2017 UK General Election - 8th June

Capt'n Midnight

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the magic money tree will be well shaken.

The UK Gov will have to find about £3 billion to start fixing the outfall from the Grenfell flats disaster.

need money ? clawback from the emergency services http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40264405

Police stations, which also pay rates, must pay £500m in the tax over the next five years - 15% higher than in the previous seven years.

...
Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said the Met had had to make £600m of savings and was due to lose an extra £400m by 2020.

Junkyard Tom

Rjd2 wrote: »

This will come back and haunt the Tories this deal.

I said it before this will harm the Tories considerably. There are 19 gay Tory MP's currently holding their noses while thier party leaders deal with the DUP.

There are 13 Scottish Conservatives who will be hammered by the SNP and Scottish public for propping up this government and allowing the DUP to extract a £1Bn ransome without getting a deal for Scotland.

I'll be surprised if this coalition lasts more than a few months.

4068ac1elhodqr

Rjd2 wrote: »

Hope they go with Jacob Rees Mogg though, would be immense banter him and Jezza debating.:pac:

Someone on countdown (the after-hours version) described him as a cartoon drawing of a typical Tory 'come-to-life'.

Already got EP@8 on PH, as the new PM before the 50% price drop yesterday.

One Oracle mentions a brand new party on the way with a young leader later in the year/'18, perhaps one of those you mentioned, but a more centrist movement. Also possible risk of TonyB climbing out from under a rock to assist EU 're-entry'.

At the end of the day sure what's 1bn, that new big boat cost a few 3bn, has no planes and the ones it may eventually get have plenty of problems. Also the Ruskies have developed 'hypersonic' (Mach5) big sticks according to a news article, rendering very big slow boats obsolete.

Irishweather

Irishweather wrote: »

Yeah, it's good for us in Northern Ireland. You'll not hear me whining.

We would not get anything of the sort from ROI.

Really? They were offering around half a billion for building a road but it keeps getting held up by appeals up there. Ho hum.

Dyr

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Any hint as to what the money will be spent on? Is it to be used on infrastructure projects, health, education?

Pallets and Flegs

Zubeneschamali

100m for "deprived communities" is the one to watch. Lots of deprived Orange Halls due a revamp!

First Up

Irishweather wrote:

We would not get anything of the sort from ROI.

The other 26 might chip in.

solodeogloria

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see how you arrived at this conclusion. 13 of the Conservatives' seats are in Scotland. They were won by Ruth Davidson, an LGBT woman who'd likely mutiny if the DUP were allowed to implement any of their morally reprehensible social agenda. The £1.5 billion was all they could ever really hope for. The liberal arm of the Tory party isn't going to let it be pushed around by a party whose very existence most of the British public just became aware of.

Good morning!

Read my previous post for my interpretation. I don't necessarily agree with these extra funds but I think the DUP have played a master stroke here. More money for Northern Ireland can legitimately be used as an argument for the DUP being proactively involved in the best interests in Northern Ireland while Sinn Féin do sweet nothing.

My point is that the DUP never had any intention of pushing a social agenda on Westminster in the first place. They seem to be far more shrewd than that. Why push a social agenda when you can get the trump card for putting Stormont back together with more goodies to spend?

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Thomas__

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

100m for "deprived communities" is the one to watch. Lots of deprived Orange Halls due a revamp!

Probably not just that. This Cartoon is a fitting depiction regarding the "expectations" on the DUP´s side and their hope and eagerness to get more influence via the UK govt to serve their own interests in the first place.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jun/26/martin-rowson-on-the-dups-1bn-windfall-Cartoon

I don´t think that this deal with the devil will last for long and Mrs May appears to be acting more impulsive than ever before. Maybe withing a couple of months to come, she´ll be replaced. Whether Mr Corbyn will be right in saying that he could be PM within six months is another matter and remains to be seen. I don´t expect him to be proved right unless Mrs May is overthrown by her own party and a new GE is called.

Thomas__

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the magic money tree will be well shaken.  

The UK Gov will have to find about £3 billion to start fixing the outfall from the Grenfell flats disaster.  

I think it could go the many times that if sprinklers have to be retrofitted to all high-rise flats, and possibly all high-rise buildings that do not have them.  Even worse, if the Gov has to pay for them all, including those in privately owned buildings.

I think this "magic money tree" has been discovered in some vault in the Bank of England. Couldn´t be otherwise to "make it believe" that there is such thing. Others might rather think that it is just a matter like "printing more money".

