2017 UK General Election - 8th June

Professor Moriarty

From the Torygraph. Seven things you might not know about the DUP. Makes them look like a party of dinosaurs.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

From the Torygraph. Seven things you might not know about the DUP. Makes them look like a party of dinosaurs.

It it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck.....

flatty

Fwiw, I was working in England today. I have a lovely classy colleague there, who came up to me and said she had never really been aware of the DUP, and had hence done some research.
Visibly upset, she said, and I quote, "but they're nothing but thugs and criminals".
Teresa May isn't a normal , rational person imho.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

So it's now in SF power to prevent the DUP wagging the dog in a brexit coalition.

Serious test of their dedication here imo.

No test at all. The policy of abstentionism dates back to at least 1904.

The clue is in their name

The upcoming boundary changes mean that the next election may give them another two seats, unless May crashes and burns , and then SF won't be shedding tears.

Jayop

ThisRegard wrote: »

Did you catch this brilliant (pains me to say it) question by Kay Burley?
https://twitter.com/me_stafford/status/873209534885617664

Absolute cracker. She should have pulled him up when he said that none of those would be in the queens speech that it's OK then for the people of NI to have to put up with such bigoted people.

BorneTobyWilde

No one wants to leave EU, They just want it reformed

Jayop

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

No test at all. The policy of abstentionism dates back to at least 1904.

The clue is in their name

The upcoming boundary changes mean that the next election may give them another two seats, unless May crashes and burns , and then SF won't be shedding tears.

Have you any links about the Boundary change? Not heard this.

Capt'n Midnight

seamus wrote: »

Worth noting that the DUP going in as the junior partner / minority partner are pretty much guaranteed to take a hammering at the next elections - council, assembly and general.

SF might be looking the other way in the expectation that they'll become the majority party in NI politics in the coming months.

My Favourite quote in the comments. https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/06/09/a-deal-reached-may-going-to-the-palace/

I fear the DUP are about to have the spotlight shone on them like never before. People in Britain who have never heard of them or Mrs Foster are busy Googling them and seem to be recoiling in horror, if social media is anything to go by. This will be very interesting indeed.

But the DUP core voters aren't going to be all that different to Conservatives, but expect NI pensions and fuel allowances to be kept. Can the torys afford an RHI bail out ?

Hotblack Desiato

blanch152 wrote: »

There is a difference between a "hard border" and a "hard Brexit".

The only way to have a hard Brexit and no hard border is if NI stays within the customs union and freedom of movement. But DUP have ruled out any special status for NI.

A hard border won't be up to us or the UK, it'll be the EU insisting on it the same as they do with Poland-Belarus etc.

It'll look like the Berlin Wall in a few years (minus the minefields, hopefully) if the Tories keep going the way they are.

The economy of NI will completely implode before it gets to that stage, which could be a good thing if it forces a saner solution

As far as SF are concerned, 'worse is better'. The worse things get in NI the more attractive a UI looks. It's not in their interest to achieve a softer Brexit, whatever they say about it. It's not in their interest to get Stormont running again. Worse is better.

Professor Moriarty

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

No one wants to leave EU, They just want it reformed

Right. So all that needs to happen is that the EU is reformed according to the wishes of the British and we'll all live happily ever after.

Capt'n Midnight

Jayop wrote: »

Have you any links about the Boundary change? Not heard this.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2016/03/09/the-17-new-constituencies/

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

I agree completely with you on that.

It is compounded by the blind and stupid Sinn Fein representatives who put their selfish boycott above the requirement to dilute the Tory/DUP majority as much as possible.

No SDLP represention in Westminster for this forthcoming parliament.....

A Little Pony

Jayop wrote: »

ThisRegard wrote: »

Did you catch this brilliant (pains me to say it) question by Kay Burley?
https://twitter.com/me_stafford/status/873209534885617664

Absolute cracker. She should have pulled him up when he said that none of those would be in the queens speech that it's OK then for the people of NI to have to put up with such bigoted people.

