US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Divelment

Japan talking of evacuating its citizens from South Korea because they think military action is on the table now...

http://nypost.com/2017/09/04/japan-planning-possible-mass-evacuation-amid-north-korea-threat-report/

archer22

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Pyongyang



























Great skyline. Has potential under the capitalist system.

Beautiful City!...all new buildings, shows the devastation it suffered.

mbur

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Jaysus I wish the North Korean leader would get back in his box and let me get back to worrying about ISIS, Ebola and Zebra Mussels!

Its really not his call. He has the big bomb now. I'll bet it had a made in China sticker on it. Why? Well maybe someone got a bit nervous when Trump got elected and needed a good nuclear proxy to discourage any vote grabbing bravado. I'd say this particular bit of one-upmanship is over. Kim's backers will be sitting back now watching for player two's next move. :cool:

If anyone has a better explanation, well go ahead. Maybe once Trump got in they all got together and decided this was the best way to bump up military spending all round. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

Irish Praetorian

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I started this thread in April and most of the people who have commented support the United States view on this. Only a few people have looked at this as a two side issue. Even you just now can't accept the United States did any wrong and is not at fault.

A cursory look at my posting history will demonstrate my willingness to take issue with US foreign policy, past and present. But the issue here is that this isn't a case of two sides each bringing to the table some interesting points; we have a dictatorial regime wanting to obtain nuclear weapons with a proven track record of causing trouble for its neighbours, and we have those who oppose them (why it gets reduced continually to just the US I find bizzare). This is just the same as those those cranks who deny evolution and suggest a fair balance is 'teaching the controversy' - it just doesn't cut it.

Cheerful Spring

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I understand your fear because the Chinese would prefer to sell their goods to NK instead and they don't care one bit about the amount of money they have invested in Europe and the U.S.

Would you blame them for not wanting to give up on North Korea. Russia learned the hardway you can not trust the American word on things. US officials promised Gorbachev no Nato bases near the Russian border when the Soviet union fell. Now today there is a US base in nearly every Eastern European country. Soon as China gives up NK the Americans will roll in and threaten China, from another direction. Chinese are not stupid the pivot to Asia by Obama was a threat to China security.

Cheerful Spring

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

A cursory look at my posting history will demonstrate my willingness to take issue with US foreign policy, past and present. But the issue here is that this isn't a case of two sides each bringing to the table some interesting points; we have a dictatorial regime wanting to obtain nuclear weapons with a proven track record of causing trouble for its neighbours, and we have those who oppose them (why it gets reduced continually to just the US I find bizzare). This is just the same as those those cranks who deny evolution and suggest a fair balance is 'teaching the controversy' - it just doesn't cut it.

North Korea was relatively peaceful till the point Trump got elected and threatened them on his twitter account. People forget how this all started. I don't agree with Kim either his acting foolish, you got the bomb, chill out. I will not feel sadness if his killed, but a nuclear war is not going to solve this. I also think war exercises only heighten tensions not ease them. Of course i side with America beating North Korea, but you can't ignore the history of the region and how we ended up here now.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Would you blame them for not wanting to give up on North Korea. Russia learned the hardway you can not trust the American word on things. US officials promised Gorbachev no Nato bases near the Russian border when the Soviet union fell. Now today there is a US base in nearly every Eastern European country.

Stop with the lies past rediculous at this point ,

Gorbachev wasn't promised anything by anyone but keep up with the rewrite of history

jimmycrackcorm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

NK has experienced sanctions and isolation for years. NK almost overnight lost financial support when the Soviet Union collapsed. If you asked South Korean today of course they pick their homeland best place to live.

What you forget though is
NK in 1950 was wealthy compared to South Korea. If South Korea formed a union with the North, this nonsense would be avoided. America tried this on with Vietnam and eventually they pulled out and communists took over. Do you see communist Vietnam today testing missiles and threatening to wipe out America and it' allies?

That's patent nonsense. NK is in the position it is because of the style of communism it follows. Ireland was also a poor country in the 1950's.

NK lost it's financial support because the same vein of communism also failed in the USSR. At least China copped on and started to reform. But NK is where it is at because the Il Sungs have not allowed their people to take the same path that either China or Russia has.

Anyway NK will eventually fall into line. Their threat will be from within not from the U.S.

jimmycrackcorm

archer22 wrote: »

Beautiful City!...all new buildings, shows the devastation it suffered.

