US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

BillyBobBS

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

Not really practical but is one tool in the box:
US could cut 'all trade' with countries doing business with North Korea.

But it's about time US built their own cars, phones etc.

Time for that was 10 years ago.

China thinks Trump is bluffing but they are wrong.

Cheerful Spring

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I hope you are right but all the signs point to conflict. I'd say Kim knows his days are numbered one way or another. I hope the people of North Korea will see no bloodshed and can free themselves from this evil bastards reign of terror before it comes to that but unless some high level NK generals make a move in the next few weeks and remove Kim from the equation millions will die.

Don't get me wrong tensions are hot right now. A stupid act by NK could easily cause a war. North korea has the n- bomb, so there is no need to be constantly testing missiles. America is not going to invade NK anytime soon. People say Kim is smart, i disagree his acting dumb. When you got nuclear weapons it not likely a country going to invade you!

Still i believe America brought this on themselves and lets not forget the Bush White house undermined the agreement that froze Pyongyang’s nuclear programme for 9 years. 9/11 and war on terror changed world history.

4068ac1elhodqr

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Time for that was 10 years ago.

China thinks Trump is bluffing but they are wrong.

Yes, but better late than never. He knows they could well take the title of the world's largest, most modern superpower by 2030.

Spearheading the 4th Ind Rev is a tricky tight-rope to walk, as accelerated automation would result in massive sudden jobs losses, and social upheaval. Then again there is the 'draft' option for those newly found redundant.

Pentagon chief James Mattis says any threat to the US or its allies by North Korea will be met with a "massive military response".

His comments came after a national security briefing with President Donald Trump about the secretive communist state's latest nuclear test.

The US are getting more and more agitated over this, the way it's written NK does not even need to do another test lauch.

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Don't get me wrong tensions are hot right now. A stupid act by NK could easily cause a war. North korea has the n- bomb, so there is no need to be constantly testing missiles. America is not going to invade NK anytime soon. People say Kim is smart, i disagree his acting dumb. When you got nuclear weapons it not likely a country going to invade you!

Still i believe America brought lot of this on themselves and lets not forget the Bush White house undermined the agreement that froze Pyongyang’s nuclear programme for 9 years. 9/11 and war on terror changed world history.

NK was an evil backward regime well before 9/11.

Cheerful Spring

BillyBobBS wrote: »

NK was an evil backward regime well before 9/11.

It was Washington who failed to back up the agreement not North korea.

In 1998, both the US and the international atomic energy agency were satisfied that there had been 'no fundamental violation of any aspect of the framework agreement' by North Korea. But on its own pledges, Washington failed to follow through

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/north-korea-missile-test-us-1994-agreed-framework-pyongyang-programme-kim-jong-un-donald-trump-a7876446.html

Infini

The thing is no matter how much he develops nukes they're not gonna save him long term. The irony is had they just kept to themselves then maybe they might survive longer the problem is that by developing nukes they've basically drawn all attention to themselves and its hostile. The chinese are gonna snap at them sooner or later their president even hates kim from some reports. Once they're no longer of use to the chinese and a complete liability they're not gonna last long. China is afraid of refugee's but if NK does something stupid they may end up with the problem either way. If they were to come to a deal with the US where NK were disposed of in return for the US withdrawing their forces from south korea then its game over for chubby chops as his economy would collapse under a serious blockade.

Divelment

Deleted User wrote: »

The US are getting more and more agitated over this, the way it's written NK does not even need to do another test lauch.

The way Trump acts, his unpredictability, you could wake up in the morning to hear that Pyongyang has been removed from the world map. Let's face up to a few basic facts here, a few Tomahawks sent in from a US ship out at sea, it's not going to make a blind bit of a difference here.

Military force, if it is deployed to sort out this situation, it'll be massive and the sole aim of it must be to take out KJY and whatever else can be taken out in a first strike, whole military barracks, command and control/communications hubs, missile launch vehicles, all that artillery lined up along the border, you are basically looking at a country being flattened if it comes to that.

Divelment

Infini wrote: »

The thing is no matter how much he develops nukes they're not gonna save him long term. The irony is had they just kept to themselves then maybe they might survive longer the problem is that by developing nukes they've basically drawn all attention to themselves and its hostile. The chinese are gonna snap at them sooner or later their president even hates kim from some reports. Once they're no longer of use to the chinese and a complete liability they're not gonna last long. China is afraid of refugee's but if NK does something stupid they may end up with the problem either way. If they were to come to a deal with the US where NK were disposed of in return for the US withdrawing their forces from south korea then its game over for chubby chops as his economy would collapse under a serious blockade.