But again the DUP put a manifesto or views out to an electorate, hundreds of thousands of people vote for them. They don't have to put up with anything. The people get the government/parties they deserve. People in NI vote for Sinn Fein and the DUP because they reflect either the personal views or just the view they have on the constitutional question.

Kay Burley couldn't hide her bias either but at least it was open I suppose.

First Up

BorneTobyWilde wrote:

No one wants to leave EU, They just want it reformed

I think you might have missed a bit.

prinzeugen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

.

It'll look like the Berlin Wall in a few years (minus the minefields, hopefully) if the Tories keep going the way they are.
.

And the UK will resemble the East side of it if Corbyn ever gets in power.

FTA69

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that there are current "extensive paramilitary links" or are you referring to some historical event?

Either way, do you agree that any party with extensive paramilitary links in say living memory (40 years) is unsuitable for government?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/10/29/news/arlene-foster-has-no-regrets-over-being-pictured-with-a-uda-commander-760193/

Here's our good mate Arlene pictured smiling away happily with Dee Sitt, a senior member of the proscribed UDA and employee of a Loyalist community group she has sought funding for. The UDA also endorsed the DUP in these elections, although the DUP are now busy saying they don't condone that. Came out of nowhere. So it did.

Likewise the DUP and its leaders have had associations with the UVF, Third Force and also Ulster Resistance which actually imported weapons into Ireland from apartheid South Africa.

Even if you don't feel like discussing the glaring hypocrisy about the Tories jumping into bed with people close to death squads we could just concentrate on the fact they're a troglodyte shower of nasty reactionary bigots?

Hotblack Desiato

prinzeugen wrote: »

And the UK will resemble the East side of it if Corbyn ever gets in power.

The Tories are bringing about a hard Brexit which will do more economic damage than Corbyn ever could.

I'm old enough to remember Michael Foot and the '83 manifesto and Corbyn's was nothing like that.

devnull

Jayop wrote: »

Absolute cracker. She should have pulled him up when he said that none of those would be in the queens speech that it's OK then for the people of NI to have to put up with such bigoted people.

I'm nowhere near Burley's biggest fan either.

However one thing I always have to say about her, is that no interviewee will ever get the better of her, she will ask many questions that others simply won't touch and isn't frightened of a confrontation or to take people on when they are spouting bull**** or avoiding the question.

You can see from the other guy laughing in that video, that he knows Burley has just asked the Tory a corker but if you go on with Burley you should expect that, she'll cut right to the chase and takes no prisoners.

Rjd2

What a truly disgusting women Theresa May is.

https://twitter.com/montie/status/873285673683496965

A Little Pony

FTA69 wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that there are current "extensive paramilitary links" or are you referring to some historical event?

Either way, do you agree that any party with extensive paramilitary links in say living memory (40 years) is unsuitable for government?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/10/29/news/arlene-foster-has-no-regrets-over-being-pictured-with-a-uda-commander-760193/

Here's our good mate Arlene pictured smiling away happily with Dee Sitt, a senior member of the proscribed UDA and employee of a Loyalist community group she has sought funding for. The UDA also endorsed the DUP in these elections, although the DUP are now busy saying they don't condone that. Came out of nowhere. So it did.

Likewise the DUP and its leaders have had associations with the UVF, Third Force and also Ulster Resistance which actually imported weapons into Ireland from apartheid South Africa.

Even if you don't feel like discussing the glaring hypocrisy about the Tories jumping into bed with people close to death squads we could just concentrate on the fact they're a troglodyte shower of nasty reactionary bigots?

So if Sinn Fein were in a position that the only way to get a government arranged for now was to go into coalition or supply and demand arrangement with FG you would be opposed to it?

Hotblack Desiato

I don't think any sitting DUP MPs ever collected a police officer's killers from prison. It's more than a bit much to go on about alleged paramilitary links with the biggest party in NI when the second biggest is an offshoot of a paramilitary organisation. A pox on both their houses. It's a shame NI politics has gone the way it has, things seem to be getting closer to some sort of endgame there but it'll get very ugly before it does.

devnull

It suggests what Adam Boulton was saying earlier is correct in relation to May essentially not being in a position where she can make decisions in her own party and the backbenchers are running the show because of her lack of mandate and weak standing in both government and her own party.

