NIGHT SHOOTING

Cass

Hmm.

Cass

Have a read. Apparently we took it up all wrong. We are spreading false hoods and are "ill-informed" according to Paul Walsh of the so called "sport coalition" (it makes me laugh that they still haven't copped on to how ironic their group name is)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx9nH-8vheA1SURCdWJseDV1QWc/view

The document says that despite what has been reported in various media there is no proposed ban on night time hunting. Well F**K ME. What was the point of the proposals contained within the document especially the part that said a curfew/ban would be implemented from Sept to March from 12 midnight to 6am.

It was said in the document that there are concerns for illegal lamping of deer, people using lamping as a means of "cover story" when they're actually out committing crimes/burglary, etc.

New flash all those crimes and offenses have legislation in place but the lack of enforcement is the cause for concern. People breaking the law already won't abide by new laws or as they put it "voluntary guidelines".

Pay attention to the point they claim the proposals stand for.

1. No changes to legislation. Well d'uh. It's beyond your powers but any adoption of the proposals would require a change to various statutes. To think otherwise shows ignorance and a lack of understanding. If the proposals were designed as guidelines, then they're meaningless.
2. Of course there is no ban. A proposal is not a ban and what we've been telling people since these abominations were first discovered. I say discovered because they didn't come out telling everyone, like so many other secret proposals from the past.
3. So the proposals they issued seeking a ban for 7 months of the year from midnight to 6am, well that didn't happen. Funny cause there in there:

   • Proposal document wrote:

     The solution proposed is that a curfew is in place from 1st Sept until 31st March and operates between the hours of 12 midnight and 6am. During the curfew period no shooting or hunting should take place except in accordance with a licence or permit (e.g. Sec 42).
     

   • There will be no curfew in April, May, June, July and August when the nights are very short. If it becomes apparent that these months are indeed problematic they can be reviewed.
4. If the proposals are voluntary, unlike what was discussed in the original document they are meaningless and unenforceable.
5. No one facing prosecution. Of course not because the legislation allows for it, which brings me back to my first point above about a change to the legislation being needed (though they claim it's not) if the original proposals were implemented.

They harp on about phoning your local station and landowner before going out. If i ring my landowner at 12, 1am, or 2 am to tell him i'm out he'll fecking eat me the next time he sees me. He has given me permission to do this so doesn't want all the details or me bothering him.

As for ringing the local Gardaí. HAH. good luck with that. Three of the 5 local stations have been closed and the other two only answer the phone till 8pm. Jesus wept. Seriously when my Sister's house was broken into it took us nearly two hours o get a Garda. How long to get one to tell him/her i'm heading off for a shot.

They continue to insult the NARGC and the petition we started to counter these proposals saying they were unnecessary as not new changes PROPOSED or otherwise were being made to the legislation. Again this show their ignorance. The BAN THEY CALLED FOR would have needed legislative change to be enacted otherwise any such curfew or ban would be meaningless.

Seriously how f**king stupid do you have to be to see that simple point.

The statement goes on to say that we should look to our European neighbours and how they treat lamping because Ireland, and i'm quoting here:

Proposal Clarification document wrote:

There is no specific regulation/restriction.

So are we to ignore sections 38 of the 1976 act and section 45 of the 2000 amendment act, Or do they not count?

How about section 9 of the 1990 Weapons act about NV and other light emitting devices?

No regulation or restriction. Such sh*te.

So they release a set or proposals that go down quicker than the Titanic and are as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. They they shut up shop, ignore all communications and finally release this pile of sh*t claiming that we are all over reacting and no such ban was called for or proposed.

Well Mr Walsh, as you have signed this steaming pile of horse excrement i'll address this one thing to you. Do you think we are all that stupid?

gunny123

"Anecdotally heard of several instances of public safety issues" ? Not worth the paper its written on so, hearsay and hot air.

"Illegal night time deer hunting and shooting from the road were also raised", fine report it to the gardai, they are already crimes, let those who are paid to uphold the law, do their jobs.

All through this "report" the phrase "unreported" was used, so how did they hear about these issues then ?

