strange anti-cycling posters up in Howth

morana

thejaguar wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm the same - I was just wondering who could actually stop first. I think some people (me included I think) feel safer with a car coming towards them - because they are more used to it perhaps.

I get the multiple factors that come into play - including which I'd prefer to be hit by.

the bike 44cm at its widest or the car at 2 meters wide. I think i would pick the bike all day long

Tenzor07

Weepsie wrote: »

You're comparing apples and oranges though. I'd be confident the brakes I have on my bike are maintained well enough that the child need not worry. * Except my cx bike, they're completely shot at the moment

Isn't this the way parents bring their kids around Howth these days? :pac:

Arequipa

I think we both have to share the road...
You are right...strictly speaking Howth is not a cup de sac...but there is essentially a bottle neck created as most people drive in from Baldoyle/the coast road and then can either continue straight to the Harbour or up by the graveyard..

I think we have an opportunity to be just be nice and rise above the anti-cycling , anti - motorist arguments..
We all want to safely enjoy the fantastic resource and scenery around Howth..

Cycling with common sense and good manners will keep us safer and make motorists and locals more relaxed and welcoming..

i think cycling 2 abreast around Howth in busy periods, while within the law is just pissing drivers off...
just single out and let them pass.
We are all human...we are all just trying to get where we wanna go and enjoy our lives..


And as regards descending... arguments about who can stop quicker...conditions etc.... All that matters is that we slow way down coming through the village and by the graveyard... it is not an Alpine descent...we should be going at a speed, where if a pedestrian/child/dog runs across the road or a tourist just doesn't look the right way...that we can break and stop comfortably...
Those of us who have young kids, elderly parents or grandparents can appreciate that they cannot react as quickly and should feel safe and comfortable...

Also it is a big tourist destination and many foreign people walk around carefree and oblivious ...they are just relaxing and taking in the scenery...I think we should respect this and be prepared to stop at all times...


A

Chips Lovell

Singling out to let cars pass if it's safe to do so is good manners and good practice.

Singling out regardless of conditions just because you're worried about annoying motorists is potentially dangerous.

Tenzor07

Arequipa wrote: »

I think we have an opportunity to be just be nice and rise above the anti-cycling , anti - motorist arguments..
We all want to safely enjoy the fantastic resource and scenery around Howth..

Firstly, who's this "We?"

Cycling two abreast is legal, proven safer and on the main road around Howth there are places/room for a motor vehicle to pass with sufficient room..

buffalo

Moflojo wrote: »

(@buffalo I stole your map graphic - what is the source for it? It's a very clear graphic.)

http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#11/-6.33842/53.35629/blue/bike

Weepsie

Arequipa wrote: »

Cycling with common sense and good manners will keep us safer and make motorists and locals more relaxed and welcoming..

It's a two way street though. We could just as easily say driving with common sense ....Etc. too often i am seeing a complete lack of common sense from road users of all forms, but it's those in the 3 tonnes of metal of are more likely to kill or maim due to said lack of basic impatience

07Lapierre

Arequipa wrote: »

And as regards descending... arguments about who can stop quicker...conditions etc.... All that matters is that we slow way down coming through the village and by the graveyard... it is not an Alpine descent...we should be going at a speed, where if a pedestrian/child/dog runs across the road or a tourist just doesn't look the right way...that we can break and stop comfortably...


A

But, but does common sense not dictate that pedestrian/tourists exercise at least a basic level of responsibility? i.e. the safe cross code?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIluoGcCKNg

ford2600

07Lapierre wrote: »

Also, most cars are fitted with ABS brakes which actually INCREASE braking distances, as it's intended to assist a driver to steer while braking. So cars are designed to overtake/pass obstacles, which is not possible most of the time!

MaxImum friction between tyre and the road surface occurs just before lock up. ABS is designed to keep the friction force in this sweet spot.

This allows a little wheel rotation, hence limited steering is still available.

An experienced bike rider or cyclist, using both front and rear brakes will out brake most cars.

Away from friction and disc/rims etc, anticipation/experience/awareness are bigger factors in avoiding accidents. No point having the braking power of a Brabus if there is an oblivious muppet behind the wheel.

07Lapierre

ford2600 wrote: »

MaxImum friction between tyre and the road surface occurs just before lock up. ABS is designed to keep the friction force in this sweet spot.

This allows a little wheel rotation, hence limited steering is still available.

An experienced bike rider or cyclist, using both front and rear brakes will out brake most cars.

Away from friction and disc/rims etc, anticipation/experience/awareness are bigger factors in avoiding accidents. No point having the braking power of a Brabus if there is an oblivious muppet behind the wheel.

Absolutely...or a muppet on a bike too!

Leroy42

It is a bit of a myth that cycling two a breast creates more problems that single file. It is very rare that two or more riders would cycle direcly in line, so in practice you will always have more than the space of 1. A bike takes up .5 meters (I'm guessing) and another .5m from the kerb, lets round to 1m. And at 50km the space given should be +1.5m, so that is 2.5m of the road.

Average car width is 2m. So no way they can really pass safely without either crossing the line (average lane is about 4m) or squeeze by. The second rider (now cycling abreast) doesn't have any real impact other than to take away the perception that the car can get through.

