US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

BillyBobBS

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Trump does not care and the hawks likely don't care, i would not claim everyone in the United States does not care!

I believe Trump would have attacked ages ago, his only stopped by his cabinet and south Korea and Japan telling him no give diplomacy a chance.

If the reports are correct and North is about to launch an ICBM towards the Pacific depending on where it lands, we could be seeing a war very soon.

I'd be surprised if it leaves North Korean airspace from here on in. The risks are now too big.

Arthur Daley

Gold was pretty much at the same level one year ago as it is today. It had spiked higher than current levels immediately after the brexit vote. It is up maybe 10% since early July but it's been bobbbling along at these levels for a few years now.

Irish Praetorian

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Kim is a dictator and North Korea would be better off without him ,but don't try to paint America as the innocent party. America got a chance to denuclearize the region in 1994 and they undermined the deal after the 9/11 attacks.. Lets ignore Kim send a signal to the United states by not firing a missile at Guam! America had a chance to de-escalate (what they do instead) they had a war drill for 2 weeks right next door to NK.

The big worry now is Trump is annoying China with threats and Russia on the sidelines is not fond of America either. We better have everything in order who is backing who before we go to war. I don't want to wake up in the morning and hear China is at war with America.

With respect, I don't see people painting the US an 'innocent party' or a nation without it's own motivations...anywhere, ever. But that being said, it takes a masterful amount of convoluted thinking to suggest that the North Korean missile programme, directed by the North Korean government, funded and operated domestically with the benefit of Russian and Chinese diplomatic protection, is the fault of the US failing to fully commit to the 1990s deal (great job Congressional Republicans). It's a bit of a disservice to the rest of the world to imply they are merely innate pawns incapable of their own actions unless reaction to a US decision - a disservice and a dangerous assumption at that.

mbur

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Haha typical RTE so full of sh it. Yeah Trump is a loose cannon and Kim is a saint. The comrades in Montrose never fail to amuse.

Kim a saint? Knowing how to play your poker hand does not make one a saint. Recognising that fact does not make you a 'comrade'. The news department at Montrose is very much in the maw of the establishment btw. The establishment don't like the Donald. That is pretty obvious.

Don't worry, now that Kim has exploded his new bomb we can all rest a bit easier.

josip

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

A Hbomb detonated in the air, said by the Soviets, can cause an EMP that will fry all electronics and power.. The country will go dark essentially. Rumors for years the North Koreans got their hands on their plans and how to carry this out.

A single EMP Nuke would only have a large regional impact and not a global impact due to the deflection of the earth's magnetic field.
Kim would need at least one for the US, probably 2 and another for Europe.
I don't think his ICBM's have the range for a European EMP.

BillyBobBS

mbur wrote: »

Kim a saint? Knowing how to play your poker hand does not make one a saint. Recognising that fact does not make you a 'comrade'. The news department at Montrose is very much in the maw of the establishment btw. The establishment don't like the Donald. That is pretty obvious.

Don't worry, now that Kim has exploded his new bomb we can all rest a bit easier.

Said nobody ever.

Kermit.de.frog

EMP and Nuke are one of the same thing.

All an EMP is, is a nuke detonated in the atmosphere.

4,000th post!

Mrself

This is all very scary. Shouldn't have watched the 80s bbc drama movie "threads" recently, its frightened the bejaysus outta me.

Divelment

We could be looking at the first truly global conflict where nuclear weapons will be used from the outset. At least in WW2 there was the invasion of Normandy and it was war fought by the old rules of infantry, artillery, moving battalions and brigades around, etc. Yes two nuclear weapons were developed and ultimately used to end the war but what we are seeing here is just completely uncharted waters, regarding the new rules of warfare.


KJU could in theory take out Japan tonight or South Korea, if he got one away and it wasn't intercepted, he could put a nuclear device on a sub and just send the sub to wherever it is he wants to take out and a 100KT bomb is no laughing matter.

A 100KT device would probably kill most people in Ireland if it was landed in the midlands...

http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/catastrophic-harm/blast-heat-and-radiation/

Academic

Mrself wrote: »

This is all very scary. Shouldn't have watched the 80s bbc drama movie "threads" recently, its frightened the bejaysus outta me.