I think KJY is taking advantage of the general unsettled nature of world affairs right now to carry on like this. You have a lot of problems going on at the moment, you have the US and Russia trying to take back Syria & Iraq from ISIS, you have a lot of problems still going on in Afghanistan, you have the US and Europe pretty much divided politically, you have an emerging right in the US and the EU that is challenging the old cosy political order, you have China lining up to be the 3rd world superpower, and in the middle of all of this chaos you have KJY who has rightfully figured out that the world in terms of US leadership, right now, is just spread out too thin.

josip

Divelment wrote: »

...

Military force, if it is deployed to sort out this situation, it'll be massive and the sole aim of it must be to take out KJY and whatever else can be taken out in a first strike, whole military barracks, command and control/communications hubs, missile launch vehicles, all that artillery lined up along the border, you are basically looking at a country being flattened if it comes to that.

And as an ex military man, would you say that the South Koreans/US/Japanese have the military capability in place right now to carry out what you suggest?

If not, how long would it take them to build up the capability?

RobertKK

The Bill Clinton presidency was involved in a lot of the modern days messes - Iraq, North Korea, firing a few cruise missiles at Osama Bin Laden/Al Qaeda which did nothing...

archer22

In 1969 North Korean MIGs shot down a US spy plane off the NK coast killing 31 US military personnel ...EC-121.
America done fock all then but make the same threats its making now.

North Korea, is only a little nation and a nation America would dearly love to destroy but the bottom line is America hasn't the bottle to take it on.

America is only a giant bucket of Pizz that seeks out the weakest of the weak to attack....and even then they never seem to really win.

They are only a military superpower in hollywood movies.

helimachoptor

the problem with build up is that you can only launch so tomahawks from subs.
The question is, how much can the US build up without being caught.


The other issue is, if a build up is detected does NK fire first? SK can't evacuate Seoul prior to action, that just gives the game away.

My own view is that if it were to happen.. it would go something like this:

Cruise missiles have a range of 1,000 km's
so..

US subs would park close to the peninsula and fire, guided missile ships would stay 8/900 kms away and fire. This would be the initial bombardent, aimed to hit land at the same time.

Following in the next minutes would be a massive aerial campaign.

US F22's taking out whatever is left of radar and tracking, B52's, B2's, B1's F15's, F16's, F18's from carriers, the Japanese and SK's following en masse to bomb the **** out of every potential military site.

US Thaad launchers ready to shoot down anything that does make it over the border.

Personally I don't see an invasion.

helimachoptor

Divelment wrote: »

The way Trump acts, his unpredictability, you could wake up in the morning to hear that Pyongyang has been removed from the world map. Let's face up to a few basic facts here, a few Tomahawks sent in from a US ship out at sea, it's not going to make a blind bit of a difference here.

Military force, if it is deployed to sort out this situation, it'll be massive and the sole aim of it must be to take out KJY and whatever else can be taken out in a first strike, whole military barracks, command and control/communications hubs, missile launch vehicles, all that artillery lined up along the border, you are basically looking at a country being flattened if it comes to that.

Agree, the attack would need to be so overwhelming that anything within 50kms of the DMZ is flattened by the US etc.

Divelment

josip wrote: »

And as an ex military man, would you say that the South Koreans/US/Japanese have the military capability in place right now to carry out what you suggest?

If not, how long would it take them to build up the capability?

The military capability is obviously there, NK could be easily dealt with without having to put a soldier on the ground. The problem is what happens next, in a world in so much chaos? Is the world ready to wake up to the news tomorrow morning that Trump has taken the gloves off with KJY and simultaneously taken out every military installation in NK, possibly taken out KJY himself, the entire DMZ would be taken out and everything 20KM north of it to deal with the artillery pieces threatening Seoul. It's probably around 5 million dead at this stage, because a first strike option in this particular case, it has to hit hard, it can't be about landing a few Tomahawks on a runway, it has to be about regime decapitation and depreciating whatever military assets you can find within a first strike scenario.

