2017 UK General Election - 8th June

A Little Pony

The hysteria is absolutely hilarious on social media. I read someone who thought the DUP was formed out of the Ulster resistance. :D
I don't think the DUP should prop up the Tories. Is it really worth the hassle I doubt it. But the English criticism will be like water off a ducks back to the DUP.

ThisRegard

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Clearly the 'new alliance' is making a few Tories nervous if Adam Boulton is right.

I honestly don't think people put any thought into it, then all of a sudden they're wait, what?!?

devnull

May has just been on Sky News.

basically saying
- sorry for people losing seats
- she wanted better results
- she'll reflect on results and what needs to be done in future to take party forward
- not thinking about resigning just her colleagues who lost their seats
- clear they are party with most seats and most votes
- forming government in national interest
- avoided question on if brexit hand is weakened
- says it's important to have certainity of a government who can handle neogiations
- only party in position to do that.
- dodged question about if she and government can last a full term

Whole thing was full of repeating the same words and phrases over and over again.

Looks like her programmer has changed the CD and loaded up some new phrases.

Very much came across as party comes first.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

The hysteria is absolutely hilarious on social media. I read someone who thought the DUP was formed out of the Ulster resistance. :D
I don't think the DUP should prop up the Tories. Is it really worth the hassle I doubt it. But the English criticism will be like water off a ducks back to the DUP.

When the dust settles I reckon it will be realised that what happened on social media was what did for the Tories.

Very well used by Labour imo.

Harika

realdanbreen wrote: »

Theresa May's arrogance should match up well with the DUP. She has just made one of the greatest political cock ups in tory history-and that's saying something-and yet came out at lunchtime with a 'now lets's get to work' speech as if she hadn't royally f****d up!

She is in denial that she isn't toast, Boris won't back her up in public and parts of the torries will shudder in disgust by working together with DUP. What stroke me was that the DUP hasn't come out yet to support the Tory government, only let's wait and see. Meanwhile Teresa just assumed they would do whatever she wants and claimed them in her speech.

A Little Pony

Harika wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

Theresa May's arrogance should match up well with the DUP. She has just made one of the greatest  political cock ups in tory history-and that's saying something-and yet came out at lunchtime with a 'now lets's get to work' speech as if she hadn't royally f****d up!

She is in denial that she isn't toast, Boris won't back her up in public and parts of the torries will shudder in disgust by working together with DUP. What stroke me was that the DUP hasn't come out yet to support the Tory government, only let's wait and see. Meanwhile Teresa just assumed they would do whatever she wants and claimed them in her speech.

Because some might see it as just hassle. Why take the ****. England actually thought the Tories were a Conservative party. Nothing Conservative about them.

Jayop

keane2097 wrote: »

We don't all feel like that, for what it's worth.

I absolutely 100% believe and appreciate that. I don't even for one second believe that it's a majority of FG supporters who do, or even a majority of the elected reps. Some of them have been very good with regards to the North. Others the opposite.

Jayop

A Little Pony wrote: »

The hysteria is absolutely hilarious on social media. I read someone who thought the DUP was formed out of the Ulster resistance. :D
I don't think the DUP should prop up the Tories. Is it really worth the hassle I doubt it. But the English criticism will be like water off a ducks back to the DUP.

We don't often agree but that's bang on. If anything they'll revel in the notoriety.

realdanbreen

Anyone in Britain who isn't familiar with the DUP will get a sneak preview of their followers on the 'glorious 12th' !

wes

DUP will surely piss off Irish Americans. Might jeopardize any trade deal with the US, that they desperately need.

I think May has made her 2nd big mistake, by working with extremists like the DUP.

Jayop

realdanbreen wrote: »

Anyone in Britain who isn't familiar with the DUP will get a sneak preview of their followers on the 'glorious 12th' !

With the help of God it'll go off quietly enough. The worst thing about the 12th nowadays for most people is the stupid placement of the bonfires next to people's houses.

A Little Pony

wes wrote: »

DUP will surely piss off Irish Americans. Might jeopardize any trade deal with the US, that they desperately need.

I think May has made her 2nd big mistake, by working with extremists like the DUP.

Sinn Fein and the DUP worked together for years. English people need to get over it frankly. Starting to think some elements within England don't want those 'paddies' ruling over them.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the DUP worked together for years.

And that ended in tears because one party fought tooth and nail against normalising and the issuance of rights to northern Irish society. Rights that everyone in the rest of the UK have, and now that party are in cahoots with a desperate Tory party.

The future's rosy.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Little Pony wrote: »

Starting to think some elements within England don't want those 'paddies' ruling over them.

