2017 UK General Election - 8th June

Professor Moriarty

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

Hard to believe that the Tories and DUP reached a deal so quickly.They deserve each other!

No doubt discussions took place as soon as polls began to show the possibility of a hung parliament.

Lux23

I can't for the life of me understand why the DUP want a hard Brexit or Brexit at all - how many of their core rural supporters rely on EU subsidies?

LeinsterDub

How long can this "understanding" survive. Only 2 defections away from a failed vote or a lost by electronic

Right2Write

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

Hard to believe that the Tories and DUP reached a deal so quickly.They deserve each other!

And a joint administration in NI is dead in the water for the foreseeable future.

wes

Coalition will be very weak. Only take a small group of rebels to bring down the government. Wouldn't surprise me, if the UK is back to the polls soon.

Brexit really broke the UK. Well the conservatives did to be more accurately. Foolish gamble last year, and another this year.

The EU can play hardball knowing full well how weak the Tory's are. Wouldn't take much to cause the government to fall.

LeinsterDub

Lux23 wrote: »

I can't for the life of me understand why the DUP want a hard Brexit or Brexit at all - how many of their core rural supporters rely on EU subsidies?

The DUP will just draw down more money from their favourite other union

Professor Moriarty

Lux23 wrote: »

I can't for the life of me understand why the DUP want a hard Brexit or Brexit at all - how many of their core rural supporters rely on EU subsidies?

The DUP don't want a hard Brexit.

Any links?

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

Any links?

Are you asking me?

Right2Write

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The DUP will just draw down more money from their favourite other union

Money for old rope for all the boys and girls

So it's now in SF power to prevent the DUP wagging the dog in a brexit coalition.

Serious test of their dedication here imo.

FrancieBrady

wes wrote: »

Coalition will be very weak. Only take a small group of rebels to bring down the government. Wouldn't surprise me, if the UK is back to the polls soon.

Brexit really broke the UK. Well the conservatives did to be more accurately. Foolish gamble last year, and another this year.

The EU can play hardball knowing full well how weak the Tory's are. Wouldn't take much to cause the government to fall.

This is what will happen now.

Massive instability, a Labour party growing in confidence and a tory party imploding from in fighting and power struggles.

Any minor party is well out of it in my opinion.

Chips Lovell

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The DUP will just draw down more money from their favourite other union

Exactly. They don't give a toss if it damages the NI economy because they'll be bailed out by Westminster anyway, especially since they now hold the balance of power.

The only upside for Ireland is that there'll be zero chance of a Border poll for the next while.

devnull

Nutall gone as leader of UKIP

Kiith

Can SF actually so anything about this? And if so, why wouldn't they? Surely it's in their interest to not see a Tory/DUP coalition?

Professor Moriarty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is what will happen now.

Massive instability, a Labour party growing in confidence and a tory party imploding from in fighting and power struggles.

Any minor party is well out of it in my opinion.

True. Time to stand back and watch them commit hari kari. This is good for Ireland and the EU. Probably good for Britain in the long term too.

wes

Will be interesting to see if Theresa May will try and hang on. If she does, I believe it will only cause more chaos. She needs to resign imho, a Therexit is needed .

A coalition with the DUP, will probably hurt the Tory's with more moderate supporters as well. They were happy to hammer Corbyn over stuff he said in regards to the IRA, well now there in bed with one of the other parties of the Northern conflict.

Mr.Micro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is what will happen now.

Massive instability, a Labour party growing in confidence and a tory party imploding from in fighting and power struggles.

Any minor party is well out of it in my opinion.

That won't stop any of the small parties.....the lure of power may be too much. They ditch all principles for it...lol.

devnull

Theresa May has decided for an unstable link-up with the DUP to keep in power it seems.

After all her talk about stability

The woman cannot be trusted, she is a compulsive liar who has a track record of misleading the public for her own agenda.

devnull

May to visit Queen at 12.30pm to appoint government.

Deal with DUP agreed it's believed

FrancieBrady

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

True. Time to stand back and watch them commit hari kari. This is good for Ireland and the EU. Probably good for Britain in the long term too.