BillyBobBS

archer22 wrote: »

In 1969 North Korean MIGs shot down a US spy plane off the NK coast killing 31 US military personnel ...EC-121.
America done fock all then but make the same threats its making now.

North Korea, is only a little nation and a nation America would dearly love to destroy but the bottom line is America hasn't the bottle to take it on.

America is only a giant bucket of Pizz that seeks out the weakest of the weak to attack....and even then they never seem to really win.

They are only a military superpower in hollywood movies.

Okay comrade.

Shurimgreat

The Chinese are playing both sides.

I'd say they are only too happy to see a nuclear armed North Korea that's able to fight off any military attack from the west. China want the status quo and the last thing they want is the collapse of the current North Korean regime. I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes the Chinese are helping the NK nuclear program. They've made too many rapid advances for it to be only from their own resources.

BillyBobBS

helimachoptor wrote: »

the problem with build up is that you can only launch so tomahawks from subs.
The question is, how much can the US build up without being caught.


The other issue is, if a build up is detected does NK fire first? SK can't evacuate Seoul prior to action, that just gives the game away.

My own view is that if it were to happen.. it would go something like this:

Cruise missiles have a range of 1,000 km's
so..

US subs would park close to the peninsula and fire, guided missile ships would stay 8/900 kms away and fire. This would be the initial bombardent, aimed to hit land at the same time.

Following in the next minutes would be a massive aerial campaign.

US F22's taking out whatever is left of radar and tracking, B52's, B2's, B1's F15's, F16's, F18's from carriers, the Japanese and SK's following en masse to bomb the **** out of every potential military site.

US Thaad launchers ready to shoot down anything that does make it over the border.

Personally I don't see an invasion.

There won't be an invasion. I still see the most likely scenario as a coup from generals in the NK army who know where this is ending but the window is closing and im talking weeks not months or years. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these generals are in contact with Chinese governments officials right now.

Divelment

helimachoptor wrote: »

the problem with build up is that you can only launch so tomahawks from subs.
The question is, how much can the US build up without being caught.


The other issue is, if a build up is detected does NK fire first? SK can't evacuate Seoul prior to action, that just gives the game away.

My own view is that if it were to happen.. it would go something like this:

Cruise missiles have a range of 1,000 km's
so..

US subs would park close to the peninsula and fire, guided missile ships would stay 8/900 kms away and fire. This would be the initial bombardent, aimed to hit land at the same time.

Following in the next minutes would be a massive aerial campaign.

US F22's taking out whatever is left of radar and tracking, B52's, B2's, B1's F15's, F16's, F18's from carriers, the Japanese and SK's following en masse to bomb the **** out of every potential military site.

US Thaad launchers ready to shoot down anything that does make it over the border.

Personally I don't see an invasion.

I think this will be the first global conflict since WW2 where we don't see "boots on the ground". I can't see US troops in NK, there is no appetite whatsoever in the US since Iraq and Afghanistan for infantry warfare and dead troops coming home on planes from war torn kips like Afghanistan.

But is this guy with his little swinging mickey going to be allowed threaten the world, send missiles over Japan, and then set off 100KT thermonuclear weapons that cause earthquakes in Russia and China?!? I don't think so.

Gatling

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The Chinese are playing both sides.

I'd say they are only too happy to see a nuclear armed North Korea that's able to fight off any military attack from the west. China want the status quo and the last thing they want is the collapse of the current North Korean regime. I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes the Chinese are helping the NK nuclear program. They've made too many rapid advances for it to be only from their own resources.

Them and russia are heavily involved with Kim ,but this is all smoke to cover up china grabbing the majority of the south China sea for itself ,it explains why china are playing both sides and why russia decided to fly bombers towards south Korea in a slightly bizarre passive aggressive show of force last week ,

People are saying if america leaves Korea Kim will settle down but he won't all that will happen is china moves in to open based on the coast to gain more strategic bases to control the south China sea

Timberrrrrrrr

Divelment wrote: »

I think this will be the first global conflict since WW2 where we don't see "boots on the ground". I can't see US troops in NK, there is no appetite whatsoever in the US since Iraq and Afghanistan for infantry warfare and dead troops coming home on planes from war torn kips like Afghanistan.

But is this guy with his little swinging mickey going to be allowed threaten the world, send missiles over Japan, and then set off 100KT thermonuclear weapons that cause earthquakes in Russia and China?!? I don't think so.

