Politics Cafe: Restrictive definition of 'on-topic', and associated mod warnings

Chorus_suck

This post has been deleted.

Tokyo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This, in my opinion, is what each and every person posting in the last few feedback threads should ask themselves before posting a response. In the ideal world, we could do the above, and mod intervention would be minimal to non existent. However, mod intervention, rightly or wrongly as you see those mod actions to be, are a direct reflection of the style of posting that goes on in that forum. What's all too easily glossed over in these threads is that there is a fundamental issue at the poster level too, that also needs to be seriously and critically addressed.

_Kaiser_

mike_ie wrote: »

This, in my opinion, is what each and every person posting in the last few feedback threads should ask themselves before posting a response. In the ideal world, we could do the above, and mod intervention would be minimal to non existent. However, mod intervention, rightly or wrongly as you see those mod actions to be, are a direct reflection of the style of posting that goes on in that forum. What's all too easily glossed over in these threads is that there is a fundamental issue at the poster level too, that also needs to be seriously and critically addressed.

To be fair, I don't think anyone disagrees with that - there are definitely a small group of users/posters who can make the place hell at times.

The issue with moderation isn't that actions are taken but that actions are taken inconsistently and with (apparent) bias in some cases.. why some posters are sanctioned but not others (including mods posting their personal views) for the same things etc (as Alf referred to previously)

But yes, absolutely it has to start with the poster and their contributions, but so long as the rules/boundaries are clear and mod actions are fair and impartial/universal, then I doubt any reasonable person (regardless of their status/role on the site) could have a problem with it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Lovely Bloke

Teresa May being referred to as a "witch" with impunity today.

Some Feedback about that. It shouldn't be allowed.

ancapailldorcha

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

Teresa May being referred to as a "witch" with impunity today.

Some Feedback about that. It shouldn't be allowed.

Did you report the posts?

dudara

Lovely Bloke was the only poster to report such comments (that I can see), he did so at 19.55 just before he posted here.

Lovely Bloke

when I saw the most recent one, yes.

But still, the hot topic of the day was the woman announcing the GE in the UK, it's not unreasonable to assume that at least one of the moderators saw those posts, and decided not to act.

_Kaiser_

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm afraid I still disagree. I think the Cafe has a very valid place as a more accessible way for "average Joe" to discuss political issues. I'll again state that this isn't about one or the other - and nor should it be allowed to become about that to be honest.

If Politics was fitting the needs of the many then it'd be just as active, as there are many well informed people who post in the Cafe in a very positive and constructive manner. Again I don't think this should become an opportunity to "grab" those users for Politics, and I'd echo the comment earlier that attempts to do this by merging the forums (again) would leave us back where we were at the start - with more politically-themed threads in AH (that aren't "fit" for Politics), and/or people going elsewhere.. something to be avoided in an era where forums generally are falling out of favour.

Also while we all agree that there are serious issues with the Cafe as it is, let's not overstate it either. While there are significant headaches caused by several "problem" users, it's almost always the SAME users. Deal with those and the problems go away or significantly reduce... which can also be done within the existing framework of Boards moderation too.

Phoebas

The problem with Politics Café isn't poor moderation or too much moderation; the problem is that too many threads there routinely descend into bad tempered bickering. At the end if the day, this is down to the users who post there.

I'd be in favour of merging it with the main politics forum. I think boards would take a hit in the short term in terms of overall volume of content, but I also think merging the forums would reenergise the main politics forum and this would attract new posters who currently avoid Politics Café like the plague.

I know some people say they like the 'light hearted' nature of the Café, but I've personally never found it to be light hearted at all.

dudara

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

when I saw the most recent one, yes.

But still, the hot topic of the day was the woman announcing the GE in the UK, it's not unreasonable to assume that at least one of the moderators saw those posts, and decided not to act.

While I'd like to think that mods did see, it's possible they didn't, and I definitely wouldn't assume it. (Working during the day etc). This is a great example of why we need users to report posts. Thank you for reporting it.

B_Wayne

I honestly think it would be best to shutdown the politics Cafe... It's invariably disturbing in terms of behaviour of some posters. There's nothing light hearted about it.

Yourself isit

B_Wayne wrote: »

I honestly think it would be best to shutdown the politics Cafe... It's invariably disturbing in terms of behaviour of some posters. There's nothing light hearted about it.

I've just read the thread on the UK election. Perfectly fine. Good arguments on all sides. One guy called May a witch and was infracted. What is disturbing?