I think so.
The DUP are all in on this deal.
I cannot see the UK government lasting a year to be honest.

ThisRegard

Cazale wrote: »

A deal has been done already between the DUP and May.

The DUPs price for propping up a new Conservative government will include a promise that there would be no post-Brexit special status for Northern Ireland, the partys leader in Westminster has confirmed.

The leader has? The official line from the DUP is to neither confirm, nor deny, they're even in talks.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Are you asking me?

I wasn't, was just looking for confirmation of the Tory/DUP thing.

wes

FrancieBrady wrote: »

a Labour party growing in confidence

Parliamentary Labour party will now have to support Corbyn. I don't think there Anti-Corbyn position is a feasible one anymore.

Mr.Micro

It just shows how incompetent May is. How long can she last as PM?

elefant

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

FrancieBrady

wes wrote: »

Parliamentary Labour party will now have to support Corbyn. I don't think there Anti-Corbyn position is a feasible one anymore.

Corbyn is safe - bigtime. He has risen the Labour party (a real Labour party) from the ashes.

That in itself will be pivotal.

First Up

elefant wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

Having to swear the oath of allegiance might be a deal breaker.

devnull

elefant wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

I get impression they care more about their pride than something which might effect the people they represent.

Their hatred for Westminster and the Brits and the long term interests of themselves is more important than their care for the people of NI in short term.

I'm surprised you need to ask that about SF, remember how they moaned like hell about FF/FG but declined to do anything about it for the same reason.

lawred2

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

Hard to believe that the Tories and DUP reached a deal so quickly.They deserve each other!

Low morals are easily found in low places

Jayop

SF stood on a policy of not taking seats. Increased their vote in every single constituency and gained three seats. They won't change now and nor should they.

Personally I don't see the point voting for them for a Westminster election but that's their mandate.

theoneeyedman

If IS is or Al Quieda had caused as much damage to the UK as the tories and their cronies over the last ten-fifteen years, they would be delighted.

Economy in a heap with austerity etc, due to the policies of free market /deregulation, unnecessary Brexit referendum causing instability across the EU as well as the UK, and now a version of 'Strong & Stable' government that is anything but, following a completely unnecessary general election

Democratic Terrorism ®.

(I want a penny from anyone who uses that term)

wes

devnull wrote: »

I get impression they care more about their pride than something which might effect the people they represent.

Their hatred for Westminster and the Brits and the long term interests of themselves is more important than their care for the people of NI in short term.

If Sinn Fein could stop a disaster and don't. It will hurt them here imho. There pride could wipe out the gains they have been making here. Right now, they seem to be the do nothing party. I think a lot of people could care less about there pride.

FrancieBrady

devnull wrote: »

I get impression they care more about their pride than something which might effect the people they represent.

Their hatred for Westminster and the Brits and the long term interests of themselves is more important than their care for the people of NI in short term.

I'm surprised you need to ask that about SF, remember how they moaned like hell about FF/FG but declined to do anything about it for the same reason.

How come that isn't showing in how people are voting? The SDLP got wiped off the map last night. They take their seats.

Unless you can show how people are massively worse off it's a tremendously patronising attitude.

elefant

devnull wrote: »

I get impression they care more about their pride than something which might effect the people they represent.

Their hatred for Westminster and the Brits and the long term interests of themselves is more important than their care for the people of NI in short term.

I'm surprised you need to ask that about SF, remember how they moaned like hell about FF/FG but declined to do anything about it for the same reason.

Is it something that any coalition would have to keep in mind at all times though?

Would they be so confident in Sinn Fein staying away no matter what that they could still push through something controversial for the North, considering the majority is founded entirely upon SF not taking their seats, even for just one vote?

sink

elefant wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

650 seat parliament, 326 needed for majority. Tory 319 + DUP 10 = 329. They don't need SF to abstain.

bilston

elefant wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

The DUP plus Conservatives takes May to 328/329 seats, so even if SF took their seats the Tories/DUP would have a 6/8 seat majority.

