2017 UK General Election - 8th June

solodeogloria

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This 'hounded' word again.
Was Corbyn 'hounded' before the election?

Good afternoon,

Not hounded about his religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Farron was very clear. Even in his speech that he supports championing the rights of all. If you read it all rather than quote mining you'll see that his concern wasn't whether or not he could govern impartially but that people were unjustifiably suspicious of him by virtue of his beliefs and that this meant that society had a long way to go in order for it to be truly liberal.

I'm sad that intolerance has led to him feeling that he shouldn't lead a political party. We shouldn't be saying that it isn't OK for someone to be an evangelical Christian and lead a political party.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Sam Russell

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This 'hounded' word again.
Was Corbyn 'hounded' before the election?

Certainly by Paxman who waved the little red book in his face.

Enzokk

blanch152 wrote: »

It only matters whether he believes gay sex should be illegal.

It is a matter of fact that for a Catholic, gay sex is a sin, the Church has said so. You can't be a Catholic and believe otherwise, but lots of things are sins. Coveting your neighbour's wife is a sin, but do you think they can outlaw that?

All you can do is take what he believes and how he has voted in the past. This taken into consideration with his own statement that he feels he cannot be Christian and leader of the Liberal Democrats.

A better, wiser person than me may have been able to deal with this more successfully, to have remained faithful to Christ while leading a political party in the current environment.

He feels he cannot remain faithful to Christ while leading a political party in the current climate. What climate is this? Where you are not supposed to think gay sex is a sin? We are only about 75 years from men being chemically castrated for being homosexual yet I believe most of us realize that was a ridiculous law and treatment of innocent men.

I mean there are rules for how to treat your slaves in the Bible. As a modern society we have to be careful what we choose to believe as part of our faith. Some sections of the Bible in a few years may seem as ridiculous as slavery in 40 years as well.

FrancieBrady

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good afternoon,

Not hounded about his religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Farron was very clear. Even in his speech that he supports championing the rights of all. If you read it all rather than quote mining you'll see that his concern wasn't whether or not he could govern impartially but that people were unjustifiably suspicious of him by virtue of his beliefs and that this meant that society had a long way to go in order for it to be truly liberal.

I'm sad that intolerance has led to him feeling that he shouldn't lead a political party. We shouldn't be saying that it isn't OK for someone to be an evangelical Christian and lead a political party.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

What does the word 'hounded' mean? Is it any different to the rigour other leaders got?
Would you be incredulous because Corbyn resigned because of the treatment he got?

Hounded is such a loaded term. It usually means rigous inquiry with some vitriol. One has to say, big deal.

LeinsterDub

Enzokk wrote: »

Some sections of the Bible in a few years may seem as ridiculous as slavery in 40 years as well.

Only some ? Maybe in a other 40 years after that it will all be viewed as ridiculous.

ArmaniJeanss

A Little Pony wrote: »

No chance. That would be 'Islamophobia', can't afford to unleash the wrath.

You can't have followed the London mayoral campaign then - the ZacGoldsmith/Crosby Tory campaign didn't pull any punches with (Muslim) Sadiq Khan. Whilst there wasn't an LGBT issue (Khan had a liberal voting record on the issue) they attacked him on alleged brown racism, terrorist sympathising etc. Any weakness on 'social' issues would have been pounced upon.

Once there's an election and power at stake then theres absolutely no limits.

Leroy42

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good afternoon,

Not hounded about his religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Farron was very clear. Even in his speech that he supports championing the rights of all. If you read it all rather than quote mining you'll see that his concern wasn't whether or not he could govern impartially but that people were unjustifiably suspicious of him by virtue of his beliefs and that this meant that society had a long way to go in order for it to be truly liberal.

I'm sad that intolerance has led to him feeling that he shouldn't lead a political party. We shouldn't be saying that it isn't OK for someone to be an evangelical Christian and lead a political party.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

I would say that people are quite justifiably suspicious based on his religious beliefs. Religious beliefs have a bit of a history you might recall.

devnull

Gerry Adams holding a press conference outside Downing Street

That's something I never expected to see.

blanch152

devnull wrote: »

Gerry Adams holding a press conference outside Downing Street

That's something I never expected to see.

Can't find any mention of it on the main BBC website. They have a story about Prince Harry visiting the Borough market though.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-london-40284326/prince-harry-visits-re-opened-borough-market

It isn't on the front page of RTE either. Is it getting publicity anywhere?

devnull

It was on Sky News, he was there with three fellow party members including the Stourmont Leader.