Peregrinus

I'm not sure that it's that much of a master stroke. Or, at least, they've missed the opportunity for a better stroke.

The great weakness in the DUP's position is that (a) they're a pro-Brexit party, but (b) this is not a popular stance in Northern Ireland, which not only voted "Remain" but did so by a larger margin than England voted for "Leave".

May has tried to treat the "Leave" vote as a vote for a hard Brexit. I argued a while ago in this forum that that was unwise - the "Leave" margin was thin and it would have made more sense to try to win a broader assent by targetting a softer Brexit strategy that took some account of the concerns and feelings of Remainers, and tried to accommodate them. I must now blushingly concede that the the results of the UK general election suggest that I was entirely correct in that.

So, the DUP were well-positioned to learn from May's mistake, improve their own situation and perhaps even to save May from herself, to some extent, by using their negotiating clout to soften the UK's Brexit stance as a condition of supporting a Tory government. They had a perfect democratic mandate to do so, since their own election manifesto - the one their voters voted for - calls for a number of softening elements in any Brexit.

But they don't appear to have done that. The Tory-DUP agreement commits them to support the government on Brexit legislation, regardless of what the terms of the that legislation may be. The agreement doesn't involve the Tories expressing even an aspiration to deliver a Brexit which pays any attention at all to the DUP manifesto position on Brexit. Brexit is excluded from the remit of the "coordination committee" which will be the forum in which the government negotiates DUP support on other issues. All the indications are that the DUP has sacrificed any desire to influence Brexit policy in return for a mess of pottage.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten, and if there is a hard Brexit Northern Ireland will be suffering from it long after they have spent the 1 billion or so which this agreement secures. And I don't think that will help the DUP's electoral position.

Arthur Daley

Irishweather wrote: »

Yeah, it's good for us in Northern Ireland. You'll not hear me whining.

We would not get anything of the sort from ROI.

The irony is that Sinn Fein love telling people in the south how we are not spending enough. Every budget and every election. Spending more is good for the economy, and fights 'austerity'.

The DUP on the face of it get 1.5bn for the health service and infrastructure investment and it's a waste of taxpayers money all of a sudden.

solodeogloria

Good morning,

Why would the DUP have softened their Brexit stance? It doesn't potentially even improve their position electorally. They can always depend on their tribe. That is unless the Brexit negotiations end up being a dog's dinner - which I don't think is likely. A deal will be struck.

Structural funds for Northern Ireland is the only tangible beneficial outcome from the negotiations with the Tories and that's what they've come out with.

On the Brexit front - I have to say I'm hugely encouraged by the British government's position on citizens rights. I'm glad I didn't start filling in that 86 page monstrosity and that my rights are guaranteed without doing anything.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

FrancieBrady

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

Read my previous post for my interpretation. I don't necessarily agree with these extra funds but I think the DUP have played a master stroke here. More money for Northern Ireland can legitimately be used as an argument for the DUP being proactively involved in the best interests in Northern Ireland while Sinn Féin do sweet nothing.

My point is that the DUP never had any intention of pushing a social agenda on Westminster in the first place. They seem to be far more shrewd than that. Why push a social agenda when you can get the trump card for putting Stormont back together with more goodies to spend?

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Nobody is there to be won over to the fantasy that the DUP are 'proactive in the interests of' anybody but their own sect.
Watch as they become embroiled in some fundamentalist cul de sac if this shambles last more than a few months.

FrancieBrady

Arthur Daley wrote: »

The irony is that Sinn Fein love telling people in the south how we are not spending enough. Every budget and every election. Spending more is good for the economy, and fights 'austerity'.

The DUP on the face of it get 1.5bn for the health service and infrastructure investment and it's a waste of taxpayers money all of a sudden.

I'm all in favour of reparations from the British exchequer coming to Ireland. I have already congratulated the DUP on that.

Peregrinus

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning,

Why would the DUP have softened their Brexit stance? . . .

You've completely missed my point, solo. I'm not arguing that the DUP should have softened their Brexit stance. I'm arguing that they should have stuck to their Brexit stance, which was already quite soft, and sought to carry it into the DUP/Tory agreement. Instead, they've cmpletely abandoned it. And if there's a hard Brexit that will work long-term disadvantage to Northern Ireland, long after the 1 billion has been spent and forgotten.

