US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

BillyBobBS

Think people are missing the point. Trump (or America in general) don't give a s h it about South Korea. They aren't going to blink an eyelid if a couple of million South Koreans die. Trump cares about NK having the capability to strike US territory be it the mainland or airbases in Guam. And now it's apparent they are capable of doing that NK is screwed,

bilston

Divelment wrote: »

Well you could argue that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle now. Yes this has probably been the worst strategic mistake of modern times, letting him get this far, but it doesn't really matter what the US has in terms of nuclear destruction, what matters now is there we this have a highly aggressive unstable guy with the confirmed ability to put a 100KT device down on any city and vapourise millions of people. Or he could go for an upper atmosphere detonation and cause untold nuclear havoc for decades.

But he won't do it unless he is attacked first. If he does it first he guarentees his and his country's immediate destruction.

BorneTobyWilde

N.K could not careless about invading or dominating anyone, they are just paranoid about others invading them.
I'd let them be. To strike first on them adds fuel to the fire that is their paranoia

BillyBobBS

bilston wrote: »

But he won't do it unless he is attacked first. If he does it first he guarentees his and his country's immediate destruction.

No having nukes capable of reaching the US guarantees his destruction.

Divelment

Mattis tonight with his holding statement, I think it is obvious that they are just scrambling for more time. If they had solid intel on KJY tonight and his whereabouts, he would be toast, a first strike on NK tonight has to take him out or has to do a fairly good job of trying to.

Phil.x

Is there no spies in NK who can take out KJY.

A sniper, a suicide bomber, a drone with a bomb..etc..etc.

BoJack Horseman

Phil.x wrote: »

Is there no spies in NK who can take out KJY.

A sniper, a suicide bomber, a drone with a bomb..etc..etc.

It is believed the South have agents in the country, but no one would know if any are close to the top table.

Cheerful Spring

bilston wrote: »

In reality a 150KT bomb (while capable of causing untold damage to wherever it hits) is small compared to what the Americans have at their disposal. Basically the North Koreans cannot ever win any war with the US, with this in mind it is surely obvious that they will never strike first.

The only way a war starts is if the US strikes first. If they do I just hope they have all their bases covered. I also hope they have the full cooperation of China. Without it the threat from North Korea will suddenly become very incidental.

The Americans need to realise that once the genie is out of the bottle there is no way of knowing where it will end up. I can't really see any military action by the Americans that doesn't lead to tens of thousands of casualties at the very minimum. We could just as easily be talking about millions.

The time for military action was probably 10 years ago.

The bomb that got dropped on Nagasaki was just 20 Kiltons and this bomb killed 80,000 people and untold numbers got injured. A device 6 times stronger would wipe out a modern city.

People on here asking for war better be right North Korea can't strike back? If they do strike back millions of people will die and we better be sure China will not join and help North Korea.

BoJack Horseman

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Think people are missing the point. Trump (or America in general) don't give a s h it about South Korea. They aren't going to blink an eyelid if a couple of million South Koreans die. Trump cares about NK having the capability to strike US territory be it the mainland or airbases in Guam. And now it's apparent they are capable of doing that NK is screwed,

Citation?

Everything I've read on the matter show that the American people are more enthusiastic about the alliance than the vise versa.

South Korea wouldn't exist if it wasn't for America.

bilston

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The bomb that got dropped on Nagasaki was just 20 Kiltons and this bomb killed 80,000 people and untold numbers got injured. A device 6 times stronger would wipe out a modern city.

People on here asking for war better be right North Korea can't strike back? If they do strike back millions of people will die and we better be sure China will not join and help North Korea.

I know a 150 KT would cause untold loss of life, but the Americans have 20MT devices (200 times more powerful again), half a dozen of those would probably destroy the entire country of North Korea. That's why North Korea will never strike first.

Trump seems to have a decent relationship with his Chinese counterpart, that relationship holds the key one way or another.

Academic

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Think people are missing the point. Trump (or America in general) don't give a s h it about South Korea. They aren't going to blink an eyelid if a couple of million South Koreans die. Trump cares about NK having the capability to strike US territory be it the mainland or airbases in Guam. And now it's apparent they are capable of doing that NK is screwed,

Well, I remember the final days of Nixon, and if I recall correctly staffers close to him feared he was so unstable that he might launch nukes. It wasn't just the left, by the way, the concerned people included Barry Goldwater. If I recall correctly, people were instructed not to act on his instructions to launch if he issued them. I can't recall the details, however.

I suspect that something like this might happen with Trump.

BillyBobBS

South Korea have just held a ballistic missile drill. This is all heading in one direction.

