US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Hande hoche!

Think they are setting up another round of sanctions. Although the language is fairly frosty in the security council.

howamidifferent

I don't know what the solution is here, but it saddens me to see the apparent indifference to the possible hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent lives that could be lost here in the Korean peninsula if military action is taken by either or both sides in this dispute. No matter the outcome, there can be no winners in such a large scale conflict.

Cantona's Collars

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

What channel are you watching?

edit: no matter, sky are showing the british ambassador, as if they matter in the slightest.

Sky had it live,the US representative basically saying decades of talks ignored by NK and although the US has patience it isn't unlimited.

4068ac1elhodqr

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

What channel are you watching?

edit: no matter, sky are showing the british ambassador, as if they matter in the slightest.

They are within the 6,210mile range, and probably also not on Kim's holiday postcard list.

One separate important thing no one's mentioned is NK's deliberate emphasis (within their latest statement) on 'EMP capability', if anyone's Casio watch suddenly stops working, that'll be why.

bear1

Trump threatening trading sanctions against other country's is a stupid move though.
He needs to gain the support from them not threaten them.
Still don't think conflict is the answer here and with Russia and China both trying through diplomacy it would pretty damn stupid of trump to strike first.

rossie1977

Mr.H wrote: »

I think that the states have no choice but to strike first. North Korea are like a little scobe being refused into a nightclub. They are just standing there telling the bouncer he has a bag full of knives and is going to throw one at the bouncer. Instead the scum bag throws a couple of knives closer and closer to the feet of the bouncer. What should the bouncer do? He already asked the scum bags friend to bring him away. The friend says his buddy is in the wrong but can't actually do anything about it. All the while those knives are getting closer.

The bouncer needs to knock the scobe the f*** out.

This isn't about being pro or anti trump. This is about how to stop north Korea. Obama did nothing and all the while this scut had his own whole family killed and his power even more established. He wants to be remembered as the guy who stood up to America's influence. While his reasoning is all well and good, his method is dangerous and will get himself killed along with half the world.

War is the only solution when diplomacy is bot an option

That analogy doesn't really work. It's more like a scumbag in his own home and the police, security outside his wall taunting and teasing him while he comes out and fires a gun in the air to tell them stay off his property or he will kill them.

It wasn't Obama's place to do anything past what he did do and it's not Trump. The North Koreans have been readying themselves for an invasion from the imperialist us (as they view them) for the last 50 years. If the us attack then everything the kims have said about America has been right and at that point 25 million North Koreans will willingly give up their life.

America can do nothing unless North Korea attack first then all bets are off. Attack first and South Korea will be destroyed and you drag Russia and China into a global nuclear war against the us.

suicide_circus

What do the anti americans here think should be done re the nuclear armament of north korea?

HONKEY TONK

suicide_circus wrote: »

What do the anti americans here think should be done re the nuclear armament of north korea?

Anti Americans or Anti Trump?

suicide_circus

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Anti Americans or Anti Trump?

I don't think Trump will be allowed to drop a load of nukes via a tweet.
There is clear anti american sentiment here, quite separate from the Trump factor.
What do the blame america for everything brigade suggest be done re the nuclear armament of north korea?

This is the perfect scenario for these people

1. The US do nothing, north korea build a rudimentary but viable nuclear arsenal and at best destabilise the region for years to come or at worst launch a nuclear strike. End result, blame america for not acting.

2. The US take some kind of military action resulting in the ending of north koreas nuclear ambitions but destabilising the region for years. End result, blame america.

Shurimgreat

howamidifferent wrote: »

I don't know what the solution is here, but it saddens me to see the apparent indifference to the possible hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent lives that could be lost here in the Korean peninsula if military action is taken by either or both sides in this dispute. No matter the outcome, there can be no winners in such a large scale conflict.

You probably need to think of future generations when overthrowing a regime.

The allies caused hundreds of thousands if not millions of civilian deaths during WW2. But the succeeding generations in Europe reaped the benefit.