Also what do the shooting laws and conditions of Lithuania, France and Estonia have to do with the price of fish, last time i checked i resided in Ireland, why do we need to compare ourselves to countries with very different sporting cultures to our own ?

cavan shooter

The positives:

Isnt it great to see that the Sports Coalition of vested interests are back tracking very quickly on the **** up of the highest order. They have seen how polarized and isolated they are becoming and realise they will shortly cease to exist.

Negatives:

Somewhere someone is reading that rubbish and believing it, fact remains we would have been done over by these select view if we (Boards Community) hadnt have copped this and kicked up a huge fuss.

The clarification if you want to call it that reads like an individual trying to convince himself he is doing the right thing........emphasis on Individual and HE

gunny123

Yes Longdrag was the one who upped this first and fair play to him for that.

cavan shooter

gunny123 wrote: »

Yes Longdrag was the one who upped this first and fair play to him for that.

Longdrag you should get a medal.

Walter Mittys Brother

So NARGC weren't on this sub committee. IFA proposed the curfew. All participants were in favour of what was proposed which would include IFA who now apparently don't agree with them. Speaking of previous under the table deals. It's a pity we weren't tipped off in the original FCP about the pilot reloading proposal until it was all sorted. Let's hope the other pile of horse manure currently being discussed behind closed doors on this FCP namely the mandatory safety courses will be rallied against in the same way this night shooting proposal has been. I'm sure most if not all the participants on the FCP stand to make money out of training schemes so doubt it. I wonder if this night time curfew was thrown out there to divert attention from other discussions? Where's my tinfoil hat

Sparks

It's a pity we weren't tipped off in the original FCP about the pilot reloading proposal until it was all sorted.

Ye what? The original FCP called for proposals and said in their public meeting that they'd only gotten one by the time of that meeting and that the deadline was coming up so people needed to hurry up and submit. There was even a thread on the topic on here at the time.

Hunter456

what a load of horse ****e they knew exactly what they were doing.

Walter Mittys Brother

Sparks wrote: »

Ye what? The original FCP called for proposals and said in their public meeting that they'd only gotten one by the time of that meeting and that the deadline was coming up so people needed to hurry up and submit. There was even a thread on the topic on here at the time.

I'll correct my comment so to many of us weren't told until it was all sorted.

cavan shooter

gunny123 wrote: »

"Anecdotally heard of several instances of public safety issues" ? Not worth the paper its written on so, hearsay and hot air.

"Illegal night time deer hunting and shooting from the road were also raised", fine report it to the gardai, they are already crimes, let those who are paid to uphold the law, do their jobs.

All through this "report" the phrase "unreported" was used, so how did they hear about these issues then ?

Also what do the shooting laws and conditions of Lithuania, France and Estonia have to do with the price of fish, last time i checked i resided in Ireland, why do we need to compare ourselves to countries with very different sporting cultures to our own ?

Gunny your right agree with the above... Unreported, well in my book that means Lies. There is no Tangible evidence. As for Anecdote there is a quote which says that the plural of anecdote is "not data". and Mark Twain once said that Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.

Again I make the point its a desperate plea from some desperate people trying to save face also and dare I say it it seems to be written by more than one person especially when you compare the other statements and the minutes on the SC web. I have always fancied a job as a Ghost writer.....Good pay apparently.

berettaman

Anecdotally there have been many instances of aliens landing in Carlow...but this has largely gone under reported...:D

Anecdotally the Irish Firearms dealers Association has a sizeable membership...;)

I could go on..

Waiting nearly two months for a response to one of the greatest threats to shooting and hunting at night in years and this is what they come up with..Coalition my hole evening will be gone laughing at this....


There are so many incorrect assertions ... why bother..

Lads, ye were feckin caught trying to commercialise our sport from the inside out...now do me a favour and feck off. If it wasn't for the a few diligent members of the NARGC that would not bend the knee and kept asking questions ye would be sorted and we would all be F#@ked...

shootemall

With all these transgender blokes indentifying
As women to take place in women's sporting
Events , I was thinking of identifying as an owl
To take place in night time hunting

cavan shooter

berettaman wrote:

Anecdotally the Irish Firearms dealers Association has a sizeable membership...