She is trying to hang on but at the moment I can't see it lasting long, she has no authority in her party as backed up by the cancelled reshuffle and the fact she's being forced to dance to the tune of back benchers who most likely will pull the trigger on her if they don't get what they want.

Whilst May is the leader of the party in official capacity, it appears that she is powerless to make any decision and essentially is being told by her colleagues to do as they say or go.

prinzeugen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The Tories are bringing about a hard Brexit which will do more economic damage than Corbyn ever could.

I'm old enough to remember Michael Foot and the '83 manifesto and Corbyn's was nothing like that.

As am I but most of the younger voters that went and voted for Corbyn have no idea what a little socialist utopia would really be like.

Rjd2

devnull wrote: »

It suggests what Adam Boulton was saying earlier is correct in relation to May essentially not being in a position where she can make decisions in her own party and the backbenchers are running the show because of her lack of mandate and weak standing in both government and her own party.

She is trying to hang on but at the moment I can't see it lasting long, she has no authority in her party as backed up by the cancelled reshuffle and the fact she's being forced to dance to the tune of back benchers who most likely will pull the trigger on her if they don't get what they want.

Looking at the right wing press they are fuming with her, they want her head. She will need to be very tough to stand up to this, Johnson and Give supposedly plotting to replace her. Top of the iceberg.

Hotblack Desiato

prinzeugen wrote: »

As am I but most of the younger voters that went and voted for Corbyn have no idea what a little socialist utopia would really be like.

Nationalising BR and the Royal Mail is hardly Cuba or North Korea.

whatawaster81

At the stage where you need the DUP any right thinking person can tell you, this won't last long.

FTA69

A Little Pony wrote: »

So if Sinn Fein were in a position that the only way to get a government arranged for now was to go into coalition or supply and demand arrangement with FG you would be opposed to it?

100% I would. Look what happened to Irish Labour when they did that very thing. Part of the reason SF have been so successful is because they've refused to prop up rightwing austerity parties.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

So if Sinn Fein were in a position that the only way to get a government arranged for now was to go into coalition or supply and demand arrangement with FG you would be opposed to it?

SF don't pretend they didn't play a part in the conflict. That is the difference here. They have members who were in the IRA.
They are also not religious fundamentalists depriving large amounts of people of the rights they have everywhere else in these islands.

Different animals and the British are finding that out, big time. Arlene shoots herself and her party in the foot again.

I hope Ruth Davidson exposes them for everything they are.

devnull

It's ridiculous that she tries to carry on, she has no authority within her own party let alone in a government and with the EU, she just looks like she is deluded and is hanging onto power at all costs.

She's essentially operating with a cabinet she wanted to kick her Chancellor out of, and make other senior leadership changes, but had to call it off because she cannot afford to annoy a single member of her team as they could well end up being a ring leader of a coup attempt.

In the National interest of the UK she should resign and put the country before her own pathetic grip to hold onto power and not let go of it. The public don't want her, her own party don't want her, even the Daily Mail is turning on her from what I have just seen.

It is laughable that she is leading a party and making decisions she doesn't even think are good for the country or her own party, but does so to hang onto her job for as long as possible. It's essentially willful dereliction of duty.

prinzeugen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Nationalising BR and the Royal Mail is hardly Cuba or North Korea.

As I have said elsewhere on boards, renationalisation of BR will cost billions and Billions unless they are planning some sort of 1917 Russia style seizure of assets.

Where is the money going to come from?

Professor Moriarty

prinzeugen wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere on boards, renationalisation of BR will cost billions and Billions unless they are planning some sort of 1917 Russia style seizure of assets.

Where is the money going to come from?

From very rich people who don't need it.

Sam Russell

prinzeugen wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere on boards, renationalisation of BR will cost billions and Billions unless they are planning some sort of 1917 Russia style seizure of assets.

Where is the money going to come from?

The railways are already in national ownership. The rolling stock is not.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Less of the funny pics, please.

