BANGERNOMICS (sub2k) of the week/day

54and56

colm_mcm wrote: »

One for the brave perhaps, but if it made it this far...
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/08-citroen-c5-1-6-hdi/16002563

Mileage is pretty heavy. Looks good but €2,250 for a 1.6D manual????

BOBIDGE

In Bill I trust!

Honda Civic. Looks clean enough, a few dings to contend with.

I do c.20,000 miles a year, mixed driving. I may take a look. Really would prefer a non diesel but would ideally go for an automatic. Any opinions appreciated!

http://m.billgriffinmotors.ie/photos.php?ad_id=1766236

CiDeRmAn

It's been asked before, but is that 1.6 a poor engine?
Are there gearbox/DMF issues with them?

grogi

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

It's been asked before, but is that 1.6 a poor engine?
Are there gearbox/DMF issues with them?

There are a few issues with it, that would manifest when it wasn't serviced as it should.

In short: in that engine the oil has a tendency to thicken when the injector seals get loose and carbon gets into oil. That leads to the turbo oil feed pipes to clog and starve the turbo. Very few mechanics check if the seals are screwed properly during the servicing - it is few minutes additional work with one allen key, 10 IIRC. The seals were much improved when 8V version was introduced, around 2012/2013...

DPF is problemless, but in majority of the cars it needs Eolys additive.

boardsuser1

BOBIDGE wrote: »

In Bill I trust!

Honda Civic. Looks clean enough, a few dings to contend with.

I do c.20,000 miles a year, mixed driving. I may take a look. Really would prefer a non diesel but would ideally go for an automatic. Any opinions appreciated!

http://m.billgriffinmotors.ie/photos.php?ad_id=1766236

The neighbour bought one of these in an auto version in 2007, he has the hybrid version, 1.6 i think.

He still has it 10 years on.

They don't appear to be the worst car out there, however the interior reminds me of the final generation Nissan Primera.

grogi

KC161 wrote: »

The neighbour bought one of these in an auto version in 2007, he has the hybrid version, 1.6 i think.

He still has it 10 years on.

They don't appear to be the worst car out there, however the interior reminds me of the final generation Nissan Primera.

Hybrid is 1.3.

boardsuser1

grogi wrote: »

Hybrid is 1.3.

typo

Muckie

BOBIDGE wrote: »

In Bill I trust!

Would definitely not trust Bill, he wont budge on the price, no haggling allowed!

Also they'll try and get you to sign a disclaimer - in case the car has any issues once it leaves the lot, its your baby!

Trusting Bill could break your heart and your wallet.

BOBIDGE

Muckie wrote: »

BOBIDGE wrote: »

In Bill I trust!

Would definitely not trust Bill, he wont budge on the price, no haggling allowed!

Also they'll try and get you to sign a disclaimer - in case the car has any issues once it leaves the lot, its your baby!

Trusting Bill could break your heart and your wallet.

Once you treat it like a private sale I cannot see any issues. Eyes wide open as ever though!

bazz26

Why bother buying from a dealer then?

Muckie

bazz26 wrote: »

Why bother buying from a dealer then?

Exactly what i thought when i visited them recently.

Put me right off buying from them, if they refuse to stand over what there selling!

You might as well go with donedeal purchase and meet a chap in an Aldi carpark!

grogi

Muckie wrote: »

Exactly what i thought when i visited them recently.

Put me right off buying from them, if they refuse to stand over what there selling!

You might as well go with donedeal purchase and meet a chap in an Aldi carpark!

But you will need 20 different chaps to view 20 cars thought...

bazz26

Cheap dependable Corolla with a year's test for under €1600:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2004-toyota-corolla-1-4-just-ncted/15647918

yobr

bazz26 wrote: »

Cheap dependable Corolla with a year's test for under €1600:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2004-toyota-corolla-1-4-just-ncted/15647918

Is it just me but is €1,600 a lot of money for a 13 year old car? Appreciate you would pick it up for less though.

Gravelly

Muckie wrote: »

BOBIDGE wrote: »

In Bill I trust!

Would definitely not trust Bill, he wont budge on the price, no haggling allowed!

Also they'll try and get you to sign a disclaimer - in case the car has any issues once it leaves the lot, its your baby!

Trusting Bill could break your heart and your wallet.

Would I be right in saying that the disclaimer means nothing? As far as I'm aware, when a dealer sells a car, he is bound by the same consumer laws no matter what he gets you to sign. If a dealer did ask me to sign a disclaimer, I'd be inclined to assume he's selling me a lemon though.

eamonnq

Muckie wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that the disclaimer means nothing? As far as I'm aware, when a dealer sells a car, he is bound by the same consumer laws no matter what he gets you to sign. If a dealer did ask me to sign a disclaimer, I'd be inclined to assume he's selling me a lemon though.

and if that is correct, how is he allowed to continue getting people to sign these disclaimers ?

Gravelly

eamonnq wrote: »

and if that is correct, how is he allowed to continue getting people to sign these disclaimers ?