You really love to ramp up the rhetoric don't You? :rolleyes:

Hector Bellend

a nice bit of an aul pre-emptive strike

helimachoptor

Divelment wrote: »

I think this will be the first global conflict since WW2 where we don't see "boots on the ground". I can't see US troops in NK, there is no appetite whatsoever in the US since Iraq and Afghanistan for infantry warfare and dead troops coming home on planes from war torn kips like Afghanistan.

But is this guy with his little swinging mickey going to be allowed threaten the world, send missiles over Japan, and then set off 100KT thermonuclear weapons that cause earthquakes in Russia and China?!? I don't think so.

tbh, given how an American attack is likely to impact China (and to a lesser extent Russia) i'm surprised there's been so little from what it appears active involvement from China.

If it does go pear shaped, China will need to clean up a lot of mess.

helimachoptor

Gatling wrote: »

People are saying if america leaves Korea Kim will settle down but he won't all that will happen is china moves in to open based on the coast to gain more strategic bases to control the south China sea

South China Sea isn't anywhere near the Korean peninsula

Phil.x

The only way I can see America wipe out nk and suffer no losses including south Korea and Japan is dropping a nuke or two in stealth, but the bombs can't be too big that they would cause damage in surrounding countries.

But i think I might be reading too many Tom Clancy books.

Divelment

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You really love to ramp up the rhetoric don't You? :rolleyes:

No, being a grown up, I actually hate the fact that we have this problem of a guy who can destroy us and is causing global mayhem. I'd much rather living in a world where we are not facing into WW3. I'd rather we all just get on and that there isn't a crazy fat cuunt out there tonight with a dodgy haircut and with a 100KT thermonuclear weapon who is highly unstable and who nobody has a handle on. :rolleyes:

BoJack Horseman

Phil.x wrote: »

The only way I can see America wipe out nk and suffer no losses including south Korea and Japan is dropping a nuke or two in stealth, but the bombs can't be too big that they would cause damage in surrounding countries

It's not like that anymore.

Back in the Clancy days the nukes were a helluva lot bigger than they are now.

Variable yield is all the rage nowadays.

bilston

In reality a 150KT bomb (while capable of causing untold damage to wherever it hits) is small compared to what the Americans have at their disposal. Basically the North Koreans cannot ever win any war with the US, with this in mind it is surely obvious that they will never strike first.

The only way a war starts is if the US strikes first. If they do I just hope they have all their bases covered. I also hope they have the full cooperation of China. Without it the threat from North Korea will suddenly become very incidental.

The Americans need to realise that once the genie is out of the bottle there is no way of knowing where it will end up. I can't really see any military action by the Americans that doesn't lead to tens of thousands of casualties at the very minimum. We could just as easily be talking about millions.

The time for military action was probably 10 years ago.

Divelment

helimachoptor wrote: »

tbh, given how an American attack is likely to impact China (and to a lesser extent Russia) i'm surprised there's been so little from what it appears active involvement from China.

If it does go pear shaped, China will need to clean up a lot of mess.

Trump won't give a ****, its not like this is going on in his back garden, all those NK refugees won't be landing on Ellis Island, they will be staying down there, and after setting off a 100KT weapon, he isn't stuck for a genuine reason or an excuse to attack.

Divelment

bilston wrote: »

In reality a 150KT bomb (while capable of causing untold damage to wherever it hits) is small compared to what the Americans have at their disposal. Basically the North Koreans cannot ever win any war with the US, with this in mind it is surely obvious that they will never strike first.

The only way a war starts is if the US strikes first. If they do I just hope they have all their bases covered. I also hope they have the full cooperation of China. Without it the threat from North Korea will suddenly become very incidental.

The Americans need to realise that once the genie is out of the bottle there is no way of knowing where it will end up. I can't really see any military action by the Americans that doesn't lead to tens of thousands of casualties at the very minimum. We could just as easily be talking about millions.

The time for military action was probably 10 years ago.

Well you could argue that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle now. Yes this has probably been the worst strategic mistake of modern times, letting him get this far, but it doesn't really matter what the US has in terms of nuclear destruction, what matters now is there we this have a highly aggressive unstable guy with the confirmed ability to put a 100KT device down on any city and vapourise millions of people. Or he could go for an upper atmosphere detonation and cause untold nuclear havoc for decades.