strange anti-cycling posters up in Howth

magicbastarder

yep, reality does not matter if i find it disagreeable.

Chips Lovell

If you're new to the forum, please read the charter before posting.

Thanks

Mercian Pro

OleRodrigo wrote: »

The main issue is that residents coming out of side streets, crossing the road in the village, coming out of the church etc etc..find it hard to spot a descending cyclist until its too late. You look, don't see anything, make your move and then suddenly there's a cyclist on top of you.

Its much easier to see a car, so coming down the hill on the bike you should expect people may not see you. Its a fair compromise between residents and cyclists out to enjoy the area, to keep speeds at a rate everyone can manage.

Fast descending ( 45 kmph + ) in the village is a technical skill that, IMHO , most riders don't have.

Following my own serious collision with a car when descending into the village in February 2016, I was helped by the local pharmacist who also provided a rug to cover me while I waited for an ambulance. She explained that she kept the rug in a bag beside the door as it was regularly used following crashes involving cyclists. I know this is anecdotal but getting accurate information on crash locations is quite difficult.
I subsequently contacted Fingal County Council suggesting warning signs for both cyclists and motorists and was informed that it had been assigned to an engineer and they would let me know the outcome of her report. I never heard back from them and, afaik, nothing was done.
In my case, there was a further critical factor in that the driver coming up the hill and wishing to turn right at the church was blinded by the sun. I had braked, saw her stop on her side of the road and eased off the brakes. As I picked up speed she stupidly took a chance and crossed directly in front of me. The blame for the collision was entirely her's (confirmed by the Gardaí and her insurance company) but the force of the impact was affected by how quickly I picked up speed because of the gradient.
I still enjoy a fast controlled descent on a safe road as much as anyone but, as OleRodrigo has pointed out, Thormanby Road is not the place to go to practice your descending or to get an adrenaline rush.

Tenzor07

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I subsequently contacted Fingal County Council suggesting warning signs for both cyclists and motorists and was informed that it had been assigned to an engineer and they would let me know the outcome of her report. I never heard back from them and, afaik, nothing was done..

And Nothing will be done either, the council couldn't be bothered i'd say.. either that or local residents would object!

Weepsie

There are apparently Major Roadworks taking place in Howth this Thursday I think. There was a display down near the village as you go past the church

Mercian Pro

Tenzor07 wrote: »

And Nothing will be done either, the council couldn't be bothered i'd say.. either that or local residents would object!

Sent them a reminder yesterday prompted by this thread.

Weepsie wrote: »

There are apparently Major Roadworks taking place in Howth this Thursday I think. There was a display down near the village as you go past the church

That was fast, fair play to them.

Chuchote

Incidentally, someone has painted "no cycling" images of the outline of a bicycle in blue, with a red "No" circle and band over it, at the Herbert Park Hotel exit of Herbert Park.

It doesn't look like an official job - it looks like another Howth effort.

jon1981

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I still enjoy a fast controlled descent on a safe road as much as anyone but, as OleRodrigo has pointed out, Thormanby Road is not the place to go to practice your descending or to get an adrenaline rush.

I agree, anyone descending over 40kph on the section leading into the village needs their head examined. I regularly train around Howth, too many potential hazards around that village.

Tenzor07

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Sent them a reminder yesterday prompted by this thread.

Well, best of luck with it, not like they haven't know about this road being badly designed like that for years now...

Kaisr Sose

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In fairness he (Janos Kohler) is a specialist descender. His bike is also designed for descending at speed with twin front forks on each side. He averaged more than 70km/h on that descent and probably maxed at 100km/h which is unbelievable given the poor quality of the road surface.

(He's also a Boardsie!)

Great vid! Great handling. Brave going over the cattle grids at speed. Once coming down from Kuthai in Austria at about 80km I nearly lost it on a cattle grid I was not expecting. I won't forget the heart beats after that...!

Back on topic. I was saddened to read about the posters. I have only been up/down Howth once in years but to those that do it regular, there is no point in pushing it. Enniskerry is probably the closest to this near me and it's just too unpredictable to go down Main Street at speed. At least there seems to be no anti cycling clan there.