When your the only person un the room a mirror makes a crowd. As anyone ever got an answer as to the membership of these shower of Clarts. Is there a website?.

grassroot1

Do you think Paul had a ghost writer?
If fairness Paul put his email address on the bottom of the press release, so please let him know how you feel.

Backbarrel

cavan shooter wrote: »

When your the only person un the room a mirror makes a crowd. As anyone ever got an answer as to the membership of these shower of Clarts. Is there a website?.

This is spot on...

PW to mirror..You the man..
hears the Echo..."you the man..you the man"
PW : "gotta love the positive vibes.."

Backbarrel

grassroot1 wrote: »

Do you think Paul had a ghost writer?
If fairness Paul put his email address on the bottom of the press release, so please let him know how you feel.

Anyone that ever met him would know...ooh yeah, some one has ghost written the fock outta that;)

kenneths

The SC response is pathetic.
The final part of the email could be bad if people actually send his list of questions to the justice department. What do you think.
Maybe we should email him our pointless petitions ��

Grizzly 45

Serious amount of back peddeling there while throwing smoke and flares to cover a hasty retreat.:p
Somebody seriously needs to go to do a few" Damage limitation PR 101" courses in SC.They made some very serious PR mistakes in this that sinks their creditability even further,if not already sunk.

Didnt own the situation,or their mess.Opened communications when it was a full blown crisis.Defelcted and blame gamed the opposition.Then played the "if you dont belive us go talk to...line".Then a bit of "whataboutery" to top off this train wreck. All they needed to finish it off was a "What does it matter now?" Hillary Clinton at the Benghazi hearings statement.
Continue like this and they will have plenty of room for the next AGM in the last remaining phone booth in Ireland.

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Somebody seriously needs to go to do a few" Damage limitation PR 101" courses in SC.They made some very serious PR mistakes in this that sinks their creditability even further,if not already sunk.

Sunk ? With friends like these, who needs enemies ?

Zxthinger

Anyone who was onboard with this nonsense needs to be pushed from shooting sports. These 7uckers will only hurt us again if left alone

g00167015

berettaman wrote: »

Anecdotally the Irish Firearms dealers Association has a sizeable membership...;)

I am reminded of "Bottler" the young alter-ego of the standup comedian Brendan Grace..........


"I grew up in a massive family............there was only two of us, but we were HUGE" :-D

grassroot1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Serious amount of back peddeling there while throwing smoke and flares to cover a hasty retreat.:p
Somebody seriously needs to go to do a few" Damage limitation PR 101" courses in SC.They made some very serious PR mistakes in this that sinks their creditability even further,if not already sunk.

Didnt own the situation,or their mess.Opened communications when it was a full blown crisis.Defelcted and blame gamed the opposition.Then played the "if you dont belive us go talk to...line".Then a bit of "whataboutery" to top off this train wreck. All they needed to finish it off was a "What does it matter now?" Hillary Clinton at the Benghazi hearings statement.
Continue like this and they will have plenty of room for the next AGM in the last remaining phone booth in Ireland.

Oh grizzly you dont think the SC will have an AGM do you, to be anwserable to anyone is not their style.

cavan shooter

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx9nH-8vheA1SURCdWJseDV1QWc/view

I read this again and decided to answer it by breaking it down as logically as I can along the logic of having a controlled rant/debate with myself (I guess Like a future AGM of The Sports Coalition:D:D),

Im not a great writer but the Press release is very poorly written and it is very contradicting throughout. As Grizzly 45 said a serious amount of back pedaling.

It seems to ramble along on the premise that we cant read and make sense of the "so called debate" and we are all ill informed. Let me start with the following explanation anything in Italics is from the statement, Anything in bold is my direct response) see below
+++++++++++++++++

PRESS STATEMENT

There has been much hysteria published in various media about the proposed guidelines for night shooting, much of it false and virtually all of it ill-informed. From some of the comments made, it is difficult to understand why anyone would wish to confuse landowners and hunters on such an important issue.

That’s Statement is unclear and derogatory remark we can clearly see what the Sports Coalition are trying to do they are also not interested in representing anyone but there own interests. We are the Gob****es...we didnt understand.. go back now to your tigin we have it under control again

The purpose of this communique is to provide a factual explanation of the
proposals, their origins, what they mean for landowners and hunters alike, and the legal implications.