They say you have to be mad to use a nuclear weapon. Well the current NK leader comes close to that criteria.
Once acquired, there is little to stop NK invading the south if they so wish. Or kicking off a conflict.

aloyisious

Evie Big Troop wrote: »

They are within the 6,210mile range, and probably also not on Kim's holiday postcard list.

One separate important thing no one's mentioned is NK's deliberate emphasis (within their latest statement) on 'EMP capability', if anyone's Casio watch suddenly stops working, that'll be why.

Umm, EMP. Back to the future, valve radios.

bilston

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

What channel are you watching?

edit: no matter, sky are showing the british ambassador, as if they matter in the slightest.

Well they are a permanent member of the UN Security Council and have their own nuclear arsenal so they matter a little bit.

That said I'd rather they kept their noses out of this crisis...for all our sakes...

Avatar MIA

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Once acquired, there is little to stop NK invading the south if they so wish.

Kim knows he's ruling the runt of the family, he'd sacrifice millions of his people to get his hands on the wealth of the south.

Is he mad enough to gamble being the emperor of a shít heap to get the mega prize.

He's surrounded by yes men (you can tell they're the ones still living) and I think he may just be mad enough.

ilkhanid

archer22 wrote: »

North Korea, is only a little nation and a nation America would dearly love to destroy......

Only America? I'd say South Korea, Japan, Malaysia and Burma would like that too. And China wouldn't shed many tears.

archer22 wrote: »

America is only a giant bucket of Pizz that seeks out the weakest of the weak to attack....and even then they never seem to really win.
They are only a military superpower in hollywood movies.

Saddam wasn't that weak. Nor was Japan. Nor China during the Korean war.

Deleted User wrote: »

How can you just dismiss the only logical reason, just because you're absolutely mad for war?

Everything Kim has done has been an effort at self-preservation but you want to believe he's just going to get himself and his country destroyed within a few weeks by starting a war he can't win. Look at what happened Hussein or Gaddafi.. He's avoiding that.

Note. Both Ghaddafi and Saddam were killed by their own people.

Lirange

rossie1977 wrote: »

That analogy doesn't really work. It's more like a scumbag in his own home and the police, security outside his wall taunting and teasing him while he comes out and fires a gun in the air to tell them stay off his property or he will kill them.

It wasn't Obama's place to do anything past what he did do and it's not Trump. The North Koreans have been readying themselves for an invasion from the imperialist us (as they view them) for the last 50 years. If the us attack then everything the kims have said about America has been right and at that point 25 million North Koreans will willingly give up their life.

Regardless of when or under what circumstances they would attack I really doubt a full scale land invasion by the US is on the cards. Their may aim will be to cripple North Korea from the air. One of the main high value targets obviously being Kim Jong-un himself. Using drones, missiles, and the full compliment of their air superiority. Conventional military structure means easier targets. Primarily special forces/SEALS would be deployed in NK to support the air operations. Ground forces would mainly be used to hold the line on the DMZ. The US will likely leave it to the South Koreans to move into the North in the aftermath. If the US and it's allies can take out the leadership would all 25 million North Koreans still willingly give up their lives? Is it loyalty or fear that motivates most of them? That's an open question.

SSr0

Lirange wrote: »

Regardless of when or under what circumstances they would attack I really doubt a full scale land invasion by the US is on the cards. Their may aim will be to cripple North Korea from the air. One of the main high value targets obviously being Kim Jong-un himself. Using drones, missiles, and the full compliment of their air superiority. Primarily special forces/SEALS would be deployed in NK to support the air operations. Ground forces would mainly be used to hold the line on the DMZ. The US will likely leave it to the South Koreans to move into the North in the aftermath. If the US and it's allies can take out the leadership would all 25 million North Koreans still willingly give up their lives? Is it loyalty or fear that motivates most of them? That's an open question.

SEALS would be deployed to support air operations? Tell me more...

jackboy

Lirange wrote: »

If the US and it's allies can take out the leadership would all 25 million North Koreans still willingly give up their lives? Is it loyalty or fear that motivates most of them? That's an open question.