RDM_83 again

Phoebas wrote: »

The problem with Politics Café isn't poor moderation or too much moderation; the problem is that too many threads there routinely descend into bad tempered bickering. At the end if the day, this is down to the users who post there.

I'd be in favour of merging it with the main politics forum. I think boards would take a hit in the short term in terms of overall volume of content, but I also think merging the forums would reenergise the main politics forum and this would attract new posters who currently avoid Politics Café like the plague.

I know some people say they like the 'light hearted' nature of the Café, but I've personally never found it to be light hearted at all.

Isn't that just shifting the problem though, its not like the main politics board doesnt have a history of bad tempered bickering and trench warfare when the topics talked about in the cafe were there?

Also wasn't the design of the forum to allow threads to be moved from After Hours to the Cafe without a huge change in moderation, moving them to politics will defeat this goal

Phoebas

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Isn't that just shifting the problem though, its not like the main politics board doesnt have a history of bad tempered bickering and trench warfare when the topics talked about in the cafe were there?

Sure there was bickering and trench warfare. You see that in any place where politics are discussed (Leinster House included), but not nearly at the same level as we now see in the Cafe.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Also wasn't the design of the forum to allow threads to be moved from After Hours to the Cafe without a huge change in moderation, moving them to politics will defeat this goal

Boards.ie should have some data on this to show the drop off of mainly AH posters who post on politics threads in AH, but who don't follow those threads into the Cafe after they are moved.

I suspect the data would show that any goal of a seamless move of politics related threads from AH into the Cafe has already been defeated. But I'm open to correction.

Lovely Bloke

So there was some kind of AAA/PBP/"Solidarity" supporter/member shítting all over a thread in the Cafe over the last few days, I finally reported it this morning after it was ignored for a few days (in another example of the volunteers not being able to read all posts, funny that, isn't it).

I did report it this morning, and a Red Card was issued.

No mod call out, no in thread warning for the poster, no, nothing like that at all, no example made of the person who was doing more to thread-shít than anyone else in the thread combined. Nope.

Then later in the same a mod comes along and decided he'd publicly chastise three posters from that thread.

I mean for jesus sake, is there absolutely no self awareness among the team at all? The bias is now obvious, it's obviously being supported by the heirarchy because no CMod or Admin will come out and say, "yeah, you know what, we are seeing bias here, and here's what we are going to do about it".

If calling out "right wing" thinking posters like that (actually, Anti-AAA/PBP really) and not the actual socialist troll is the policy in that forum, then will someone in a position of responsibility please just say so?

It's absolutely infuriating to see this continue after the thread on the topic was summarily dismissed, closed, done away with.

Was absolutely no feedback taken on board? Are we into the realms of various cmods and Admins just paying lip service to this feedback forum?

It's clearly obvious what's going on here, at least have the balls to admit it.

Lovely Bloke

I've gone and reported a few more posts clearly showing where one poster is allowed to "get away" with similar posting to that which was called out by the mod as illustrated above, one example I've given from only this lunchtime has a moderator posting directly after the problematic post, so this notion that "the volunteers don't see everything" is wearing a little thin.

Delirium

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

So there was some kind of AAA/PBP/"Solidarity" supporter/member shítting all over a thread in the Cafe over the last few days, I finally reported it this morning after it was ignored for a few days (in another example of the volunteers not being able to read all posts, funny that, isn't it).

I did report it this morning, and a Red Card was issued.

No mod call out, no in thread warning for the poster, no, nothing like that at all, no example made of the person who was doing more to thread-shít than anyone else in the thread combined. Nope.

Then later in the same a mod comes along and decided he'd publicly chastise three posters from that thread.

I mean for jesus sake, is there absolutely no self awareness among the team at all? The bias is now obvious, it's obviously being supported by the heirarchy because no CMod or Admin will come out and say, "yeah, you know what, we are seeing bias here, and here's what we are going to do about it".

If calling out "right wing" thinking posters like that (actually, Anti-AAA/PBP really) and not the actual socialist troll is the policy in that forum, then will someone in a position of responsibility please just say so?

It's absolutely infuriating to see this continue after the thread on the topic was summarily dismissed, closed, done away with.

Was absolutely no feedback taken on board? Are we into the realms of various cmods and Admins just paying lip service to this feedback forum?

It's clearly obvious what's going on here, at least have the balls to admit it.

But their post was red carded I'd consider a red card a bigger deal compared to the other post asking posters to modify the nature of their post.