Annabella1

So many weirdos in the DUP
Would be a disaster for Tories

blanch152

FTA69 wrote: »

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/10/29/news/arlene-foster-has-no-regrets-over-being-pictured-with-a-uda-commander-760193/

Here's our good mate Arlene pictured smiling away happily with Dee Sitt, a senior member of the proscribed UDA and employee of a Loyalist community group she has sought funding for. The UDA also endorsed the DUP in these elections, although the DUP are now busy saying they don't condone that. Came out of nowhere. So it did.

Likewise the DUP and its leaders have had associations with the UVF, Third Force and also Ulster Resistance which actually imported weapons into Ireland from apartheid South Africa.

Even if you don't feel like discussing the glaring hypocrisy about the Tories jumping into bed with people close to death squads we could just concentrate on the fact they're a troglodyte shower of nasty reactionary bigots?

Thanks for that, wasn't aware of it.

Helps to confirm me in my opinion that SF and the DUP are cut from the same cloth. Your whole post has shades of the good republican comments from Gerry Adams and the activities of various SF public representatives from Dowdall to Ferris.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Thanks for that, wasn't aware of it.

Helps to confirm me in my opinion that SF and the DUP are cut from the same cloth. Your whole post has shades of the good republican comments from Gerry Adams and the activities of various SF public representatives from Dowdall to Ferris.

SF and the DUP are from the same conflict/war. Which is over.
The difference is that SF do not hide that or climb onto the high moral ground.
They are also not religious fundamentalists attempting to force their beliefs on everyone.

The British have been enthralled all day by the introduction to these people who claim to be the same as them. They aren't, they are unique.

prinzeugen

Sam Russell wrote: »

The railways are already in national ownership. The rolling stock is not.

About 80% of the infrastructure is state owned (Network Rail) and DRS is in effect owned by the state as its a subsidiary of British Nuclear Fuels.

Everything else is privately owned. I think it would be just over £1 billion to buy the stock used south of the Thames for example.

A Dub in Glasgo

prinzeugen wrote: »

About 80% of the infrastructure is state owned (Network Rail) and DRS is in effect owned by the state as its a subsidiary of British Nuclear Fuels.

and as you already know, DRS run no passenger services

LuckyLloyd

devnull wrote: »

It's ridiculous that she tries to carry on, she has no authority within her own party let alone in a government and with the EU, she just looks like she is deluded and is hanging onto power at all costs.

She's essentially operating with a cabinet she wanted to kick her Chancellor out of, and make other senior leadership changes, but had to call it off because she cannot afford to annoy a single member of her team as they could well end up being a ring leader of a coup attempt.

In the National interest of the UK she should resign and put the country before her own pathetic grip to hold onto power and not let go of it. The public don't want her, her own party don't want her, even the Daily Mail is turning on her from what I have just seen.

It is laughable that she is leading a party and making decisions she doesn't even think are good for the country or her own party, but does so to hang onto her job for as long as possible. It's essentially willful dereliction of duty.

You are correct, but she's been in politics for over three decades and has just scaled the mountaintop - if she gives up here (and you have very ably articulated why she should do so) then it's all over. She imagined that her calling this election would herald a minimum of five years of glorious reign, buttressed by a sympathetic and supportive press and a jingoistic national mood. That's all over now, and she's obviously still processing it all.

She'll never be allowed fight another election so we enter an unseemly period where she staggers around mortally wounded before the death of her political career is confirmed. One thing that's worth thinking about is how it may be beneficial for Boris or whoever else is sharpening the knives to allow a few weeks of the restarted negotiations to take place with its accompanying negative messages before they take over. Whoever comes in will have to fight an election in the medium term so it may be no harm to allow May absorb some more of the coming damage before her political corpse is discarded.

prinzeugen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

and as you already know, DRS run no passenger services

As I have already pointed out to you, they do. They have an open access operation license and run passenger trains for the workers at Sellafield.

The also run, provide all train crew and rolling stock for loco hauled services on ScotRail and Northern.

And anyway.. Corbyn is going for all the companies including freight.

