforces that belief...and they have also seen what has happened to Iraq,Afghanistan and Libya recently.

They saw their country flattened when they attempted an ill-advised invasion of the South. Remember. And it's not the north Korean mindset, it's the Kim mindset.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The problem is how quickly can you take out his nuclear missile forces?

Probably pretty quick if they have the right forces in place ,air ,land and sea followed up by a full helibourne Assault and paratroopers its possible ,

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Probably pretty quick if they have the right forces in place ,air ,land and sea followed up by a full helibourne Assault and paratroopers its possible ,

There is no build up of forces to carry out attacks of this magnitude. I will say this i have a feeling Trump has a couple of nuclear submarines, standing by just to nuke NK, if they strike at cities first. We got to be realistic though a nuclear war is going to destroy Korea for good. Chernobyl has never fully recovered from it's nuclear disaster.

Divelment

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The problem is how quickly can you take out his nuclear missile forces? Just 1 to 2 nuclear bombs can take out cities in South Korea and Japan and wipe out millions of people. You have to think about the environmental devastation ( water and air pollution) nuclear winter) economic fallout from war.

The calculus has changed overnight, he has demonstrated this almost unfathomable capability of demonstrated (as opposed to threatened) mass destruction and somehow or another, the world has to now deal with this threat. It cannot be the order of things that you have this guy with this kind of functionality, he could take out more lives in 10 minutes than all the lives lost in WW1 and WW2 combined, this new nuclear test is a game changer if ever there was one I think.

Cheerful Spring

Divelment wrote: »

The calculus has changed overnight, he has demonstrated this almost unfathomable capability of demonstrated (as opposed to threatened) mass destruction and somehow or another, the world has to now deal with this threat. It cannot be the order of things that you have this guy with this kind of functionality, he could take out more lives in 10 minutes than all the lives lost in WW1 and WW2 combined, this new nuclear test is a game changer if ever there was one I think.

His demonstrated but does this mean he going to launch a strike at South Korea and Japan tomorrow? Kim attempts a pre-emptive his going to be wiped out. I think America and Trump will just have to accept the new reality and live with it. The alternative is not a good option.

Capt'n Midnight

So nuclear or fertiliser ?

Is this a boosted fission device or just a large fission one ?

fxotoole

Divelment wrote: »

Iraq was invaded anyways for the oil reserves, and for Bush's own personal need to finish what his daddy started

Fixed your post

Divelment

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

His demonstrated but does this mean he going to launch a strike at South Korea and Japan tomorrow? Kim attempts a pre-emptive his going to be wiped out. I think America and Trump will just have to accept the new reality and live with it. The alternative is not a good option.

He flew a missile over Japan last week lol, there is no way that I can see where this situation is not going to result in a major conflict. Unlike other previous conflicts where the leaders go to ground have to be pulled out of a hole in a field somewhere, I think this one is gonna kick off with a strike to take him out. He needs to be told, next missile launch, next nuclear test, the gloves come off and your ass is toast if we can take you out.

Infini

The real truth is that it might be possible the US will be forced to strike first either with a decapatication or a flattening of their military facilities even WITH the threat of them attacking Seoul. The real problem is that with H bombs they dont need to actually hit a city itself because those weapons can be detonated in midair for an EMP burst that would fry everything in a MUCH larger radius instead.

Truth is I dont think military options will be the first option I would say it would be the second if the first option were a TOTAL economic blockade. The only way short of taking out the leadership is to instigate a serious blockade of North Korea. This would require China and Russia on board but while they want talks they know this wont be a realistic option because Kim doesnt want to talk he wants nukes and ICBMs fully developed so he can demand instead.

China may not want the US on their border but they'd be losing much more if they keep NK around as that will mean a build up of forces and hardware in the area to contain them, this including Nuclear Armed South Korea AND Japan as well as more antimissile defences like THAAD sprining up. The longer they keep backing NK however subtly the less valuable they become because of their antics.

4068ac1elhodqr

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

So nuclear or fertiliser ?

Is this a boosted fission device or just a large fission one ?

Looks like it's 2-stage, putting it ahead of nations such as Israel, India, and Pakistan. Neighbouring countries are testing for rad levels along borders and one of the monitor's reaction to the 6.3 quake was "ah f...."

The Chinese are probably as much to blame for allowing this carry on, as Kim himself.

Cheerful Spring

Divelment wrote: »

He flew a missile over Japan last week lol, there is no way that I can see where this situation is not going to result in a major conflict. Unlike other previous conflicts where the leaders go to ground have to be pulled out of a hole in a field somewhere, I think this one is gonna kick off with a strike to take him out. He needs to be told, next missile launch, next nuclear test, the gloves come off and your ass is toast if we can take you out.

I said it awhile ago. Trump would not hesitant to stop Kim, it's the people around him, who stop him, or least try to talk him down and say no to war. Trump was always the wild card.

Divelment

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I said it awhile ago. Trump would not hesitant to stop Kim, it's the people around him, who stop him, or least try to talk him down and say no to war. Trump was always the wild card.

But Trump is advised by people like Maddis, who are there to provide military only solutions. There is simply no diplomatic solution to this, it's not even comparable to Cuba where to can start an embargo and then get out a map and draw a radius around an island and you can then stop and search ships and apply and enforce a credible embargo to take some pressure off the situation and try contain events. It couldn't be further from that kind of a scenario...

BillyBobBS

I think it's time the world faced down this madman. NK can not be allowed to continue to intimidate it's neighbour's and eventually the planet with this. I'm actually dumbfounded its been allowed to reach this stage.

Divelment

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I think it's time the world faced down this madman. NK can not be allowed to continue to intimidate it's neighbour's and eventually the planet with this. I'm actually dumbfounded its been allowed to reach this stage.