You are only picking that up now, it is been like that for years with regards to Scotland.

People in Britian are saying DUwho

The attacks with regards to the DUP will not be aimed at the DUP as quite frankly they are nut-jobs anyway. The attacks will be aimed at the Tories for getting into bed with Terrorist apologists

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the DUP worked together for years.

And that ended in tears because one party fought tooth and nail against normalising and the issuance of rights to northern Irish society. Rights that everyone in the rest of the UK have, and now that party are in cahoots with a desperate Tory party.

The future's rosy.

That can only happen with a new executive. Maybe now that the DUP rules the roost maybe they will get it back up again with a concession or two.

ancapailldorcha

Realdanbreen, please don't just dump links here.

ancapailldorcha

A Little Pony wrote: »

That can only happen with a new executive. Maybe now that the DUP rules the roost maybe they will get it back up again with a concession or two.

Looks like parity between Britain and Northern Ireland was the only thing they got. I can't see Theresa May letting them enact any of their anti-equality agenda.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

That can only happen with a new executive. Maybe now that the DUP rules the roost maybe they will get it back up again with a concession or two.

The DUP will concede that their religious views should be left in their churches? I wouldn't think that is going to happen.

rossie1977

There will be another general election before December 2018, the current arrangement is just unworkable. Not sure what May is trying to achieve or what she thinks she can achieve but staying on is completely fruitless.

A Little Pony

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

That can only happen with a new executive. Maybe now that the DUP rules the roost maybe they will get it back up again with a concession or two.

Looks like parity between Britain and Northern Ireland was the only thing they got. I can't see Theresa May letting them enact any of their anti-equality agenda.

No but the DUP could pull the plug at any moment. She might need to join the Order to keep her job. :angel:

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

That can only happen with a new executive. Maybe now that the DUP rules the roost maybe they will get it back up again with a concession or two.

The DUP will concede that their religious views should be left in their churches? I wouldn't think that is going to happen.

Irish language act with Ulster Scots act etc. Something like that.

ancapailldorcha

A Little Pony wrote: »

No but the DUP could pull the plug at any moment. She might need to join the Order to keep her job. :angel:

I can't see that happening. Northern Ireland voted strongly to remain in the EU. A border poll would be the end of NI as an entity and they know it. The current deal is their best chance of avoiding that and it's better than anything they could ever have hoped for.

A Little Pony

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

No but the DUP could pull the plug at any moment. She might need to join the Order to keep her job. :angel:

I can't see that happening. Northern Ireland voted strongly to remain in the EU. A border poll would be the end of NI as an entity and they know it. The current deal is their best chance of avoiding that and it's better than anything they could ever have hoped for.

A border poll would be rejected. It's one thing being in favour of the EU, it's another thing wanting a UI. Two of my family members voted Remain but they would all vote to remain in the UK. It's a different question.

Harika

A Little Pony wrote: »

A border poll would be rejected. It's one thing being in favour of the EU, it's another thing wanting a UI. Two of my family members voted Remain but they would all vote to remain in the UK. It's a different question.

DUP would be against hard or no deal brexit, that would be madness for them as this would imply a physical border between NI and IRL. Something May would be fine as possible outcome.

wes

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the DUP worked together for years. English people need to get over it frankly. Starting to think some elements within England don't want those 'paddies' ruling over them.

Irish Americans can be riled up easily enough, and considering the climate in the US right, it wouldn't take much for them to kick up a fuss.

Right2Write

One thing is for sure, the SF goose in NI is well and truly cooked for the immediate future. They have some hard thinking to do, no easy road anymore.

blanch152

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the DUP worked together for years. English people need to get over it frankly. Starting to think some elements within England don't want those 'paddies' ruling over them.

I have a lot of sympathy for the view that the DUP are unsuitable for governance in London. It is very similar to the stance being taken by many that SF are unsuitable for governance in Dublin. I don't think you can support one and oppose the other.

They have been in charge of the Assembly together in the North and if one is suitable/unsuitable (delete according to your view) for governing in a full democracy, then the other is too.

blanch152

Harika wrote: »

DUP would be against hard or no deal brexit, that would be madness for them as this would imply a physical border between NI and IRL. Something May would be fine as possible outcome.

There is a difference between a "hard border" and a "hard Brexit".

FrancieBrady

Did I just hear that right on the RTE Drivetime: 'There is no deal yet?'

devnull

May Appears now to have lost control of the top of her own party.