I presume he's getting away with it because gullible people are assuming they haven't a leg to stand on if and when they're new purchase dies on the way home. There probably isn't any law against asking someone to sign it, it just doesn't have any legal standing.

grogi

Gravelly wrote: »

Muckie wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that the disclaimer means nothing? As far as I'm aware, when a dealer sells a car, he is bound by the same consumer laws no matter what he gets you to sign. If a dealer did ask me to sign a disclaimer, I'd be inclined to assume he's selling me a lemon though.

No, you are not right.

The responsibility of the dealer can be reduced if the buyer agrees to that and the agreement is in writing.

beauf

yobr wrote: »

Is it just me but is €1,600 a lot of money for a 13 year old car? Appreciate you would pick it up for less though.

I think you have to consider the total cost of ownership and running costs say for the next 2yrs and 20k. Etc.

Gravelly

grogi wrote: »

No, you are not right.

The responsibility of the dealer can be reduced if the buyer agrees to that and the agreement is in writing.

Would be interested in seeing the actual consumer law that says so. I've never seen an opt out clause in Irish consumer law - do you have a link to it?

grogi

Gravelly wrote: »

Would be interested in seeing the actual consumer law that says so. I've never seen an opt out clause in Irish consumer law - do you have a link to it?

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980
Section 13 (2) says about the warranty given by the dealer, 13 (3) specifies that the dealer might not give it under particular circumstances.

(2) Without prejudice to any other condition or warranty, in every contract for the sale of a motor vehicle (except a contract in which the buyer is a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) there is an implied condition that at the time of delivery of the vehicle under the contract it is free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.

3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—

(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and

(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and

(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.

Gravelly

grogi wrote: »

Would be interested in seeing the actual consumer law that says so. I've never seen an opt out clause in Irish consumer law - do you have a link to it?

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980
Section 13 (3).[/QUOTE]


Hmmm - interesting. So he can get someone to sign a document saying the car is not fit to drive in the condition it is in, and then watch them drive it out the gate! Wonder how insurance cover would work in that case?

eamonnq

Gravelly wrote: »

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980
Section 13 (3).


Hmmm - interesting. So he can get someone to sign a document saying the car is not fit to drive in the condition it is in, and then watch them drive it out the gate! Wonder how insurance cover would work in that case?

I think 'free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.' would not include the vehicle breaking down.

Gravelly

eamonnq wrote: »

I think 'free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.' would not include the vehicle breaking down.

What I'm wondering is, in the case where I agree that my car is not fit for service, would that be an easy opt-out for my insurance company in the event of an accident.

grogi

Gravelly wrote: »

What I'm wondering is, in the case where I agree that my car is not fit for service, would that be an easy opt-out for my insurance company in the event of an accident.

Do you really need to ask? It would be negligence on your side...

Nevertheless there is also a precedent when a dealer allowed a customer to drive off in a car like that who had an accident shortly after. The dealer was found guilty of something too...

Gravelly

grogi wrote: »

Do you really need to ask? It would be negligence on your side...

Nevertheless there is also a precedent when a dealer allowed a customer to drive off in a car like that who had an accident shortly after. The dealer was found guilty of something too...

I didn't really need to ask, no! I'd imagine the dealer could very well be legally held to account, bringing me back to my original point that these waivers are probably not worth the paper they are written on, and are just to scare the gullible into not pursuing action in the event of a defect.

ohnonotgmail

grogi wrote: »

Do you really need to ask? It would be negligence on your side...

Nevertheless there is also a precedent when a dealer allowed a customer to drive off in a car like that who had an accident shortly after. The dealer was found guilty of something too...

Gravelly wrote: »

I didn't really need to ask, no! I'd imagine the dealer could very well be legally held to account, bringing me back to my original point that these waivers are probably not worth the paper they are written on, and are just to scare the gullible into not pursuing action in the event of a defect.

you need to read the act very carefully

(2) Without prejudice to any other condition or warranty, in every contract for the sale of a motor vehicle (except a contract in which the buyer is a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) there is an implied condition that at the time of delivery of the vehicle under the contract it is free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.

3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—

(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and

(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and

(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.

Unless the disclaimer says something to the effect of "you should not use this vehicle until issues x,y and z are resolved" then the disclaimer is worthless. A blanket disclaimer saying dealer is not responsible for any problems that may occur is not valid.

Gravelly

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you need to read the act very carefully



Unless the disclaimer says something to the effect of "you should not use this vehicle until issues x,y and z are resolved" then the disclaimer is worthless. A blanket disclaimer saying dealer is not responsible for any problems that may occur is not valid.

Exactly what I was thinking too.

Bahanaman

Muckie wrote:

You might as well go with donedeal purchase and meet a chap in an Aldi carpark!

That's exactly how I sold my Alhambra a couple of years ago!!😅

grogi

Gravelly wrote: »

I didn't really need to ask, no! I'd imagine the dealer could very well be legally held to account, bringing me back to my original point that these waivers are probably not worth the paper they are written on, and are just to scare the gullible into not pursuing action in the event of a defect.

The issue you are asking is outside of the consumer protection. The Insurance will use any excuse not to pay.

If the Insurance company has in writing that you knew the car was not roadworthy and you cannot prove that any repair or inspection was done to verify it is indeed roadworthy, they will hold you liable for the insurance purposes.