No, they would quickly surrender. Even before the NK leadership is taken out. The NK army is in a dreadful state.

4068ac1elhodqr

aloyisious wrote: »

Umm, EMP. Back to the future, valve radios.

Wouldn't the average 12AX7 valve on a semi-modern radio board get slightly fried too? Best to keep all those hand-cranked radios in unused lead-lined fridges.

Their specific emphasis on ha-emp is curious, one single release up at 294miles could effect either the entire contential-us, or the Europa grid for that matter.

Imagine the panic from the young selfie-Instagram generation if they can't upload their self-assuring freshly Botox'd parts twice a day, on the latest gen8 mobile phones.

Lirange

SSr0 wrote: »

SEALS would be deployed to support air operations? Tell me more...

Close Air Support. It's part of what they do. Behind enemy lines they can collect intell, recover downed pilots, ID targets, etc.

Could NK sneak a nuke into the US and detonate it!
The tinfoil is quite thick on this story that I've lifted from another forum, but is there any realistic possibility of anything like this ever happening?

Of course, NYC has always been the #1 target in the USA. With The Donald in residence in Trump Tower, doubly so.

The NK hydrogen bomb that we saw on the news is smaller than a Samsung refrigerator. All the NK's have to do is smuggle it into SK, place it in an appliance being exported to NYC - or Chicago - or Atlanta - or LA - or Washington, DC. Most likely target list: NYC plus as many additional cities as he has bombs for. All set to detonate at more or less the same time.

Then the little fat man has won the first nuclear war. It really won't matter if we destroy his country afterwards, once he has killed over 100 Million Americans.

Do I actually think that the Little Fat Man will kill 100 Million? No, I don't. My guess is he will do his level best to do so, and end up with a death toll of 20-80 million. This will happen while we are busy watching him play with his missiles.

SSr0

Lirange wrote: »

Close Air Support. It's part of what they do. Behind enemy lines they can collect intell, recover downed pilots, ID targets, etc.

****. I wouldn't envy them lads being the only boots on the ground there.

mbur

I'm astounded at the general level of ignorance being shown on this thread.
What the media has failed to mention about the North Korea missile test, is that for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea. These needlessly provocative war games are designed to simulate an invasion of North Korea and a “decapitation” operation to remove the regime. Kim Jong-un has asked the US repeatedly to end these military exercises, but the US has refused. The US reserves the right to threaten anyone, anytime and anywhere even right on their doorstep. It’s part of what makes the US exceptional. It might also be mentioned that theses exercised are repeated every year and are timed to coincide with harvest season in NK. ie to make gathering food as difficult as possible for the NK people. LINK

Doltanian

I think North Korea has achieved its aims of establishing itself as a Nuclear Power and MAD is assured. Just stop prodding the wasps nest and open dialogue, maybe build a peace treaty to officially end the Korean war, soon enough the lure of money would deliver NK into capitalism like Vietnam, China and Cuba. If the powers that be in NK would benefit enough financially then a United Korea is a possibility.

Irish Praetorian

mbur wrote: »

I'm astounded at the general level of ignorance being shown on this thread.
What the media has failed to mention about the North Korea missile test, is that for the last three weeks, Japan, South Korea and the US have been engaged in large-scale joint-military drills on Hokkaido Island and in South Korea. These needlessly provocative war games are designed to simulate an invasion of North Korea and a “decapitation” operation to remove the regime. Kim Jong-un has asked the US repeatedly to end these military exercises, but the US has refused. The US reserves the right to threaten anyone, anytime and anywhere even right on their doorstep. It’s part of what makes the US exceptional. It might also be mentioned that theses exercised are repeated every year and are timed to coincide with harvest season in NK. ie to make gathering food as difficult as possible for the NK people. LINK

Your source includes the following gem:

"In other words, the test was [...] a modest and well thought-out response by a country that has experienced 64 years of relentless hectoring, sanctions, demonization and saber rattling by Washington"

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of people to plead the case of even the most despicable regimes provided they can get an Anti-American jibe in. North Korea cannot play the part of poor victim given just it's history in the past 10 years of nuclear proliferation, missile tests and deadly attacks on South Korean soil. I found the writers closing chant of 'Yankee go home' just to neatly seal the absurdity of this piece, and I would caution you not to be taken in by it either.