Lovely Bloke

Delirium wrote: »

But their post was red carded I'd consider a red card a bigger deal compared to the other post asking posters to modify the nature of their post.

Look, I've reported other posts (other than the carded one) where the poster behaviour was not called out in a public hand-slap fashion, of a similar nature to the ones that were, in fact, in one particular instance a moderator is the very next poster in the thread, ignoring the similar quality posts, no on-thread call-out or warning.

It's only one "side" being targeted in this fashion on that forum, and it's becoming more and more obvious that this tactic is being supported from above.

Yourself isit

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

So there was some kind of AAA/PBP/"Solidarity" supporter/member shítting all over a thread in the Cafe over the last few days, I finally reported it this morning after it was ignored for a few days (in another example of the volunteers not being able to read all posts, funny that, isn't it).

I did report it this morning, and a Red Card was issued.

No mod call out, no in thread warning for the poster, no, nothing like that at all, no example made of the person who was doing more to thread-shít than anyone else in the thread combined. Nope.

Then later in the same a mod comes along and decided he'd publicly chastise three posters from that thread.

I mean for jesus sake, is there absolutely no self awareness among the team at all? The bias is now obvious, it's obviously being supported by the heirarchy because no CMod or Admin will come out and say, "yeah, you know what, we are seeing bias here, and here's what we are going to do about it".

If calling out "right wing" thinking posters like that (actually, Anti-AAA/PBP really) and not the actual socialist troll is the policy in that forum, then will someone in a position of responsibility please just say so?

It's absolutely infuriating to see this continue after the thread on the topic was summarily dismissed, closed, done away with.

Was absolutely no feedback taken on board? Are we into the realms of various cmods and Admins just paying lip service to this feedback forum?

It's clearly obvious what's going on here, at least have the balls to admit it.

Personally I don't even think that was a minor infection. Not a red card at all.

Kivaro

I haven't posted on Politics Cafe or boards in general since the immigration thread was shut down.
But I am appreciative of the Admins and Mods on this thread being open to suggestions on how to stop a repeat occurrence. I get the sense that some of the feedback on here could lead to a more engaging boards platform.

dudara

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

So there was some kind of AAA/PBP/"Solidarity" supporter/member shítting all over a thread in the Cafe over the last few days, I finally reported it this morning after it was ignored for a few days (in another example of the volunteers not being able to read all posts, funny that, isn't it).

I did report it this morning, and a Red Card was issued.

No mod call out, no in thread warning for the poster, no, nothing like that at all, no example made of the person who was doing more to thread-shít than anyone else in the thread combined. Nope.

Then later in the same a mod comes along and decided he'd publicly chastise three posters from that thread.

I mean for jesus sake, is there absolutely no self awareness among the team at all? The bias is now obvious, it's obviously being supported by the heirarchy because no CMod or Admin will come out and say, "yeah, you know what, we are seeing bias here, and here's what we are going to do about it".

If calling out "right wing" thinking posters like that (actually, Anti-AAA/PBP really) and not the actual socialist troll is the policy in that forum, then will someone in a position of responsibility please just say so?

It's absolutely infuriating to see this continue after the thread on the topic was summarily dismissed, closed, done away with.

Was absolutely no feedback taken on board? Are we into the realms of various cmods and Admins just paying lip service to this feedback forum?

It's clearly obvious what's going on here, at least have the balls to admit it

I've asked posters repeatedly for constructive solutions and suggestions, and a lot of posters have done that. There's been a high level of robust discussion, where not everyone is in agreement but posters have posted respectfully and honestly.

I'll be honest, I'm disappointed to read your posts. You have a known soapbox which you express in just about EVERY Feedback thread. To paraphrase your own comments, you are sh*tting all over this thread and the good suggestions that have been submitted. It takes time to have discussions and put changes into effect, but you would rather shout from the sidelines than be part of the solution.

So quite frankly, I've had enough. You have a choice to either engage constructively in this thread or don't engage at all. It's entirely up to you.

gandalf

I think one of the major failures of modding on boards is giving details of moderators decisions to the great unwashed on the thread. When a person is banned or red carded the reason should be given on thread (preferably on the post in question) so the other posters understand the reason the user was chastised. It happens but again its inconsistent as some mods give the details and others don't. Not giving the information just feeds into some users conspiracy theories about certain classes of posters being targeted on purpose which is normally complete and utter fantasy.

Alf Stewart.

Yourself isit wrote: »

Personally I don't even think that was a minor infection. Not a red card at all.

I'd have to agree with you there.