I'm the exact same, how on earth has it been let get to this stage where the guy has now demonstrated the kind of thermonuclear capabilities that we are now witnessing?

josip

Divelment wrote: »

I think (and hope) that we are days at the most and maybe hours away from seeing a military operation to taking out KJY. I don't think it'll be like the Gulf War where they tell him to step down within 24 hours or whatever or else they will go in, I think this will be a surgical strike where they (the US), will try to take him out with a missile strike.

Don't they have a 1 out of 3 success rate with their surgical strikes from Predators?
Or would it be Tomahawk surgery you're proposing?

kingchess

I suppose we must believe,because we are told,that the only countries that should have nuclear weapons should be -the US.Russia, China,France,the UK.India,Pakistan and Israel.

Gatling

"Cheerful wrote:

America and Trump will just have to accept the new reality and live with it. The alternative is not a good option.

They will take out Kim and his cronies if they allow kim ,they will have to allow Iran and God only knows what other unstable ****holes , which in turns will see a build up of nukes in Europe again

Divelment

josip wrote: »

Don't they have a 1 out of 3 success rate with their surgical strikes from Predators?
Or would it be Tomahawk surgery you're proposing?

Whatever device they use, if they have solid intel on where he is and he is fairly fond of attending these missile launches, I believe they will take him out in a strategic strike. This simply can't continue, this way of doing business, flying missiles over Japan and 100KT nuclear bombs that rattle half the planet from China to Russia, no way is this gonna be let continue in my humble opinion.

josip

Divelment wrote: »

He flew a missile over Japan last week lol, there is no way that I can see where this situation is not going to result in a major conflict. Unlike other previous conflicts where the leaders go to ground have to be pulled out of a hole in a field somewhere, I think this one is gonna kick off with a strike to take him out. He needs to be told, next missile launch, next nuclear test, the gloves come off and your ass is toast if we can take you out.

He's not stupid. he did things in the correct order.
Demonstrate missile range first with the Japan missile, then make people aware you've got thermonuclear capabilities.
If he'd done it in the reverse order, there'd be a risk of a preemptive strike as soon as the missile was detected heading towards Japan.

Divelment

josip wrote: »

He's not stupid. he did things in the correct order.
Demonstrate missile range first with the Japan missile, then make people aware you've got thermonuclear capabilities.
If he'd done it in the reverse order, there'd be a risk of a preemptive strike as soon as the missile was detected heading towards Japan.

All he has done now is brought forward the day where he has to be dealt with. He has had the missile range capabilities by now, he has the nuclear capabilities, we know that too. There are no big surprises here, the only surprise in my view is that all of this has been let go on uncorrected. Talks won't work and sanctions won't work, the only thing that will work is military action and here we have a dictator with a weapon that is well well beyond the destructive capabilities that any previously deviant personality on this earth has been able to deploy.

Look back at all these people in the world who caused the world to have to organise an intervention, Saddam Hussein in recent times, Hitler, Qaddafi, Assad, if you added up the threat that these guys all posed together, you would still not come close to what KJY has assembled as of this weekend.

um7y1h83ge06nx

That's true, he could kill more people than Stalin or Hitler, it's totally crazy.

Grayson

Divelment wrote: »

All he has done now is brought forward the day where he has to be dealt with. He has had the missile range capabilities by now, he has the nuclear capabilities, we know that too. There are no big surprises here, the only surprise in my view is that all of this has been let go on uncorrected. Talks won't work and sanctions won't work, the only thing that will work is military action and here we have a dictator with a weapon that is well well beyond the destructive capabilities that any previously deviant personality on this earth has been able to deploy.

Look back at all these people in the world who caused the world to have to organise an intervention, Saddam Hussein in recent times, Hitler, Qaddafi, Assad, if you added up the threat that these guys all posed together, you would still not come close to what KJY has assembled as of this weekend.

That was the problem. The neo-cons that were in power under Bush had an agenda. And that agenda included Iraq and Afghanistan. It didn't include Korea.

Gatling

Grayson wrote: »

That was the problem. The neo-cons that were in power under Bush had an agenda. And that agenda included Iraq and Afghanistan. It didn't include Korea.

NK got an honourable mention as been part of the axis of evil ,
But yeah they took their eyes off the ball now we have kim with nukes and expect Iran to follow suit .
If this isn't stopped expect a global cold war on multiple fronts

K.Flyer

For years the back and foward between North Korea and the rest of the world has always reminded of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfVmzvyYI4

Samaris

Deleted User wrote: »

He is literally doing what every other president did.. Sanctions.

What in particular do you not like about his handling of NK? As far as I can see, he has had two Americans released while imposing sanctions, and there hasn't been a war.


You seem to believe that people you don't like are either stupid or psychotic. Kim has played his hand perfectly up until now so just imagining him as some loony is grossly underestimating him.

So far, Trump has done nothing untoward, bar perhaps inflaming the situation more with his usual wild rhetoric that he can't back up. There's been a couple of those so far, starting back from the weird lie about sending ships to NK; said ships were going in the opposite direction at the time. Yes, they may have eventually gone there, but that was not the original announcement and it wasn't particularly quickly corrected either. That is a dangerous sort of miscommunicating to be doing.

No, it's not a case that I believe anyone I don't like is stupid or insane, that is very simplistic. I do, however, believe that a man who executes people by anti-aircraft gun, starves his own people, isolates his own people, brainwashes his own people with the same lies his father and grandfather told (although he may be brainwashed himself by now) and has anyone he perceives as a threat murdered is indeed "edging close to psychosis".

Would you like to argue now as to why those are perfectly sane and reasonable things to do?

Gatling

Looks like trump is Threatening to stop all trade with countries supporting NK