He must still be reeling that his sitting on the floor of a Virgin train was proved to be staged.

Dont be at yourself

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

She'll never be allowed fight another election so we enter an unseemly period where she staggers around mortally wounded before the death of her political career is confirmed. One thing that's worth thinking about is how it may be beneficial for Boris or whoever else is sharpening the knives to allow a few weeks of the restarted negotiations to take place with its accompanying negative messages before they take over. Whoever comes in will have to fight an election in the medium term so it may be no harm to allow May absorb some more of the coming damage before her political corpse is discarded.

A great point. If I were a Tory planning a heave, I would allow May take the bullets on the initial points the EU insists be agreed upon; the divorce bill, the fate of EU nationals living in U.K., and the Irish border. She'll likely have to concede ground on all three (ironically the DUP will be somewhat aligned with the EU regarding the border issue), so it makes sense to let her take the fall for those, and have Boris or another swoop in to 'rescue' the Brexit negotiations.

A Dub in Glasgo

prinzeugen wrote: »

As I have already pointed out to you, they do.

and as I have already explained to you, they are contracted to do that by private passenger operators

DRS are a freight movement company and provide minor lease out locos/coaches

prinzeugen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

and as I have already explained to you, they are contracted to do that by private passenger operators

DRS are a freight movement company and provide minor lease out locos/coaches

And train crew. They could not run trains if they were not a passenger operator.

Hotblack Desiato

Lordy. Perhaps we can we agree that having a nationalised rail system is normal in many capitalist countries and leave it at that. Same for the postal system. Corbyn's proposed Britain doesn't seem any more socialist or statist than Ireland is right now.

A Dub in Glasgo

prinzeugen wrote: »

And train crew. They could not run trains if they were not a passenger operator.

You seem to either ignore or are ignorant of the requirements to run passenger services. Not any two bit company can loco up and run them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_operating_trains_in_the_United_Kingdom

Hotblack Desiato

What's funny in retrospect is that even Maggie Thatcher was willing to pour billions of pounds of taxpayers' money into British Leyland (fearful of a couple of hundred thousand job losses) and didn't privatise British Rail. The former withered on the vine once state support was finally withdrawn, circa 1986, the latter was only privatised following Major's unexpected 1992 election win. Maggie went a lot more right wing after she died.

prinzeugen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You seem to either ignore or are ignorant of the requirements to run passenger services. Not any two bit company can loco up and run them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_operating_trains_in_the_United_Kingdom

You must read on the difference between franchise and operator.

Was Hull trains, or Grand Central franchises?

No. Open access. Own the stock and run trains. You should go away read about it.

Also the neutral livery is becoming the norm. GWR, Overground, ScotRail, are all doing it.

Virgin east coast will be the last.

Persephone kindness

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF don't pretend they didn't play a part in the conflict. That is the difference here. They have members who were in the IRA.
They are also not religious fundamentalists depriving large amounts of people of the rights they have everywhere else in these islands.

Different animals and the British are finding that out, big time. Arlene shoots herself and her party in the foot again.

I hope Ruth Davidson exposes them for everything they are.

This they are both awful ..but not the same. I just hope no one feels now that it's ok to support anyone. It just seems there are no standards now. And no integrity.

I want parties here to keep their promise about not going into govt with SF.

Just because this has happened we don't have to make it worse.

Persephone kindness

A Little Pony wrote: »

So if Sinn Fein were in a position that the only way to get a government arranged for now was to go into coalition or supply and demand arrangement with FG you would be opposed to it?

Personally yes. I know you were not asking me. I am disgusted with May as much as any of you. But I would be against it.

Persephone kindness

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You've spent all day penning Sinn Feinn's political epitaph the day after they garnered more Westminster seats than ever before hot on the heels from their best Assembly election performance to date. You may personally hate SF, but there is no electoral data to support the claims you have spouted in your posts on this thread all day sir.

Politics is not always about voting. It's about relationships and diplomacy. The nature of diplomatic relationships in NI means something diff for SF.

Their followers and support will be demanding they take a stance. I am very very worried.