Thomas__

FrancieBrady wrote: »

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

Read my previous post for my interpretation. I don't necessarily agree with these extra funds but I think the DUP have played a master stroke here. More money for Northern Ireland can legitimately be used as an argument for the DUP being proactively involved in the best interests in Northern Ireland while Sinn Féin do sweet nothing.

My point is that the DUP never had any intention of pushing a social agenda on Westminster in the first place. They seem to be far more shrewd than that. Why push a social agenda when you can get the trump card for putting Stormont back together with more goodies to spend?

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Nobody is there  to be won over to the fantasy that the DUP are 'proactive in the interests of' anybody but their own sect.
Watch as they become embroiled in some fundamentalist cul de sac if this shambles last more than a few months.

That´s what I anticipate.

Peregrinus

solodeogloria wrote: »

On the Brexit front - I have to say I'm hugely encouraged by the British government's position on citizens rights. I'm glad I didn't start filling in that 86 page monstrosity and that my rights are guaranteed without doing anything.

Are you not an Irish citizen, solo? Or have I got that wrong?

Thomas__

Peregrinus wrote: »

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning,

Why would the DUP have softened their Brexit stance? . . .

You've completely missed my point, solo.  I'm  not arguing that the DUP should have softened their Brexit stance.  I'm arguing that they should have stuck to their Brexit stance, which was already quite soft, and sought to carry it into the DUP/Tory agreement.  Instead, they've cmpletely abandoned it.  And if there's a hard Brexit that will work long-term disadvantage to Northern Ireland, long after the 1 billion has been spent and forgotten.

The DUP has failed in NI under her persent leader and as of today, time is running out for them and the Shinners to form a power shared NI govt. The DUP might have been some "serious" coalition partern for the Tories under Mrs Foster´s predecessor who also had his faults in some ways.

If one thought that things couldn´t get worse, this current couple will show soon enough that things can get even worse.

solodeogloria

Good morning!

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody is there to be won over to the fantasy that the DUP are 'proactive in the interests of' anybody but their own sect.
Watch as they become embroiled in some fundamentalist cul de sac if this shambles last more than a few months.

This result from the negotiation demonstrates otherwise in a practical way. £1.5bn for the whole of Northern Ireland to be spent by the whole executive at Stormont.

Sinn Féin on the other hand have done sod all.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm all in favour of reparations from the British exchequer coming to Ireland. I have already congratulated the DUP on that.

Thank you for reminding me how glad I am that I don't regularly hear republican nonsense like that.

I'm thankful for the good relationship that Ireland has with Britain and hope it goes from strength to strength.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

FrancieBrady

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!



This result from the negotiation demonstrates otherwise in a practical way. £1.5bn for the whole of Northern Ireland to be spent by the whole executive at Stormont.

Sinn Féin on the other hand have done sod all.



Thank you for reminding me how glad I am that I don't regularly hear republican nonsense like that.

I'm thankful for the good relationship that Ireland has with Britain and hope it goes from strength to strength.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Why is it 'nonsense'? Wait until you hear what the Scots and Welsh call it.

And there won't be a person on this island who won't see this for what it is . There will be no gain whatsoever for unionism.

Thomas__

FrancieBrady wrote: »

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!



This result from the negotiation demonstrates otherwise in a practical way. £1.5bn for the whole of Northern Ireland to be spent by the whole executive at Stormont.

Sinn Féin on the other hand have done sod all.



Thank you for reminding me how glad I am that I don't regularly hear republican nonsense like that.

I'm thankful for the good relationship that Ireland has with Britain and hope it goes from strength to strength.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Why is it 'nonsense'? Wait until you hear what the Scots and Welsh call it.

And there won't be a person on this island who won't see this for what it is . There will be no gain whatsoever for unionism.

Maybe there might be some gain for the Shinners and their reputation across GB with the DUP being exposed for what they really are, given that they can´t act otherwise as they´re used to do, as the real political bigots from NI. With Mrs May still in office, the Tories will lose on their reputation further, even more so after this deal with the die-hard Unionists of the DUP. They can hold Mrs May in ransom at some time and I think that it won´t take Long until they "take" the first opportunity they will see fit for their purpose to use their "support" on Mrs May to put pressure on her.

I just like to point out that it´s just a couple of weeks to the 12th July. Issues around that date are at the core of the DUP and that might bring this "deal" to the test soon enough. I fear that there will be more tensions in NI over this and more so if Mrs May is bowing to take side with the DUP. It is in all a very sensitive and tensious matter and given the very performance of Mrs May in recent days, she´s not up to sustain the neutral role the UK govt has in all this according to the GFA.