Not arguing/questioning moderation on the thread, but i definitely can't see what a red was handed out there for.

Herein lies the confusion and inconsistency of it all.

AlekSmart

Kivaro wrote: »

I haven't posted on Politics Cafe or boards in general since the immigration thread was shut down.
But I am appreciative of the Admins and Mods on this thread being open to suggestions on how to stop a repeat occurrence. I get the sense that some of the feedback on here could lead to a more engaging boards platform.

I would suggest a removal of the lock on the E.U Immigration Thread would be a very good start of the re-engagement process.

The issues surrounding E.U. Immigration/Refugee/Asylum processes,have not sudddenly paused to allow Boards stalwarts to navel gaze and mull over high-minded principles ....the topic continues to develop and rumble on in the background,and will continue to do so.

Junkyard Tom

It just needs to be more Cafe and a lot less Library. I, personally, find it hard to know where the line is and have picked up a couple of surprise cards there which scared the bejaysus out of me because I'm trying (real hard Ringo) to avoid a lengthy ban.

Boggles

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would suggest a removal of the lock on the E.U Immigration Thread would be a very good start of the re-engagement process.

Let's not.

Bunch of covert bigotry backed up by Daily Mail links.

Belongs in the bin, leave it there.

jackofalltrades

Can we get an official line on what kind of political threads are allowed in AH?
It's hard to offer suggestions on what to do with the PC, when the rules for AH aren't exactly clear.
Is it just current affairs that are allowed?
Are specific topics banned or discouraged?
Is there a limit on the overall number of political threads?

I think before any move is made to merge forums, there should be a poll to gauge the level of support amongst posters in those respective forums.

IMO I don't think the Cafe should be merged with the main Politics forum.
Judging by the amount of political discussion that occurs outside of the main Politics forum it seems clear to me that it's just not popular with posters.
Currently you can discuss politics in AH, PC, Humanities and in A&A.
If the main Politics forum was wanted most posters wanted then it should be really busy.
Instead it's like a ghost town in there, people are voting with their feet to stay away.

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

Let's not.

Bunch of covert bigotry backed up by Daily Mail links.

Belongs in the bin, leave it there.

With all respect, your personal views on the subject (from a quick read over some of your posts on the topic and indeed the way you phrased the above) are colouring your opinion on the validity of the thread itself

The fact that you disagree with the objections is not enough in my view to warrant shutting down the discussion entirely. The issues and the concerns people have around it will not go away simply because you "don't like" what they're saying - if anything some are likely to become more entrenched as a result of the current impasse.

I'd second the call for reopening the thread (or starting a new one with whatever lessons/points have hopefully been learned here). Despite the poster/mod issues, it's a very valid topic that warrants mature, reasonable, and BALANCED discussion on this site.

AlekSmart

Boggles wrote: »

Let's not.

Bunch of covert bigotry backed up by Daily Mail links.

Belongs in the bin, leave it there.

So it's all down to "Covert Bigotry" and reliance on a U.K. Newspaper ?

OK..I suppose it's a viewpoint,albeit one with a decided bias on view.

I'm not a Daily Mail reader,as I usually graze as many media outlets as my patience allows,but I will admit to a certain admiration,after Boggles dictat spurred me towards the Mail's wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

Circulation c.1.500,000 per day.

The Daily Mail was Britain's first daily newspaper aimed at the newly literate "lower-middle class market resulting from mass education, combining a low retail price with plenty of competitions, prizes and promotional gimmicks",[6] and was the first British paper to sell a million copies a day.

Is it the contention that the E.U. Immigration Thread be closed due to the "Lower Middle Classes" being afforded a tad too much freedom of speech for their ( Covertly Bigoted ?) views ?

Or,is it that the gender & age balance of it's readers,may run counter to what some people might prefer ?

It was aimed at both men and women from the outset, was the first to provide features especially for women,[8][9] and in the second half of 2013 had a 54.77% female readership,[10] the only British newspaper whose female readers constitute more than 50% of its demographic.

I'm happy enough to trust my own senses in deciding what level of veracity I attach to any given media report,and I would certainly never even consider using a individual Newspaper's popularity,or ethos,as a basis for generalizing about any poster on the thread in question.

The Daily Mail has been accused of racism, and printing sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research

Covert Bigotry.....having rolled it around a few times,I have to admit it has a bit of a ring to it,so easily thrown out there,yet at the same time...so inappropriate and dismissive of the core issues raised in the E.U. Immigration thread....

Perhaps "Binning" things is the easier option after all ..less to be seen and all that ?