Enzokk

So I guess the Tories will have to cozy up to the Libdems to form the government.



https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/875383033578135552

wes

Enzokk wrote: »

So I guess the Tories will have to cozy up to the Libdems to form the government.



https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/875383033578135552

So Sinn Fein may have save the UK from the DUP being part of there government .

A Little Pony

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

No chance. That would be 'Islamophobia', can't afford to unleash the wrath.

You can't have followed the London mayoral campaign then - the ZacGoldsmith/Crosby Tory campaign didn't pull any punches with (Muslim) Sadiq Khan. Whilst there wasn't an LGBT issue (Khan had a liberal voting record on the issue) they attacked him on alleged brown racism, terrorist sympathising etc. Any weakness on 'social' issues would have been pounced upon.

Once there's an election and power at stake then theres absolutely no limits.

Actually that proves the point even more. Tim Farron has a great record on LGBT voting issues. Go look at it. And yet was constantly getting questioned on his own personal views. He put his personal held beliefs when voting but was getting grilled by agenda driven journalists for his own personal beliefs despite his voting record. 

Basically saying to Tim he should not be allowed to hold such views. If he came out and said he thought gay sex was a sin what would the response be? Would the journalists or TV presenters just leave it at that? No, they would hound the guy to near death for having the audacity of having personal views even if you don't like those views.

blanch152

Enzokk wrote: »

So I guess the Tories will have to cozy up to the Libdems to form the government.



https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/875383033578135552

So the Tory/DUP deal is off then, thanks to Gerry saving the day!

A Little Pony

blanch152 wrote: »

Enzokk wrote: »

So I guess the Tories will have to cozy up to the Libdems to form the government.



https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/875383033578135552

So the Tory/DUP deal is off then, thanks to Gerry saving the day!

Well the deal is as good as done from what I have seen on it. It will probably be announced soon. Theresa May has no choice if she wants to remain Prime Minister for any decent length of time.

Enzokk

A Little Pony wrote: »

Actually that proves the point even more. Tim Farron has a great record on LGBT voting issues. Go look at it. And yet was constantly getting questioned on his own personal views. He put his personal held beliefs when voting but was getting grilled by agenda driven journalists for his own personal beliefs despite his voting record. 

Basically saying to Tim he should not be allowed to hold such views. If he came out and said he thought gay sex was a sin what would the response be? Would the journalists or TV presenters just leave it at that? No, they would hound the guy to near death for having the audacity of having personal views even if you don't like those views.

He has a good record, not spotless. He voted against the equality act so he would have gladly allowed discrimination on providing services to people on their sexuality. Now whether he wanted a amendment and when it wasn't allowed he thought, feck it lets just allow people to discriminate because one amendment didn't get in. He could have just abstained, but no he voted against it.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well the deal is as good as done from what I have seen on it. It will probably be announced soon. Theresa May has no choice if she wants to remain Prime Minister for any decent length of time.

Who would like to be Theresa May now. Go in government with the DUP and risk the GFA falling apart or go with a minority government. Another Conservative choice where they have the country or their own interests competing against each other, I wonder which one they will choose this time...

wes

RTE News has a story on this now:

Sinn Féin accuses May of breaching Good Friday Agreement


Can Sinn Fein threaten legal action of May goes ahead with the DUP deal? I would think they are stupid enough to do so, and risk peace in the North, as we have seen that the Tory's put party above anything and everything else.

Brexit is imho a real self inflicted disaster for the UK.

FrancieBrady

wes wrote: »

RTE News has a story on this now:

Sinn Féin accuses May of breaching Good Friday Agreement


Can Sinn Fein threaten legal action of May goes ahead with the DUP deal? I would think they are stupid enough to do so, and risk peace in the North, as we have seen that the Tory's put party above anything and everything else.

Brexit is imho a real self inflicted disaster for the UK.

So if it is a breach of the Agreement, that move (Tory's getting into bed with the DUP) wouldn't threaten stability in Ireland and is the first wrong and stupid move?

devnull

May is a really terrible leader, the fact that she has barely been seen in relation to the London Tower Fire and has stayed well away from the center of what is going on.