Leroy42

The DUP don't care how they are perceived across the rest of the UK, their potential voters are in NI only and this deal gives the DUP the power to wave a cheque for 1.5bn over the heads of SF and asak what they have ever achieved.

It is a massive boon for DUP, and particularly Foster, who only a few months ago was embroiled in a scandal and has now come out looking like the saviour. DUP will use this to push through restarting Stormont, what option have SF got now? To not reopen Stormont would potentially leave the 1.5bn at risk. SO not only were they completely pointless and achieved nothing from the election, they are now potentially going to put at risk the gains secured by the DUP.

This scenario is about as bad as it could be for SF. Their core supporters won't care, but people will start to see that money is being delivered to the DUP areas and not SF areas and will start to question the point of the SF MP as they are achieing nothing.

From May's point of view, I think this creates more problems than it solves. SNP can now put massive pressure on the Scottish Conversatives for failing to achieve anything for the return of 12 seats. Will Ruth pull her support from May, or at least leverage it to land a similar boon to Scotland?

Peregrinus

I think you're overlooking the fact, Leroy, that if Stormont is restarted the DUP may claim credit for getting the 1 billion, but Sinn Fein will be fully involved in spending it, which (a) makes it less likely that it will be delivered only to DUP areas, and (b) leaves Sinn Fein as well positioned as the DUP to claim credit for specific expenditures.

The other point to make is that 1 bn is a tidy sum, but it needs to be put in perspective. Westminster transfers to NI run at about 10 bn per year. Over a five-year Parliament, assuming the transfer holds its value in real terms, that's 50 bn. An extra 1 bn represents a 2% increase, and to avoid infringing the Barnett formula there will be restrictions on how it can be spent, so it won't be spent in a maximally efficient way. All in all, i's not going to work a radical change in the province.

My guess is that, five years down the road, the negative impact of Brexit on NI is going to loom far larger in people's minds than the cash benefits of this deal. I don't think this is a "massive boon" for the DUP; I think it's a missed opportunity.

FrancieBrady

Leroy42 wrote: »

The DUP don't care how they are perceived across the rest of the UK, their potential voters are in NI only and this deal gives the DUP the power to wave a cheque for 1.5bn over the heads of SF and asak what they have ever achieved.

It is a massive boon for DUP, and particularly Foster, who only a few months ago was embroiled in a scandal and has now come out looking like the saviour. DUP will use this to push through restarting Stormont, what option have SF got now? To not reopen Stormont would potentially leave the 1.5bn at risk. SO not only were they completely pointless and achieved nothing from the election, they are now potentially going to put at risk the gains secured by the DUP.

This scenario is about as bad as it could be for SF. Their core supporters won't care, but people will start to see that money is being delivered to the DUP areas and not SF areas and will start to question the point of the SF MP as they are achieing nothing.

?

1 billion is not that much in the scheme of things. Look how much the RHI scheme squandered and there isn't now a word about it from supposedly moral gardians and the fiscal rectitude mob.
This is only likely to finish the UUP if (and it's a big if) it goes well.
Everything else about this cling to power is a shambles.

Thomas__

Leroy42 wrote: »

The DUP don't care how they are perceived across the rest of the UK, their potential voters are in NI only and this deal gives the DUP the power to wave a cheque for 1.5bn over the heads of SF and asak what they have ever achieved.

It is a massive boon for DUP, and particularly Foster, who only a few months ago was embroiled in a scandal and has now come out looking like the saviour.  DUP will use this to push through restarting Stormont, what option have SF got now?  To not reopen Stormont would potentially leave the 1.5bn at risk.  SO not only were they completely pointless and achieved nothing from the election, they are now potentially going to put at risk the gains secured by the DUP.

This scenario is about as bad as it could be for SF.  Their core supporters won't care, but people will start to see that money is being delivered to the DUP areas and not SF areas and will start to question the point of the SF MP as they are achieing nothing.

From May's point of view, I think this creates more problems than it solves.  SNP can now put massive pressure on the Scottish Conversatives for failing to achieve anything for the return of 12 seats.  Will Ruth pull her support from May, or at least leverage it to land a similar boon to Scotland?

Spot on. Very interesting points you´ve made in your post. Just, the UK govt has yet to deliver the money first and given how shaky Mrs May is these days, she might stumble over some other future incident in GB where she will as well fail the way she did on other incidents. If she will be overthrown in the near future, the DUP might as well forget about the £1.5bn when the deal struck yesterday will be obsolete cos a new GE will be called. IMO, this still hangs in the balance and a break up of this current May cabinet will set the DUP back and in the end of the day, they will have achieved nothing, apart from being the most despised political party across the UK.