Gringo180

Mr.H wrote: »

I think that the states have no choice but to strike first. North Korea are like a little scobe being refused into a nightclub. They are just standing there telling the bouncer he has a bag full of knives and is going to throw one at the bouncer. Instead the scum bag throws a couple of knives closer and closer to the feet of the bouncer. What should the bouncer do? He already asked the scum bags friend to bring him away. The friend says his buddy is in the wrong but can't actually do anything about it. All the while those knives are getting closer.

The bouncer needs to knock the scobe the f*** out.

This isn't about being pro or anti trump. This is about how to stop north Korea. Obama did nothing and all the while this scut had his own whole family killed and his power even more established. He wants to be remembered as the guy who stood up to America's influence. While his reasoning is all well and good, his method is dangerous and will get himself killed along with half the world.

War is the only solution when diplomacy is bot an option

This would be a perfect analogy if that Bouncer previously burned the scobes house down and killed half of his family in the process.

Divelment

There is speculation that he is getting ready to launch another ICBM, I reckon the US will be taking the gloves off immediately afterwards.

BillyBobBS

Divelment wrote: »

There is speculation that he is getting ready to launch another ICBM, I reckon the US will be taking the gloves off immediately afterwards.

It will be shot down as soon as it leaves NK airspace. If it doesn't leave NK airspace nothing will happen.

I think Kim in mentally ill and liable to do anything at this stage. If he feels the walls closing in on him from within NK from the generals it's highly likely he attacks the South or Japan.

archer22

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Your source includes the following gem:

"In other words, the test was [...] a modest and well thought-out response by a country that has experienced 64 years of relentless hectoring, sanctions, demonization and saber rattling by Washington"

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of people to plead the case of even the most despicable regimes provided they can get an Anti-American jibe in. North Korea cannot play the part of poor victim given just it's history in the past 10 years of nuclear proliferation, missile tests and deadly attacks on South Korean soil. I found the writers closing chant of 'Yankee go home' just to neatly seal the absurdity of this piece, and I would caution you not to be taken in by it either.

If lets just say for example if Britain had launched a massive bombing attack on the Irish republic in the 1950s that flattened nearly every building and killed 25% of the population.And every year since Britain held a dress rehearsal on the Northern Ireland border for another invasion...and imposed crippling sanctions on the ROI for trying to develop weapons of self defence and deterrence.
Would it then be fair to regard Britain as the good guy and the ROI as the bad guy who needed to "be taken out".

mbur

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Your source includes the following gem:

"In other words, the test was [...] a modest and well thought-out response by a country that has experienced 64 years of relentless hectoring, sanctions, demonization and saber rattling by Washington"

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of people to plead the case of even the most despicable regimes provided they can get an Anti-American jibe in. North Korea cannot play the part of poor victim given just it's history in the past 10 years of nuclear proliferation, missile tests and deadly attacks on South Korean soil. I found the writers closing chant of 'Yankee go home' just to neatly seal the absurdity of this piece, and I would caution you not to be taken in by it either.

I think 64 years of persecution trumps 10 years yada yada. I suppose the three years of carpet bombing 1950 to 53 is just business as usual to you. So by all means you can plead the case of American exceptionalism all you want. They can threaten anyone anywhere any time. It's their right or so you think.

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

Could NK sneak a nuke into the US and detonate it!
The tinfoil is quite thick on this story that I've lifted from another forum, but is there any realistic possibility of anything like this ever happening?

Speaking of tinfoil hats, haven't China gotten nukes in shipping containers in yards in Washing, New York, LA, etc?
Sitting there quietly in case they're ever needed.