Yourself isit

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If this is the level of posting in here then it's not surprising that a certain type of lyrca clad cyclist is largely disliked in Ireland.

The cyclist was going too fast to stop through the village. He flew through the pedestrian lights at the church. Pedantry about speed limits aside, it would have been dangerous were it not so early.

magicbastarder

quote mining much?

Chuchote

Is there a point in what the villagers say - leaving aside the fume-spewing logjam that is Howth weekend traffic - in that speed should be moderated according to surroundings, and a village isn't a place to whizz through?

I'm asking from a lack of knowledge here - I don't know if cyclists do go fast through the village.

morana

Yourself isit wrote: »

If this is the level of posting in here then it's not surprising that a certain type of lyrca clad cyclist is largely disliked in Ireland.

The cyclist was going too fast to stop through the village. He flew through the pedestrian lights at the church. Pedantry about speed limits aside, it would have been dangerous were it not so early.

from where he started filming to where he stopped is about 1.2 km and it took him 1 min 56 thats an average speed of ~30-ish kph which is hardly excessive.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

a village isn't a place to whizz through?

as i've mentioned before, i've never descended that route. once you climb to the top, you want an enjoyable descent where you're not constantly feathering the brakes. the descent through the village is not the place to open up the taps.

Weepsie

Yourself isit wrote: »

If this is the level of posting in here then it's not surprising that a certain type of lyrca clad cyclist is largely disliked in Ireland.

The cyclist was going too fast to stop through the village. He flew through the pedestrian lights at the church. Pedantry about speed limits aside, it would have been dangerous were it not so early.

Are you watching on double speed or something? The cyclist is going quite fast on some sections, but around some of the bends and through the village he is clearly slowing down and in full control. He's also frequently checking his shoulder. The lights were also green.

You can't possibly discern that it how early, or too early from that video unless you can tell time from the position of the sun, and if so kudos

I'll hold my hand up and said I've once gone down into the village too fast, and won't be doing it again as I like my life very much and prefer descending the other direction

brocbrocach

Chuchote wrote: »

Is there a point in what the villagers say - leaving aside the fume-spewing logjam that is Howth weekend traffic - in that speed should be moderated according to surroundings, and a village isn't a place to whizz through?

I'm asking from a lack of knowledge here - I don't know if cyclists do go fast through the village.

Who are "the villagers" being spoken for here though? Is it really anything apart from a few cranks, the usual clowns who don't like "them".
Honestly it's probably some Hooray Henry and his bored mates who likes his summit to himself. The silly posters aren't about the village or anything like that - they're calling for the bikes to get out of the way so the cars (4 abreast begor!) behind them can go faster! The viewpoint is actually probably more appropriate to the rest of North County Dublin than it is to Howth where the big hill is.
This other chap who's posting just doesn't like cyclists and is jumping on the bandwagon, lycra doesn't do it for him or something.

buffalo

brocbrocach wrote: »

(4 abreast begor!)

They're 8 abreast at the back.

Chuchote

brocbrocach wrote: »

Who are "the villagers" being spoken for here though? Is it really anything apart from a few cranks, the usual clowns who don't like "them".
Honestly it's probably some Hooray Henry and his bored mates who likes his summit to himself.

Maybe - but to be a devil's advocate here, it may also be people who are worried about the very elderly population hobbling along, or kids running around. There are places for fast cycling, and places for slow cycling.

DirkVoodoo

Chuchote wrote: »

Maybe - but to be a devil's advocate here, it may also be people who are worried about the very elderly population hobbling along, or kids running around. There are places for fast cycling, and places for slow cycling.

I think the speeding cars represent more danger to the children and the elderly. I've seen more poor driving out that way than poor cycling.

Slightly OT but I see a 46% increase in driving under influence this BH weekend over last year. Again we know what causes carnage on the roads but people get more worked up about this. It's mad.

A car does 50 through howth and no one bats an eyelid. A bike dies the same and suddenly it's the elderly and children are afraid to cross the street??