I think Kim has the answer to Dublin's traffic problems.... Who needs a contentious new bus lane on the quays when you can make sure very few can actually travel.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Stop with the lies past rediculous at this point ,

Gorbachev wasn't promised anything by anyone but keep up with the rewrite of history

Leaders in Moscow, however, tell a different story. For them, Russia is the aggrieved party. They claim the United States has failed to uphold a promise that NATO would not expand into Eastern Europe, a deal made during the 1990 negotiations between the West and the Soviet Union over German unification. In this view, Russia is being forced to forestall NATO’s eastward march as a matter of self-defense.

The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever struck. However, hundreds of memos, meeting minutes and transcripts from U.S. archives indicate otherwise.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html

Irish Praetorian

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

North Korea was relatively peaceful till the point Trump got elected and threatened them on his twitter account. People forget how this all started. I don't agree with Kim either his acting foolish, you got the bomb, chill out. I will not feel sadness if his killed, but a nuclear war is not going to solve this. I also think war exercises only heighten tensions not ease them. Of course i side with America beating North Korea, but you can't ignore the history of the region and how we ended up here now.

Relatively peaceful? Have you been missing the past few years of Korean history? The sinking of the Cheonan? Bombardment of Yeonpyeong? How about the exchange of artillery fire in 2015? You claim to be interested in the history of how we got where we are, but you seem to be relating an account that filters out everything but American actions.

Cheerful Spring

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Relatively peaceful? Have you been missing the past few years of Korean history? The sinking of the Cheonan? Bombardment of Yeonpyeong? How about the exchange of artillery fire in 2015? You claim to be interested in the history of how we got where we are, but you seem to be relating an account that filters out everything but American actions.

Those events have nothing to do with the increased number of North Korean missile tests. Kim father was in charge also.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Leaders in Moscow, however, tell a different story.

Of course they do they lost the Soviet union been crying ever since ,

But alternative history's are some people's specialties

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Of course they do they lost the Soviet union been crying ever since ,

But alternative history's are some people's specialties

I guess you missed the part i highlighted?

The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever struck. However, hundreds of memos, meeting minutes and transcripts from U.S. archives indicate otherwise.

Irish Praetorian

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Those events have nothing to do with the increased number of North Korean missile tests. Kim father was in charge also.

Hang a minute, so you're saying we need to appreciate the history of the conflict, that we should make sure to keep in mind US bombing campaigns from 65 years ago, but actual live fire events in the last 2-7 years are irrelevant??

Cheerful Spring

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Hang a minute, so you're saying we need to appreciate the history of the conflict, that we should make sure to keep in mind US bombing campaigns from 65 years ago, but actual live fire events in the last 2-7 years are irrelevant??

But what this got to with Trump going out of his way to threaten North Korea? You response has no relevance.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I guess you missed the part i highlighted?

The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever stuck.

Yeah no such deal was made ,

Apparently the only deal done was no US troops to be placed in the former East Germany but the Germans gave them permission for american troops to be stationed in sovereign unified Germany ,

The losers alway blame somebody else

Gatling

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Hang a minute, so you're saying we need to appreciate the history of the conflict, that we should make sure to keep in mind US bombing campaigns from 65 years ago, but actual live fire events in the last 2-7 years are irrelevant??

Alternative and selective history unfortunately

Infini

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Those events have nothing to do with the increased number of North Korean missile tests. Kim father was in charge also.

Yeah but Chubby Chops the 3rd is where it really began kicking off. The chenoen and the yeonpenyong bombardment happened when he got into power. He's also the one been pushing HARD lately with the nuke and missile tests. Hes playing a dangerous game one in which might trigger a military response for a change.

The fact that Japan is considering evacuating its people from South Korea should be a proper warning that this is getting to the point of something actually kicking off.

Cheerful Spring

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That's patent nonsense. NK is in the position it is because of the style of communism it follows. Ireland was also a poor country in the 1950's.

NK lost it's financial support because the same vein of communism also failed in the USSR. At least China copped on and started to reform. But NK is where it is at because the Il Sungs have not allowed their people to take the same path that either China or Russia has.

Anyway NK will eventually fall into line. Their threat will be from within not from the U.S.

China and Russia don't have 50,000 American marines stationed on their border. You seem to forget the United States and North Korea never agreed to a peace treaty.

USSR failed not because of communism, it was the isolation and the arms build up the cost was too much to sustain.. China is still communist they only opened their markets for trade and commerce with the west.

NK is in the position it is because of the style of communism? I disagree they are in this position for taking on the United States, a world power that can crush you economically if they dislike you and turn most of the world against you.