JI ust saw Sadiq Kahn face the press and be in the middle of a massive scrum of residents, community people, and families of missing people and victims etc, talking to people and answering questions with quite a lot of abuse and suchlike .

Whilst he's getting a lot of hate, the fact he's answering questions and not avoiding anyone and going out to the front-line and meeting with people whilst the Prime Minister goes nowhere near is damning about May.

The sooner a leadership challenge the better, she is anything but a leader and is leading the UK down a very dangerous path and Ireland too with the threats to the GFA.

Enzokk

devnull wrote: »

May is a really terrible leader, the fact that she has barely been seen in relation to the London Tower Fire and has stayed well away from the center of what is going on.

JI ust saw Sadiq Kahn face the press and be in the middle of a massive scrum of residents, community people, and families of missing people and victims etc, talking to people and answering questions with quite a lot of abuse and suchlike .

Whilst he's getting a lot of hate, the fact he's answering questions and not avoiding anyone and going out to the front-line and meeting with people whilst the Prime Minister goes nowhere near is damning about May.

The sooner a leadership challenge the better, she is anything but a leader and is leading the UK down a very dangerous path and Ireland too with the threats to the GFA.

But who can take over? Boris Johnson will be tainted by the Grenfell fire as he was Mayor when they cut all those fire fighters. Now while that probably didn't have an effect on the end result, that clip of him and his snarky reply about the numbers of fire fighters in London could not have come at a worse time. I think his bufoonish persona will not go down well with people that are suffering due to years of austerity.

BoatMad

Enzokk wrote: »

But who can take over? Boris Johnson will be tainted by the Grenfell fire as he was Mayor when they cut all those fire fighters. Now while that probably didn't have an effect on the end result, that clip of him and his snarky reply about the numbers of fire fighters in London could not have come at a worse time. I think his bufoonish persona will not go down well with people that are suffering due to years of austerity.

David Davis seems the likely front runner

Ruth Davidson might be a dark horse

Enzokk

BoatMad wrote: »

David Davis seems the likely front runner

Ruth Davidson might be a dark horse

Whoever it is will have the same problem that May had, they weren't elected by the electorate but by the party. So their personal manifesto is not what people voted for. There is no way the Tories will call another election as it looks certain they will lose it (although it looked certain for Labour to lose seats in the previous election).

BoatMad

Enzokk wrote: »

Whoever it is will have the same problem that May had, they weren't elected by the electorate but by the party. So their personal manifesto is not what people voted for. There is no way the Tories will call another election as it looks certain they will lose it (although it looked certain for Labour to lose seats in the previous election).

doesnt matter, current Gov will not last till Brexit date anyway , too many divisions in Tories over hard/soft, party will now eat itself

Enzokk

BoatMad wrote: »

doesnt matter, current Gov will not last till Brexit date anyway , too many divisions in Tories over hard/soft, party will now eat itself

Having made decisions that favour party over country over the EU referendum and this past election and allowing for austerity for this long, some might just say it is their just reward.

BoatMad

Enzokk wrote: »

Having made decisions that favour party over country over the EU referendum and this past election and allowing for austerity for this long, some might just say it is their just reward.

indeed, I fully expect that Comrade Corbyn and Comrade Sturgeon may have the last laugh here

FTA69

BoatMad wrote: »

David Davis seems the likely front runner

Ruth Davidson might be a dark horse

Davidson isn't an MP.

-aside-

Does the GFA effectively preclude any parties in NI being in Government?

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

-aside-

Does the GFA effectively preclude any parties in NI being in Government?

No, I would imagine the case will be made that Britain can not be an honest broker if the government is in debt to a party for power.

A Little Pony

http://news.sky.com/story/conservative-dup-agreement-due-next-week-10916703?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Great deal for free masons and all who belong in the international conspiracy of Orangism.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

-aside-

Does the GFA effectively preclude any parties in NI being in Government?

No, I would imagine the case will be made that Britain can not be an honest broker if the government is in debt to a party for power.

I have always felt a Brazilian or a Russian or some random country should hold those talks if real impartiality is to be applied.

BoatMad

FTA69 wrote: »

Davidson isn't an MP.

I know, but easily sorted and i expect quite soon too

BoatMad

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I would imagine the case will be made that Britain can not be an honest broker if the government is in debt to a party for power.

I see so they irish Government should collapse the GFA if SF get into power in the Republic !!

Sam Russell

BoatMad wrote: »

I know, but easily sorted and i expect quite soon too

Do the Tories have a safe seat in Scotland?