The DUP will certainly try to get some influence over the Drumcree issue (as the OO already has demanded in the wake of the possibility to get the DUP into coalition with the Tories). Everybody knows about the close "relationship" between the DUP and the OO, in which the former is acting as the political arm of the latter.

I expect tensions around the 12th July rising again, because of that.

Leroy42

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think you're overlooking the fact, Leroy, that if Stormont is restarted the DUP may claim credit for getting the 1 billion, but Sinn Fein will be fully involved in spending it, which (a) makes it less likely that it will be delivered only to DUP areas, and (b) leaves Sinn Fein as well positioned as the DUP to claim credit for specific expenditures.

The other point to make is that 1 bn is a tidy sum, but it needs to be put in perspective. Westminster transfers to NI run at about 10 bn per year. Over a five-year Parliament, assuming the transfer holds its value in real terms, that's 50 bn. An extra 1 bn represents a 2% increase, and to avoid infringing the Barnett formula there will be restrictions on how it can be spent, so it won't be spent in a maximally efficient way. All in all, i's not going to work a radical change in the province.

My guess is that, five years down the road, the negative impact of Brexit on NI is going to loom far larger in people's minds than the cash benefits of this deal. I don't think this is a "massive boon" for the DUP; I think it's a missed opportunity.

I'm not overlooking that fact at all, hence why I said that SF have to get Stormont working again. Since the DUP secured the money, the DUP will look to spend it more in their own areas that SF, that is just politics. Where the money is spent in SF areas, you can be sure that the DUP will ensure that everyone knows where the money came from, so not really any good to SF.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

1 billion is not that much in the scheme of things. Look how much the RHI scheme squandered and there isn't now a word about it from supposedly moral gardians and the fiscal rectitude mob.
This is only likely to finish the UUP if (and it's a big if) it goes well.
Everything else about this cling to power is a shambles.

In terms of the money and the relative size of it, that doesn't matter to the voters, 1bn is the tagline. 1bn extra. What the base is not important, that was always going to come. But 1bn that can be spent on schools, roads etc etc. Tangible, identifable acheivements that the DUP will be able to point to and at the same time highlight the pointlessness of voting for SF in UK general elections.

Why would anyone, in a current SF area with lack of schools etc, vote for SF again next time when only the DUP can deliver. I'm not saying it is right but at the end of the day voters vote based on what they will get personally.

FrancieBrady

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'm not overlooking that fact at all, hence why I said that SF have to get Stormont working again. Since the DUP secured the money, the DUP will look to spend it more in their own areas that SF, that is just politics. Where the money is spent in SF areas, you can be sure that the DUP will ensure that everyone knows where the money came from, so not really any good to SF.



In terms of the money and the relative size of it, that doesn't matter to the voters, 1bn is the tagline. 1bn extra. What the base is not important, that was always going to come. But 1bn that can be spent on schools, roads etc etc. Tangible, identifable acheivements that the DUP will be able to point to and at the same time highlight the pointlessness of voting for SF in UK general elections.

Why would anyone, in a current SF area with lack of schools etc, vote for SF again next time when only the DUP can deliver. I'm not saying it is right but at the end of the day voters vote based on what they will get personally.

The money isn't to be spent at the whim of the DUP..
It is only the UUP who will suffer electorally. The DUP have not been miraculously cleansed of their bigoted fundamentalist policy pursuits and will probably be emboldened to become more so, doing huge damage in the process.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

This scenario is about as bad as it could be for SF. Their core supporters won't care

This is NI politics in a nutshell.

Likewise, when the corruption scandals break out over DUP spending the £1bn on flegs, sashes and bowler hats, it will be "as bad as it could be" for the DUP, and their voters won't care, either.

Peregrinus

The DUP may say (with some justification) that they secured the money, but they won't control it. The money won't be paid to the DUP, but to the Northern Ireland Treasury, and expenditure decisions will either be made by the public service under the direction of the Secretary of State, or by the NI Executive, which can only function if it includes both the DUP and SF. Which, I repeat, in regard to this road, that community centre, the other facility, leaves SF (with some justification) in pretty much the same position as the DUP to claim the credit for the expenditure decision. And they won't be shy.