When May goes to the Queen and asks permission to form a government can Lizzy say no? I'm assuming no, and it's just a rubber stamping exercise.

Peregrinus

Kiith wrote: »

Can SF actually so anything about this?

No. Tory/DUP have a majority, regardless of what stance SF takes.

Kiith wrote: »

And if so, why wouldn't they? Surely it's in their interest to not see a Tory/DUP coalition?

The question is hypothetical, obviously. But I think the answer is that they wouldn't. They're not about who governs the UK; they're about who governs Ireland. The chance to influence who governs the UK is not that big a draw to them, and certainly not big enough to get them to swear to be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, and her heirs and successors as by law appointed, which is what they'd have to do in order to take their seats as Westminster.

devnull

wes wrote: »

If Sinn Fein could stop a disaster and don't. It will hurt them here imho. There pride could wipe out the gains they have been making here. Right now, they seem to be the do nothing party. I think a lot of people could care less about there pride.

Indeed, remember how they moaned like hell about FF/FG but declined to do anything about it for a similar reason.

Pride.

Nody

elefant wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

Nope; Tory will be at 318 (1 seat undeclared so could go up to 319) and 10 DUP means they are above the 326 seat threshold required for own majority. So SF can sit back and claim moral high ground for now but if a few tories/DUPs would disagree (3 to 4 would be enough) in a vote they could tip the balance.

devnull

elefant wrote: »

Is it something that any coalition would have to keep in mind at all times though?

Would they be so confident in Sinn Fein staying away no matter what that they could still push through something controversial for the North, considering the majority is founded entirely upon SF not taking their seats, even for just one vote?

With SF's track record of being a do-nothing party, I doubt they will do anything.

I'll eat my hat if they do.

Chardee MacDennis

why is everyone talking about SF, them taking their seats wouldn't affect a Tory/DUP coalition...

elefant

sink wrote: »

650 seat parliament, 326 needed for majority. Tory 319 + DUP 10 = 329. They don't need SF to abstain.

Well, that makes my question completely redundant :pac:

Last figures I saw this morning had Tories at 313

Nothing to see here...

bilston

For what it's worth I think SF should take their seats, obviously something would have to agreed regarding the oath but really given the make up of this parliament they could have real influence, and I say that as a supporter of the Union in NI (albeit an Alliance voter).

First Up

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

why is everyone talking about SF, them taking their seats wouldn't affect a Tory/DUP coalition...

The DUP position is much more important. If, as reported they are saying no special status for NI, then we are looking at a border.

FrancieBrady

The DUP look like they have done a deal in a matter of hours.
There will be no huge dividend for the people here.

They probably got an assurance that the Tories wont kick much of a fuss up about Nama and RHI and will keep Arlene safe.

devnull

First Up wrote: »

The DUP position is much more important. If, as reported they are saying no special status for NI, then we are looking at a border.

Have to think about the Northern Ireland Assembly in all of this as well.

DUP could really start a lot of crap between NI and ROI if that is true.

Guess that might play into SF's hands though.

bilston

There is little prospect of the Tories/DUP "arrangement" surviving 5 years with such a slim majority, particularly with Brexit looming large and the monumental impact that will have on NI.

Northern Ireland and Ireland in general (due to the discussions over hard/soft border) just became very relevant in British politics again.

Jayop

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

why is everyone talking about SF, them taking their seats wouldn't affect a Tory/DUP coalition...

Because certain groups of people in the South are obsessed with them and will try to attack them over anything including the shocking revelation that they will keep their word.

These same people are so entrenched in their hatred for SF that their minds can't possibly understand how they keep making gains in every election despite not playing to a FF/FF/DUP tune.

I think only one local election in the north a few years ago aside they have made significant and steady gains on both sides of the border. Yet the haters call for change. It's hilarious.

lawred2

elefant wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on the machinations of this but:

If the Tory/DUP coalition were to be on the verge of confirming something that Sinn Fein were totally opposed to, would there be anything (but themselves) stopping them taking their seats in parliament just at that time, and removing the coalition's majority, just like that?

Nothing has ever stopped SF taking their seats but themselves