Do they have many safe seats now anywhere, like Kensington?

BoatMad

Sam Russell wrote: »

Do the Tories have a safe seat in Scotland?

Do they have many safe seats now anywhere, like Kensington?

for Davidson , making her an MP would be easy , even if the twinset and pearls in the Tory party would have a heart attack ( thats more the problem )

I do think the SNP will regain a few seats in Scotland, but equally I think remainers in the south may not stay with labour,

we shall see, people vent and then drift back to their traditional loyalties ( see FF here )

A Dub in Glasgo

BoatMad wrote: »

Ruth Davidson might be a dark horse

Davidson is an opportunistic who courted the sectarian vote and rarely gets questioned in the media as she is an ex BBC reporter

A Dub in Glasgo

FTA69 wrote: »

Davidson isn't an MP.

Failed abysmally on two occasions

FrancieBrady

BoatMad wrote: »

I see so they irish Government should collapse the GFA if SF get into power in the Republic !!

What?

Nobody is talking about collapsing anything. You seem to not be aware of what the GFA is nor for that matter the Irish governments role in northern Ireland. But carry on regardless.

Rjd2

Sam Russell wrote: »

Do the Tories have a safe seat in Scotland?

Do they have many safe seats now anywhere, like Kensington?

They still got most seats and plenty of majorities.

Reading the likes of Guido Fawkes and other conservative think tanks, it was a horrible campaign. They targeted marginal seats and somewhat neglected supposedly safe seats. Supposedly they had MPS campaigning in those close seats rather than in their own on the day of the election which turned out to be a stroke of genius:p

The problem The Tories have is they know they can't win an election with May as she she is useless with the public, no charisma, a coward and cliche central.

Today was an example where after that tragic fire, Corbyn went and consoled people, while May hid and chatted with the police. I know she would likely have been hammered, but people want to see emotion and she failed. Another win for Jez.

So what can they do? They need to find someone who can beat Jez in an election. Johnson is the bookies favourite and he has some attractive qualities. He has charisma, was twice elected London Mayor and played a huge role in Brexit.

However I suspect his time may have passed, and he is loathed by many due to his absurd gaffs and "free 350 million":pac:

The other favourites in the betting are Hammond, Davis and Javid. They are all really bland and won't excite anyone.

Then after that you have Rudd who barely held her seat.:pac:

Osborne would have been a safe pair of hands but is busy elsewhere and Davidson is not even an MP.

The Tories have a serious issue, they have nobody they can point at with much confidence who can beat Jezza with his box of treats.

Rjd2

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader


The betting for next Tory leader. That should terrify their base. Either incredibly polarising like Johnson or charisma free like Hammond and Davis.

They may have to think outside the box because many of those listed are not beating Jez.

Enzokk

Rjd2 wrote: »

They still got most seats and plenty of majorities.

Reading the likes of Guido Fawkes and other conservative think tanks, it was a horrible campaign. They targeted marginal seats and somewhat neglected supposedly safe seats. Supposedly they had MPS campaigning in those close seats rather than in their own on the day of the election which turned out to be a stroke of genius:p

The problem The Tories have is they know they can't win an election with May as she she is useless with the public, no charisma, a coward and cliche central.

Today was an example where after that tragic fire, Corbyn went and consoled people, while May hid and chatted with the police. I know she would likely have been hammered, but people want to see emotion and she failed. Another win for Jez.

So what can they do? They need to find someone who can beat Jez in an election. Johnson is the bookies favourite and he has some attractive qualities. He has charisma, was twice elected London Mayor and played a huge role in Brexit.

However I suspect his time may have passed, and he is loathed by many due to his absurd gaffs and "free 350 million":pac:

The other favourites in the betting are Hammond, Davis and Javid. They are all really bland and won't excite anyone.

Then after that you have Rudd who barely held her seat.:pac:

Osborne would have been a safe pair of hands but is busy elsewhere and Davidson is not even an MP.

The Tories have a serious issue, they have nobody they can point at with much confidence who can beat Jezza with his box of treats.

I get the feeling that whoever is in charge they will most likely lose the election. Whoever will be in charge will have been in government when they started the austerity campaign. Labour already has their advertisements done for the next election. Theresa May and the Tories cut Police budgets and the result has been reports aren't being followed up because there is a strain on resources.