As it should. The U.S. t.v. film "The Day After," shown around the same time, is also worth watching.

archer22

There is no escaping the fact that the Korean issue is an American made problem.
America should have stayed the hell out of the Korean civil war...it was none the hell of America's business.It was an internal Korean issue.
If they had stayed out Korea would have been a united nation long ago and the conflict consigned to the pages of history.
After all real peace only came to Vietnam after the US was driven out, if they had not been expelled Vietnam would still be a war zone...it was the failure to clear America off the Korean peninsula that left it a simmering tinderbox.
Its natural for ethnic nations to be united...when this is prevented conflict always rages at some level.
And has America learned anything....hell no!
There they are now uninvited stuck into the Syrian civil war :mad:

Kermit.de.frog

Mrself wrote: »

This is all very scary. Shouldn't have watched the 80s bbc drama movie "threads" recently, its frightened the bejaysus outta me.

Very old and dated depictions but the movie "The Day After" came out at the same time in the US. Ironically enough the film also depicted an EMP attack in the strikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSvWSlmefUU

The film is, I think, the most watched ever in a single evening and left a real mark on the population. But that was the cold war...

mbur

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Said nobody ever.

I am somebody and I just said it twice. Just keep an eye on that Trump guy.

emo72

"Threads" makes "The Day After" look like a disney movie.

Divelment

archer22 wrote: »

There is no escaping the fact that the Korean issue is an American made problem.
America should have stayed the hell out of the Korean civil war...it was none the hell of America's business.It was an internal Korean issue.
If they had stayed out Korea would have been a united nation long ago and the conflict consigned to the pages of history.
After all real peace only came to Vietnam after the US was driven out, if they had not been expelled Vietnam would still be a war zone...it was the failure to clear America off the Korean peninsula that left it a simmering tinderbox.
Its natural for ethnic nations to be united...when this is prevented conflict always rages at some level.
And has America learned anything....hell no!
There they are now uninvited stuck into the Syrian civil war :mad:

It's easy to blame America for problems all around the world but the long and the short of it I think is that the wider world has not worked out a way of dealing with dictators and rouge personalities who end up in charge of states, whether it be Hitler, KYU or Saddam Hussein who whoever it happens to be.

This is the first time we have a dictator with his hands on a proven & verified 100KT nuclear weapon. The ballistic delivery system at this point is completely moot because these things can be delivered by truck, ship, boat, dropped off the back of a cargo plane, if you have actually developed the the nuclear technology and the capability and you want to deploy it somewhere.

The UN yet again has not found a way to deal with what is clearly an unprecedented threat to world peace, in terms of where he is now at with a very substantial nuclear capability.

You would think that the US, Russia, and China would be all in a room somewhere tonight trying to agree on a collective course of action here that will take the world back from what appears to be the brink of a third world war but you have Trump, a vastly inexperienced world leader, on Twitter and the UN talking about more "sanctions"?!? Sanctions clearly haven't worked!!! If the guy has a 100KT nuclear device, sanctions clearly have not worked, forget about sanctions!!!

ohnonotgmail

archer22 wrote: »

There is no escaping the fact that the Korean issue is an American made problem.
America should have stayed the hell out of the Korean civil war...it was none the hell of America's business.It was an internal Korean issue.
If they had stayed out Korea would have been a united nation long ago and the conflict consigned to the pages of history.
After all real peace only came to Vietnam after the US was driven out, if they had not been expelled Vietnam would still be a war zone...it was the failure to clear America off the Korean peninsula that left it a simmering tinderbox.
Its natural for ethnic nations to be united...when this is prevented conflict always rages at some level.
And has America learned anything....hell no!
There they are now uninvited stuck into the Syrian civil war :mad:

That reads word for word like another poster. It was bull**** then and it is bull**** now.

Nettle Soup

Jaysus I wish the North Korean leader would get back in his box and let me get back to worrying about ISIS, Ebola and Zebra Mussels!

archer22

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

That reads word for word like another poster. It was bull**** then and it is bull**** now.

I love those kind of responses.
It tells me the author is unable to think of anything of any value to contribute to the discussion ...and hence just displays childish frustration

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

There is no escaping the fact that the Korean issue is an American made problem.
America should have stayed the hell out of the Korean civil war...it was none the hell of America's business.It was an internal Korean issue.

Wrong it was a Russian , Chinese problem they incouraged the attacks and subsequent invasion of south Korea,and eventually paid a heavy price in the end

Maybe stick to the facts and not makey upey stuff bs

Kermit.de.frog

Pyongyang



























Great skyline. Has potential under the capitalist system.

Cheerful Spring

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

With respect, I don't see people painting the US an 'innocent party' or a nation without it's own motivations...anywhere, ever. But that being said, it takes a masterful amount of convoluted thinking to suggest that the North Korean missile programme, directed by the North Korean government, funded and operated domestically with the benefit of Russian and Chinese diplomatic protection, is the fault of the US failing to fully commit to the 1990s deal (great job Congressional Republicans). It's a bit of a disservice to the rest of the world to imply they are merely innate pawns incapable of their own actions unless reaction to a US decision - a disservice and a dangerous assumption at that.