Yesterday it was already planned for a cabinet reshuffle to take place at 12pm today

However it never occured and deadlines of 3pm and 5pm that were fed to the media this morning by Tory sources were not met.

Earlier speculation was that her position was so weak that she was not able to push through the chances she wanted, now it's being reported that the senior team will not have any reshuffle..

It appears that May is no longer able to command the respect and support of her own party and the rebels of the Tory party are now running the show.

Harika

blanch152 wrote: »

There is a difference between a "hard border" and a "hard Brexit".

Hard Brexit means hard border. And this won't happen as the EU negotiation team, wont take DUP serious if they want that. If they insist to be serious, this gets leaked and 15 minutes later you will see pitchforks and torches outside of every DUP office.
So May is now limited to a soft brexit or going "crazy Teresa" and imploding the coalition.

FrancieBrady

Nearly 1500 tweets since this one hashtag was posted a while ago.

Wonder is it impacting on Tory party thinking?

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=%23DUP&src=tyah

lawred2

May's incompetence, arrogance and terrible judgement will see her jobless in short order.. Running to the DUP without any real discussion with the parliamentary party was a bad move.. British people are only cottoning on to who the DUP are.. And I bet many Tory constituents are already contacting their newly elected representatives to voice their disgust.. I can't see all 319 Tories holding their noses here and voting against their best interests..

First Up

blanch152 wrote:

I have a lot of sympathy for the view that the DUP are unsuitable for governance in London. It is very similar to the stance being taken by many that SF are unsuitable for governance in Dublin. I don't think you can support one and oppose the other.

They won't be in government in London.

Gbear

There seems to be a lot of sweeping statements being made about how huge this election is.

Of course, in practice there's been a huge shift in power against the Tories, the government is in chaos, May looks like a fool and all that kind of thing.

But, as far as assigning motives to the voting, talking about the shift in public opinion, there being some impending Labour landslidea and a massive vindication of Corbyn goes, I don't think that's anything like as clear.

Labour votes have increased by 3.5m, vs 2.3m for the Tories. They've narrowed the gap, but it's still substantial.
In terms of seats, they've again narrowed the gap, but it's still 57 seats.

SNP are talked about having a disaster but while it's 400k fewer votes and 20 fewer seats, that's on a very small population, and I haven't gone and checked every constituency but it's likely many of the wins in 2015 were marginal and many of the losses are this time around as well.

It seems the nature of FPTP to flip-flop massively.

Clearly, there has been some change, and the practicalities are huge for the country, but given how poor a campaign May ran and the ability of Corbyn to energise a young population this time around, I don't think still losing by 60 seats and a million votes is either a sudden massive rejection of Tory politics in a country that has voted them in for most of its existence, or a huge vindication of Corbyn, either as a character and leader, or as the representative of a set of policies.

I don't think most of those that swung have a ****ing notion about what they're voting for and I think trying to ascribe particular motivations to what happened is a fools errand unless you have some seriously heavy duty statistics to hand to back you up.

PeadarCo

Gbear wrote:

It seems the nature of FPTP to flip-flop massively.

That's true if votes are evenly distributed between 10 seats and theres a 51 49 split between two parties a 2% would see 100% of seats changes. The thing about the UK is that there are alot of safe seats.

Itssoeasy

I've not read any of this thread today and just watching CNN over the last hour and from the pictures of both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn I've seen you'd swear Corbyn won. Theresa May had a look on her face liked she's been yelled at by some in her party.

Also the DUP and their views(which are backward IMO) will have a spotlight on them and I'm not so sure how many conservative MPs and voters will like them.

Jamiekelly

PeadarCo wrote: »

That's true if votes are evenly distributed between 10 seats and theres a 51 49 split between two parties a 2% would see 100% of seats changes. The thing about the UK is that there are alot of safe seats.

Kensington says differently

FTA69

Next Tory voter who whinges to me about Corbyn and the IRA is getting a slap.

EDIT; forgot we weren't in the cafe.

On a serious note; this lays bare the total and utter hypocrisy behind the Conservative party. They spent weeks flogging some dead IRA horse (while arming the Saudis) and then jump into a party with extensive paramilitary links in order to save their own skin. Make no mistake, this won't last. The stories are in disarray and all of those decrying Labour can observe the fact that they got the highest vote since 1997.

Once May makes a pig's arse out of Brexit Labour will be quid's in. A sea changed has occurred and its great to see. I saw a photo earlier of lads from my boxing club in Wood Green outside a polling booth captioned "Mandem Mobilize"; Corbyn has unlocked a new demographic. Lets hope he can build on it.