Boris Johnson? Look at this clip of him talking about preventing fires allowing you to cut the number of fire fighters and stations. This is not what people want to see or hear anymore. They are sick of it and I think they are sick of seeing a Conservative lying to them again.

I have not even looked at Brexit or the supposed alliance with the DUP even.

BoatMad

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader


The betting for next Tory leader. That should terrify their base. Either incredibly polarising like Johnson or charisma free like Hammond and Davis.

They may have to think outside the box because many of those listed are not beating Jez.

I can't see Boris in the role, I think people increasing see him as a buffoon hiding inside a buffoon. I think he would be a disaster for the Tories. The party is in self destruct mode , so anything is possible , normality has disappeared from British politics since Brexit

blanch152

wes wrote: »

RTE News has a story on this now:

Sinn Féin accuses May of breaching Good Friday Agreement


Can Sinn Fein threaten legal action of May goes ahead with the DUP deal? I would think they are stupid enough to do so, and risk peace in the North, as we have seen that the Tory's put party above anything and everything else.

Brexit is imho a real self inflicted disaster for the UK.

I love the headline, SF to oppose any deal........but with what MPs?

BoatMad

blanch152 wrote: »

I love the headline, SF to oppose any deal........but with what MPs?

they didnt say that, they said they would " oppose" any deal that undermines the GFA. They have not said that the deal DOES undermine it

Rjd2

Enzokk wrote: »

I get the feeling that whoever is in charge they will most likely lose the election. Whoever will be in charge will have been in government when they started the austerity campaign. Labour already has their advertisements done for the next election. Theresa May and the Tories cut Police budgets and the result has been reports aren't being followed up because there is a strain on resources.

Boris Johnson? Look at this clip of him talking about preventing fires allowing you to cut the number of fire fighters and stations. This is not what people want to see or hear anymore. They are sick of it and I think they are sick of seeing a Conservative lying to them again.

I have not even looked at Brexit or the supposed alliance with the DUP even.

Its going to be tough for them to win the next election. In a perfect Tory world, they somehow ride out the next few years, get Brexit over and done with, replace May and fight the next election with a fresh less useless face.

However that's idealistic thinking to say the least especially when you remember The Tories are supposedly sounding out MPS for another election.

A lot of their problems is self sabotage, they called Brexit and Cameron lost and this a totally unneeded election has been a disaster for them.

Looking at the betting, numerous of the favourites have ballsed up their chances immensely.

Johnson for many will never be forgiven for Brexit, Javid a hardline Euro critic backed remain to hold his job which has hurt him, Osborne decided he would rather edit the Standard, Gove knifed Johnson in the back while Steven Crabb who was highly thought made an arse of himself with that sexting scandal.

In all likely hood they will have to call an election which only the Corbyn fans want in the next year or two, with stale faces leading the frontline, Brexit recriminations and a leader who will either be a stale old face or someone like Johnson.

The Tories are meant to be the sensible "stable" party, with all these gambles backfiring and prominent people in the party imploding, this is a worrying time for them.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

I love the headline, SF to oppose any deal........but with what MPs?

When has having Irish MP's in Westminster ever served the people of Ireland?

Persephone kindness

I honestly think Keeping SF out of Westminster is a better idea. If they were out of politics altogether and people in NI voted SDLP it would be a much better idea.

Persephone kindness

BoatMad wrote: »

they didnt say that, they said they would " oppose" any deal that undermines the GFA. They have not said that the deal DOES undermine it

Perception is key though. It's easy to swing anything to justify general criminality.

Irishweather

Persephone kindness wrote: »

I honestly think Keeping SF out of Westminster is a better idea. If they were out of politics altogether and people in NI voted SDLP it would be a much better idea.

+1

More Rational, Mature and actually up for reasonable compromise.

FrancieBrady

The SDLP haven't been relevant for 20 years and declined away to nothing.
I know former SDLP voters who are happy to have SF lead the way.
Events are huge eyeopeners. Britain will get to see the DUP in all their fundamentalist glory and those in the north will get to see very clearly that London does not give a damn about them.

FrancieBrady

weather wrote: »

compromise.

And that is in one word why the SDLP are were they are. Quite simply, they were too willing to compromise when there was nothing offered and no deal on the table.
'Anything for the comfy seats', as my father, a former SDLP supporter used to say. He got fed up and disillusioned with them after the Sunningdale shambles.