Cheerful Spring

Infini wrote: »

Yeah but Chubby Chops the 3rd is where it really began kicking off. The chenoen and the yeonpenyong bombardment happened when he got into power. He's also the one been pushing HARD lately with the nuke and missile tests. Hes playing a dangerous game one in which might trigger a military response for a change.

The fact that Japan is considering evacuating its people from South Korea should be a proper warning that this is getting to the point of something actually kicking off.

Nobody knew who Kim Jong-un was when those incidents happened. Kim came to power in 2013.

Yeonpyeong bombardment was 2010
Chenenan sinking was also in 2010.

jimmycrackcorm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

China and Russia don't have 50,000 American marines stationed on their border. You seem to forget the United States and North Korea never agreed to a peace treaty.

I don't know what the relevance is. NK has a large conventional army.

USSR failed not because of communism, it was the isolation and the arms build up the cost was too much to sustain.. China is still communist they only opened their markets for trade and commerce with the west.

Do you not see the irony of your post that China opened up and NK didn't. The USSR failed because the best their system could come up with is LADA cars. As NK shows, you can spend all your eggs in one basket, the nuclear basket, but you have no eggs left to eat, literally.

NK is in the position it is because of the style of communism? I disagree they are in this position for taking on the United States, a world power that can crush you economically if they dislike you and turn most of the world against you.

How has that worked out for Cuba? Don't forget about the missile crisis, a historic precursor to present events. Alls well when you face a tiger and don't throw stones at it.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

China and Russia don't have 50,000 American marines stationed on their border. You seem to forget the United States and North Korea never agreed to a peace treaty.

23,000 us military personnel in south Korea army ,navy and airforce ,
Feck all marines

North Korea has alot more troops

Kermit.de.frog

South Koreans are wondering why Trump is attacking them. "They worry he's kind of nuts."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-latest-test-north-korea-detonates-its-most-powerful-nuclear-device-yet/2017/09/03/4c5202ea-90b4-11e7-8754-d478688d23b4_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_nkoreatest-850pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.d9e0b585abc5


lol :pac:

archer22

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

South Koreans are wondering why Trump is attacking them. "They worry he's kind of nuts."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-latest-test-north-korea-detonates-its-most-powerful-nuclear-device-yet/2017/09/03/4c5202ea-90b4-11e7-8754-d478688d23b4_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_nkoreatest-850pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.d9e0b585abc5


lol :pac:

The comments underneath are interesting...seems a lot of Americans are worried about him too...they seem to also think he's a bit of a fruit and nut case.

dd972

Kermit.de.frog

North Korea preparing to launch ballistic missile

South Korea has detected signs that the North is preparing another missile launch, the defence ministry said Monday, adding it could involve an intercontinental ballistic missile.

The ministry said signs that North Korea was "preparing for another ballistic missile launch have consistently been detected since Sunday's test", referring to Pyongyang's sixth nuclear test.

South Korea's spy agency reportedly believes the missile will be fired towards the Pacific.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/36954748/s-korea-detects-signs-n-korea-preparing-missile-launch/?cmp=st

Another overflight of Japan would surely be the last straw.

NKOREA STARTS MOVING ICBM FOR POSSIBLE LAUNCH BEFORE SAT.:DAILY

https://heisenbergreport.com/2017/09/04/north-korea-seen-moving-icbm-into-position-for-launch/

BillyBobBS

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

North Korea preparing to launch ballistic missile





https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/36954748/s-korea-detects-signs-n-korea-preparing-missile-launch/?cmp=st

Another overflight of Japan would surely be the last straw.

Kim is an utter fruitcake. Thankfully this is coming to a head now after years of pathetic "leadership" from talk show Obama. America finally has a president who walks the walk.

ChikiChiki

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Kim is an utter fruitcake. Thankfully this is coming to a head now after years of pathetic "leadership" from talk show Obama. America finally has a president who walks the walk.

Americas president is as nutty as Kim. Thats whats worrying.

gitzy16v

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Americas president is as nutty as Kim. Thats whats worrying.

Is Trump firing missiles all over the place?
Is he testing out nuclear weapons?

Hope you get loads of thanks for your post!

Sick to death of this 50 odd year problem being associated with trump.

Edit: Its getting silly that everything the US does these days is Trumps fault when in reality the United States has been carrying on like this for as long as most of us can remember.....Its a US policy not a trump policy.
If there is anybody to blame its Kim Jong Un not fcuking trump....and Im a big opponent of Americas interference in world affairs.