07Lapierre

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is a bit of a myth that cycling two a breast creates more problems that single file. It is very rare that two or more riders would cycle direcly in line, so in practice you will always have more than the space of 1. A bike takes up .5 meters (I'm guessing) and another .5m from the kerb, lets round to 1m. And at 50km the space given should be +1.5m, so that is 2.5m of the road.

Average car width is 2m. So no way they can really pass safely without either crossing the line (average lane is about 4m) or squeeze by. The second rider (now cycling abreast) doesn't have any real impact other than to take away the perception that the car can get through.

Another factor is the width of a cyclist hasn't changed. The width of most of our roads haven't changed either, whereas modern cars are a lot bigger/wider than older cars (60's and 70's). There's more traffic (bikes and cars) too.

Moflojo

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is a bit of a myth that cycling two a breast creates more problems that single file. It is very rare that two or more riders would cycle direcly in line, so in practice you will always have more than the space of 1. A bike takes up .5 meters (I'm guessing) and another .5m from the kerb, lets round to 1m. And at 50km the space given should be +1.5m, so that is 2.5m of the road.

Average car width is 2m. So no way they can really pass safely without either crossing the line (average lane is about 4m) or squeeze by. The second rider (now cycling abreast) doesn't have any real impact other than to take away the perception that the car can get through.

Here's a visualisation of exactly what you're saying:

Chips Lovell

There's a constituency of motorists who think groups ride two abreast because they're being selfish and/or dicks. They've no idea for the reasons behind it.

magicbastarder

someone needs to print out that image above and plaster it around howth.

OleRodrigo

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is a bit of a myth that cycling two a breast creates more problems that single file. It is very rare that two or more riders would cycle direcly in line, so in practice you will always have more than the space of 1. A bike takes up .5 meters (I'm guessing) and another .5m from the kerb, lets round to 1m. And at 50km the space given should be +1.5m, so that is 2.5m of the road.

Average car width is 2m. So no way they can really pass safely without either crossing the line (average lane is about 4m) or squeeze by. The second rider (now cycling abreast) doesn't have any real impact other than to take away the perception that the car can get through.

Nothing wrong with a car squeezing by on a hill, safely and slowly.

If not they could be there all day, given the narrow nature of roads in hilly areas.

Last week going past djeuce this very thing unfolded - a car waiting patiently behind me to overtake. When there was an opportunity, a pair of cyclists descending from the Gap came in the opposite direction and got on their high horse, tut tutting and shaking their fists that the car was overtaking while they were coming down.

If they had of slowed their descent, there would have been no problem and everyone could have gotten along. If they had read the situation properly, they would have seen the car was making every effort to maneuver safely, and they could have responded in kind.

On crowed routes, the only sensible option is give and take.

Chips Lovell

You'd fail if you did that in a driving test. You should only overtake if the way is clear. Expecting oncoming traffic to slow and yield to you is incredibly dangerous.

OleRodrigo

The way was clear when the overtake began. As it was on a hill with cars parked on either side, it took longer than it normally would have. Descending cyclists should expect this and ' proceed with caution ' .

Chips Lovell

If you're encountering oncoming traffic before the overtaking manoeuvre is complete, then the way wasn't clear.

AndrewJRenko

OleRodrigo wrote: »

The way was clear when the overtake began.

You know that's not how overtaking works, right?

Lumen

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

You'd fail if you did that in a driving test. You should only overtake if the way is clear.

Not quite. You should only overtake if they way is clear and is likely to remain so.

Hence why you're prohibited (usually by hatched lines if not common sense) from overtaking near a junction.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

Not quite. You should only overtake if they way is clear and is likely to remain so.

Hence why you're prohibited (usually by hatched lines if not common sense) from overtaking near a junction.

You know what I mean!

Chuchote

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Nothing wrong with a car squeezing by on a hill, safely and slowly.

Depends on the hill.

In the ongoing description preceding there's a reference to "cars parked on either side". Surely that was the problem.

OleRodrigo

Chuchote wrote: »

Depends on the hill.

In the ongoing description preceding there's a reference to "cars parked on either side". Surely that was the problem.

Yes and no. In that instance they were parked for the entrance to the Wicklow Way on a busy day - much like the cemetery at Sutton and church at Howth. There's not much can be done, either way, except for some common sense give and take.

Not something that High Horse Harry and his band of whingers were prepared to do!

morana

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Not something that High Horse Harry and his band of whingers were prepared to do!

who is high horse harry? Was he the driver or the descender?

Chuchote

morana wrote: »

who is high horse harry? Was he the driver or the descender?

If the descender wouldn't he be Low Horse Harry?

Lusk_Doyle

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

You'd fail if you did that in a driving test. You should only overtake if the way is clear. Expecting oncoming traffic to slow and yield to you is incredibly dangerous.

It's expected by other drivers in Poland. The amount of times I've been faced with a "chicken" decision over there is ridiculous.

daragh_

Tombo2001 wrote: »

its a funny attitude.

Clogged up with cyclists and not with cars?

The appeal is that its the only decent hill in Dublin.

Quite clearly.

No it's not. Happy to show you some.

Luxman

Howth was chock full of cyclists today. Best response to those posters

07Lapierre

I went over Howth head on Friday evening.. have to put my hand up and say I descended thru Howth village at 50+kph. Weather was dry, visibility was good and no incidents. Just as well there was a headwind slowing me down!