Tenzor07

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

A car does 50 through howth and no one bats an eyelid. A bike does the same and suddenly it's the elderly and children are afraid to cross the street??

It's a (psychological) perception issue in that a lot of the road going public see roads as not being for Bicyclists, they are "not entitled" to use the roads, for many reasons(excuses) e.g. "they" don't pay road tax/insurance/licence plates..


Interesting article here on the subject..things are always much worse somewhere else: https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/legislate-to-end-war-on-cyclists-ng-b88447769z

hesker

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Interesting article here on the subject..things are always much worse somewhere else: https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/legislate-to-end-war-on-cyclists-ng-b88447769z

Is it really that different. I've been screamed at for no reason and regularly have cars cutting me off at speed at one particular junction. Haven't had anything thrown at me yet.

I do meet with a good deal of courtesy on a fairly regular basis also but the mentality of some is not far from that article.

Tenzor07

hesker wrote: »

Is it really that different. I've been screamed at for no reason and regularly have cars cutting me off at speed at one particular junction. Haven't had anything thrown at me yet..

These posters whilst upon first glance maybe appear colorful and vaguely "humorous" are gateways into normalisation of the abuse of other road users, where the more feeble minded motor vehicle driver or passenger(s) view more vulnerable road users as "fair game".

One day posters, next day a bottle thrown from a car at the bicyclist...

Mercian Pro

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I think the speeding cars represent more danger to the children and the elderly.

A car does 50 through howth and no one bats an eyelid. A bike dies the same and suddenly it's the elderly and children are afraid to cross the street??

Fully agree with your first point.

On the second, I'm just wondering why anyone would want to cycle through Howth Village at 50kph. If it's to practice downhill racing technique, I'm sure there are plenty of better locations. If it's to experience the adrenaline rush, how much of that is generated by the danger? Whatever about the danger to others, a cyclist having to swerve suddenly at 50kph is a lot more likely to end up injured than a motorist doing the same thing.

Tenzor07

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Whatever about the danger to others, a cyclist having to swerve suddenly at 50kph is a lot more likely to end up injured than a motorist doing the same thing.

You make it sound like Cyclists are out of control!?

I believe people have an innate sense of self preservation so best to leave that to them?

Tombo2001

daragh_ wrote: »

The sheer crapness of the posters aside - Howth is pretty clogged up of a weekend with cyclists of all types.

I've never really understood the appeal tbh. If it's on your doorstep fair enough but for me heading out that way on a training spin always seemed pointless - far too much hassle stopping and starting, negotiating traffic etc.

its a funny attitude.

Clogged up with cyclists and not with cars?

The appeal is that its the only decent hill in Dublin.

Quite clearly.

07Lapierre

"In my youth" I used to love descending through Howth village. That's over 20 years ago now, but even then, i was always prepared for cars and or Pedestrians to do something unexpected. On quite a few occasions I had cars cross my path and I was able to slow enough to allow them to complete the manover.

Ever since the traffic lights were installed at the junction as you descend towards the village (right on a bend too) I've no interest in this descent.

buffalo

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Fully agree with your first point.

On the second, I'm just wondering why anyone would want to cycle through Howth Village at 50kph. If it's to practice downhill racing technique, I'm sure there are plenty of better locations. If it's to experience the adrenaline rush, how much of that is generated by the danger? Whatever about the danger to others, a cyclist having to swerve suddenly at 50kph is a lot more likely to end up injured than a motorist doing the same thing.

To get to the bottom faster? I don't tend to cycle on the flat at 5kph, even though that's demonstratively safer than 30kph. When I'm leaving the summit, I descend as fast as I think is safe enough - that's 50kph some days, 30kph under other circumstances.

Many cyclists are just travelling, not on some hopped up joyride.

ted1

Tombo2001 wrote: »

its a funny attitude.

Clogged up with cyclists and not with cars?

The appeal is that its the only decent hill in Dublin.

Quite clearly.

*in North Dublin

Tombo2001

ted1 wrote: »

*in North Dublin

Fair dinks.

The people in the Naul might also have in an issue.