BillyBobBS

Academic wrote: »

Well, I remember the final days of Nixon, and if I recall correctly staffers close to him feared he was so unstable that he might launch nukes. It wasn't just the left, by the way, the concerned people included Barry Goldwater. If I recall correctly, people were instructed not to act on his instructions to launch if he issued them. I can't recall the details, however.

I suspect that something like this might happen with Trump.

Who said Trump was going to use nukes?

BoJack Horseman

bilston wrote: »

the Americans have 20MT devices

No, no they don't

Academic

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Who said Trump was going to use nukes?

Several people in the thread.

BillyBobBS

Academic wrote: »

Several people in the thread.

Posters on boards? Well that's it then pass me the iodine tablets.

josip

Divelment wrote: »

Well you could argue that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle now. Yes this has probably been the worst strategic mistake of modern times, letting him get this far, but it doesn't really matter what the US has in terms of nuclear destruction, what matters now is there we this have a highly aggressive unstable guy with the confirmed ability to put a 100KT device down on any city and vapourise millions of people. Or he could go for an upper atmosphere detonation and cause untold nuclear havoc for decades.

Are you referring to Trump or Kim in the above?

BillyBobBS

There will be no use of nuclear weapons by the US. If Kim isn't taken out by China in the next few weeks i believe we will see a massive conventional strike unlike anything witnessed in history. You can be sure that Mattis and his generals have detailed plans ready to go and that statement this evening sends a clear message.

Phil.x

Is the area after a nuclear bomb, radioactive for thousands of years afterwards, half-life an all the stuff.

Kermit.de.frog

What happens to North Korea when they try nuke US

BoJack Horseman

Phil.x wrote: »

Is the area after a nuclear radioactive for thousands of years afterwards, half-life an all the stuff.

No.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are still there, aren't they.

Phil.x

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are still there, aren't they.

Well whats the difference between that and chernobyl.

Cheerful Spring

bilston wrote: »

I know a 150 KT would cause untold loss of life, but the Americans have 20MT devices (200 times more powerful again), half a dozen of those would probably destroy the entire country of North Korea. That's why North Korea will never strike first.

Trump seems to have a decent relationship with his Chinese counterpart, that relationship holds the key one way or another.

If war begun, NK is not going to care about the damage, it's over for them. They'll only care about striking back with everything they have. If all we know Kim could be trying to bait the Americans to attack him? His military must be sick of waiting for this war to come?

Xi Jinping dislikes Trump.

bilston

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No, no they don't

Ah, it appears they have tested weapons of this size or close to it but haven't weaponised them or have decommissioned their larger weapons. Nevertheless they still have a far bigger Arsenal and capability than North Korea so my point still stands. North Korea cannot defeat the United States militarily and therefore they won't strike first.

BoJack Horseman

Phil.x wrote: »

Well whats the difference between that and chernobyl.

A bomb is a controlled reaction, Fission in the case of the Hiroshima bomb, fusion in modern bombs....

Chernobyl was in effect a massive explosion of low purity nuclear material thrown over a wide area, no fusion/fission reaction to dissipate the atoms involved.

Cheerful Spring

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are still there, aren't they.

Those bombs were exploded high up in the air. They were not detonated at ground level.

aloyisious

I'm not sure if the stance taken by the other world powers which have access to nuclear weapons is purely for show but find it interesting that they, being on the UN council, have taken a similar stance towards NK and it's generally unsafe rattling of its nuclear weaponry that the US has {that it is an unsafe thing to do which has made other nations feel distinctly unsafe].

Stating that your aim is to get the capability to use nuclear weapons on another nation tends to make superpowers look at pre-emptive action against the threat, which could be simply done against a small number in a politburo, and not on a nationwide scale. Personally I feel that if Kim insists on playing the war-card, he, and not his fellow-nationals, should pay the price for it.

Cheerful Spring

Phil.x wrote: »

Is the area after a nuclear bomb, radioactive for thousands of years afterwards, half-life an all the stuff.

No. Nuclear fallout generally lasts 6 to 8 weeks, about a year before you can come back in and rebuild. a If the nuclear bomb hit a city with a nuclear power station this would be a huge problem and this place would be inhabitable for years. Radiation can continue to leak after the blast at the reactor/blast site.

jimmycrackcorm

bilston wrote:

The time for military action was probably 10 years ago.

Ten years from now we will probably be saying the time to nuke NK was ten years ago.

kona

Amazing that it comes down to the us to sort this **** out again.
How many nukes can nk have? You dont pull that sort of uranium out of your hole.