No the purpose of the communique is to try an salvage what little credibility you guys have left before being cast into the wilderness and becoming a footnote to shooting sports in Ireland after this whole scale sell out of a large number of the shooting community....and by the way at the end of your letter you said there is no legal implications.......can you make up your mind please

Origins section of the letter i.e (the Anectdotes/lies/mistruths and made up stuff that no one seems to have a record of but knows someone who knows someone......

In the absence if facts these statements are not worth the paper they are written on. He quite rightly mentions the word illegal. Nothing we do is illegal, if the Sports Coalition has concerns about rural crime, there efforts would be best placed petitioning the Government to re open rural Garda Stations and invest in Community watch programs. Poaching cannot be condoned and it should be noted that the NPWS and ag Garda Siochana are best place to address this matter through Policing of the existing Laws

The Proposals etc ect etc Read them above in the link

Anything that goes into the Commissioners Guidelines will be a defacto Ban as a Superintendent can place these restrictions on anyone who proposes to hunt at night. They are making out that people out shooting foxes for farmers are not telling them....they are my neighbours i was drinking tea with them or they were with me when i was out. As for notifying the Gardai about going out lamping.....When did the Sports Coalition decide that this was in the interests of the people they represent So when this precedent is started will we have to inform our local Garda Station that we are going to do a night flight, Morning Flight, going after woodcock on a Sunday. The Sports Coalition are bringing in some very dangerous precedents. So The Sports Coalition are asking the Gardai to place shooting restrictions on Shooting men/Hunters??? Who are these Gob****es representing, will someone please tell me.??

Another Gem of a Quote:
The proposals are simply a voluntary set of best practice guidelines which relevant land user organisations are being asked to recommend to their members to ease safety concerns of landowners and the public.

Voluntary with a Gun to your head is not Voluntary

You are asking The Gardai to implement a defacto ban through Stealth, let me Quote….” It was also felt that An Garda Siochana might consider from time to time using their existing powers to apply appropriate conditions on the licenses of particular individuals who engage in activities which, while not illegal, give cause for concern from a public safety point of view”.

Why are we only hearing now that this is such an issue, The NARGC Fund/CAI and IFA must be wiped with all these claims against Rogue shooters.

The Legal Implications

The simple fact of the matter is there are no new or extra legal implications to those which already
exist currently.

Not True I don’t have any stipulations at present on my Hunting Foxes at Night, Keep Going Sports Coalition with this approach and I will have lots of these lovely restrictions.

Why should we even be considering the position of other EU Countries unless you are looking to bring in the same restrictions, and so where does it Stop, are we now looking at the Commissioners guidelines restricting the shooting of Deer early morning and late evening due to public safety concerns if the Sports Coalition keep coming out with this kind of rubbish then the answer is yes "For Public Safety Reasons" Look to restricting the following calibers for shooting deer. 308, 6.5 x 55, ……. sure 243 is plenty.

Its sad to think that we are constantly being sold down the river at every chance and by people who should have there hand on the pulse of this sport.

cavan shooter

I see they The Sports Coalition of vested interests printed their propaganda in the Digest.

Good to see that the Firearms dealers have gotten of their arses too.

Sparks

cavan shooter wrote: »

I see they The Sports Coalition of vested interests printed their propaganda in the Digest.

Paper never refused ink.
Not sure that this drives down the quality of that particular brand of paper myself, you understand, but to each their own...

cavan shooter

I know what your saying. Maybe it's time for a rebuttal

gunny123

I don't buy the digest anymore. What did the article say ? The jist will do.

cavan shooter

Exact same boring **** the Sports Coalition of vested interests justifying there major fcuk up and loss of credibility

Backbarrel

cavan shooter wrote: »

I see they The Sports Coalition of vested interests printed their propaganda in the Digest.

Good to see that the Firearms dealers have gotten of their arses too.

Thought the article was a self serving pile of sh1te..

A good reply would rip it asunder but is it even worth it.?

Any decent shooting man knows whats going on..