Itssoeasy

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Kensington says differently

Canterbury had been conservative since Churchill was a youngfella in 1918.

Jamiekelly

The DUP social media and politician's accounts are being flooded with gay and lesbian GIF's. It's amazing how effective people can be when they hate someone with such positivity. Arlene might have a heart attack.

Itssoeasy

Eamonn Mallie is on CNN talking about the election. He doesn't look like he sounds.

Itssoeasy

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The DUP social media and politician's accounts are being flooded with gay and lesbian GIF's. It's amazing how effective people can be when they hate someone with such positivity. Arlene might have a heart attack.

Yeah their views aren't going to sit well with a lot of the uk electorate. I mean if your only option to keep you going in government is to need the DUP is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

ThisRegard

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The DUP social media and politician's accounts are being flooded with gay and lesbian GIF's. It's amazing how effective people can be when they hate someone with such positivity. Arlene might have a heart attack.

Did you catch this brilliant (pains me to say it) question by Kay Burley?
https://twitter.com/me_stafford/status/873209534885617664

A Little Pony

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The DUP social media and politician's accounts are being flooded with gay and lesbian GIF's. It's amazing how effective people can be when they hate someone with such positivity. Arlene might have a heart attack.

None of them will care.
But people should think about it a bit more. This is a short term thing, it is just to buy her time and keep the government on it's feet. That is all. People shouldn't look into it that much. The DUP won't be propping up the Tories for anything like 5 years.

A Little Pony

blanch152 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the DUP worked together for years. English people need to get over it frankly. Starting to think some elements within England don't want those 'paddies' ruling over them.

I have a lot of sympathy for the view that the DUP are unsuitable for governance in London. It is very similar to the stance being taken by many that SF are unsuitable for governance in Dublin. I don't think you can support one and oppose the other.

They have been in charge of the Assembly together in the North and if one is suitable/unsuitable (delete according to your view) for governing in a full democracy, then the other is too.

DUP and Sinn Fein are parties with mandates. I don't like Sinn Fein, never will but people vote for them. 

They are both entitled to run for elections in the UK and the ROI. I can understand many people don't like either of them but it is NOT the DUP's fault that they are in this position.
The Tories are the largest party and for now it makes the most sense.

blanch152

FTA69 wrote: »

Next Tory voter who whinges to me about Corbyn and the IRA is getting a slap.

EDIT; forgot we weren't in the cafe.

On a serious note; this lays bare the total and utter hypocrisy behind the Conservative party. They spent weeks flogging some dead IRA horse (while arming the Saudis) and then jump into a party with extensive paramilitary links in order to save their own skin. Make no mistake, this won't last. The stories are in disarray and all of those decrying Labour can observe the fact that they got the highest vote since 1997.

Once May makes a pig's arse out of Brexit Labour will be quid's in. A sea changed has occurred and its great to see. I saw a photo earlier of lads from my boxing club in Wood Green outside a polling booth captioned "Mandem Mobilize"; Corbyn has unlocked a new demographic. Lets hope he can build on it.

Do you have any evidence that there are current "extensive paramilitary links" or are you referring to some historical event?

Either way, do you agree that any party with extensive paramilitary links in say living memory (40 years) is unsuitable for government?

Gbear

PeadarCo wrote: »

That's true if votes are evenly distributed between 10 seats and theres a 51 49 split between two parties a 2% would see 100% of seats changes. The thing about the UK is that there are alot of safe seats.

Part of the drilling down you'd have to do is to look at the before and after of those seats.

If all the seats Labour gained were marginal, this doesn't mean much.
If they were all Tory strongholds, or were another party, that's another thing.

Similarly, the Tory's made a lot of gains in Scotland, but does that mean anything positive for their status UK at large?

LuckyLloyd

Right2Write wrote: »

One thing is for sure, the SF goose in NI is well and truly cooked for the immediate future. They have some hard thinking to do, no easy road anymore.

You've spent all day penning Sinn Feinn's political epitaph the day after they garnered more Westminster seats than ever before hot on the heels from their best Assembly election performance to date. You may personally hate SF, but there is no electoral data to support the claims you have spouted in your posts on this thread all day sir.

Inquitus

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You've spent all day penning Sinn Feinn's political epitaph the day after they garnered more Westminster seats than ever before hot on the heels from their best Assembly election performance to date. You may personally hate SF, but there is no electoral data to support the claims you have spouted in your posts on this thread all day sir.

I am no Shinner, and I am not a big fan of SF by any means, but you are entirely correct, SF have had their best result ever in the Westminster elections, it simply not possible for them to have done any better at this point in time.