I started this thread in April and most of the people who have commented support the United States view on this. Only a few people have looked at this as a two side issue. Even you just now can't accept the United States did any wrong and is not at fault.

jimmycrackcorm

archer22 wrote: »

I love those kind of responses.
It tells me the author is unable to think of anything of any value to contribute to the discussion ...and hence just displays childish frustration

Don't you think America should have stayed out of the European WWII conflict and stuck to just fighting Japan?

As for staying out of Korea do you think the South Koreans would have preferred to live under the Il Sung dynasty?

Your thinking reminds me of people who watch someone being beaten on the street and walk by saying it's not my problem.

I don't know how anyone can defend NK with the Il Sung's following in the footsteps of brutal dicators such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin

archer22

Gatling wrote: »

Wrong it was a Russian , Chinese problem they incouraged the attacks and subsequent invasion of south Korea,and eventually paid a heavy price in the end

Maybe stick to the facts and not makey upey stuff bs

"makey upey stuff bs" another poor frustrated child with nothing to add.

This is getting hilarious

Divelment

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Don't you think America should have stayed out of the European WWII conflict and stuck to just fighting Japan?

As for staying out of Korea do you think the South Koreans would have preferred to live under the Il Sung dynasty?

Your thinking reminds me of people who watch someone being beaten on the street and walk by saying it's not my problem.

I don't know how anyone can defend NK with the Il Sung's following in the footsteps of brutal dicators such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin

+100, I can't understand how the world is being so patient with this guy, they are only encouraging him with this total lack of consensus on how to deal with him. In fairness, the situation is very fluid at the moment and is changing by the hour, but what is clear is that catastrophic weaknesses at UN level have been severely exposed. Say he attacks Japan tonight after having a few whiskeys, who gets the blame for the fallout then?

Back in the 90's at least the UN had a military solution for world events, for example Sarajevo. Yeah a balls was made of enforcing a so called "safe zone", but there was at least a military solution deployed. Fast forward 20 years and the best we can come up with in terms of a world response is "more sanctions", when sanctions have clearly failed!

archer22

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Don't you think America should have stayed out of the European WWII conflict and stuck to just fighting Japan?

As for staying out of Korea do you think the South Koreans would have preferred to live under the Il Sung dynasty?

Your thinking reminds me of people who watch someone being beaten on the street and walk by saying it's not my problem.

I don't know how anyone can defend NK with the Il Sung's following in the footsteps of brutal dicators such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin

I think you will find America and Britain helped Stalin to enslave half of Europe.

Ironically they ended up after the war coming to the same conclusions as Hitler regarding the Soviet Union.

As for seeing someone being beaten up on the street...yep its their problem not mine..and if they are family members they will be friends again the next day, but I will have problems with them forever after.
Minding your own business is a good attitude to have in life

Gatling

archer22 wrote: »

"i makey upey stuff bs im a poor frustrated child with nothing to add.

Totally agree

jimmycrackcorm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

China has advanced submarines and ICBM's they can take out cities in Europe and America at will. My biggest fear is China will help North Korea. If China is involved the war can slip from regional Asian war to a global war. You just know the UK will help America.

I understand your fear because the Chinese would prefer to sell their goods to NK instead and they don't care one bit about the amount of money they have invested in Europe and the U.S.

Gatling

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can defend NK with the Il Sung's following in the footsteps of brutal dicators such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin

Take a troll approach don't feed them

Cheerful Spring

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Don't you think America should have stayed out of the European WWII conflict and stuck to just fighting Japan?

As for staying out of Korea do you think the South Koreans would have preferred to live under the Il Sung dynasty?

Your thinking reminds me of people who watch someone being beaten on the street and walk by saying it's not my problem.

I don't know how anyone can defend NK with the Il Sung's following in the footsteps of brutal dicators such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin

NK has experienced sanctions and isolation for years. NK almost overnight lost financial support when the Soviet Union collapsed. If you asked South Korean today of course they pick their homeland best place to live.

What you forget though is
NK in 1950 was wealthy compared to South Korea. If South Korea formed a union with the North, this nonsense would be avoided. America tried this on with Vietnam and eventually they pulled out and communists took over. Do you see communist Vietnam today testing missiles and threatening to wipe out America and it' allies?

archer22

Gatling wrote: »

Totally agree

It's getting late..haven't you got to be up for school in the morning.