If anything, SF could be better off. "Yes" they'll say, "we know your suffering as a result of Brexit. The DUP could have tried to soften that, but they chose not to. But at least we made sure that some of the 1 bn was spent on your shiny new school/clinic/whatever because, as you well know, if the DUP had been left to themselves on that you wouldn't have seen a shilling of it."

FrancieBrady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This is NI politics in a nutshell.

Likewise, when the corruption scandals break out over DUP spending the £1bn on flegs, sashes and bowler hats, it will be "as bad as it could be" for the DUP, and their voters won't care, either.

If the suggestion is that the Tories will turn a blind eye again to the DUP feathering their own nest then you may as well tear up the GFA now.

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

The money won't be paid to the DUP

That's what people thought about that RHI money.

Zubeneschamali

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the suggestion is that the Tories will turn a blind eye again to the DUP feathering their own nest

They are doing it right now! We are still awaiting an investigation into Arlene Foster and her connection to corruption involving 1/2 a billion of UK taxpayers money in the RHI scandal.

This is what brought down the institutions at Stormont.

La la la, nothing to see here, have another £1.5 billion lads!

Peregrinus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That's what people thought about that RHI money.

Was the RHI money paid to the DUP, or just wasted on the DUP's watch?

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

Was the RHI money paid to the DUP, or just wasted on the DUP's watch?

It wasn't paid to the DUP, but it wasn't simply wasted, since that would suggest that it went nowhere in particular.

I can't say it was stolen either, since the whole scheme was set up on the DUP's watch so that people could take the money legally.

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It wasn't paid to the DUP, but it wasn't simply wasted, since that would suggest that it went nowhere in particular.

I can't say it was stolen either, since the whole scheme was set up on the DUP's watch so that people could take the money legally.

Exactly.

So on the one hand we havve SF bringing down the executive because of the RHI scandal and how Foster had dealt with that money, but on the other hand DUP will not be in a position to focus the 1bn on DUP areas because of the executive.

Foster will look back on the last few months, and whilst the RHI scandal was troublesome, she is now in a much stronger position than before.

That is the real-politic of this. Of course SF will claim that it is they that got the money to their area, but without the 10 DUP MP's this extra money would not be coming at all. That is undeniable.

Of course, the likelihood of the current government lasting more than a few years is highly questionable, and if I was the DUP I would have demanded the money up front and guaranteed no matter what happens in Westminster

FrancieBrady

In the south of England today and listening to local radio. To say that the people of Cornwall are happy would be a total lie. Jeffrey Donaldson got a bit of a roasting for repeatedly playing the 'emotional' look what the terrorists did' card. Callers were suprisingly well up on the DUP social policy and the RHI scandal.
Cornwall voted Tory in the election...maybe a gain back for Labour if they go to the country again.

ArmaniJeanss

Leroy42 wrote: »

and if I was the DUP I would have demanded the money up front

They effectively did, the money is over 2 years then the arrangement is revisited.

Leroy42 wrote: »

and guaranteed no matter what happens in Westminster

Pointless guarantee as the next government wouldn't be bound by this arrangement anyway, whether that's after an election or Labour winning 50 sudden by-elections in this parliament.

Rjd2

Peregrinus wrote: »

The DUP may say (with some justification) that they secured the money, but they won't control it. The money won't be paid to the DUP, but to the Northern Ireland Treasury,

Its depressing the amount of people online who don't seem to be able to understand this is not going into the DUP pockets is crazy. There is so much to beat them up with, no need to be misleading gullible fools online.

Leroy42

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its depressing the amount of people online who don't seem to be able to understand this is not going into the DUP pockets is crazy. There is so much to beat them up with, no need to be misleading gullible fools online.

I doubt many think it is actually going directly to the DUP, but there is no doubt that the DUP will take ownership of it. It actually doesn't matter where it is spend (DUP or SF area), the money has come directly from the DUP having the deciding votes in the HoC.

In a basically two party system that exists in NI, having one party being able to deliver 1bn of extra funding whilst the other one purposefully sits on the sidelines will have an effect.

Again, it is unlikely to have a major effect as NI politics run on sectarian lines first and foremost but it is only a positive for the DUP.

FrancieBrady

Leroy42 wrote: »

I doubt many think it is actually going directly to the DUP, but there is no doubt that the DUP will take ownership of it. It actually doesn't matter where it is spend (DUP or SF area), the money has come directly from the DUP having the deciding votes in the HoC.

In a basically two party system that exists in NI, having one party being able to deliver 1bn of extra funding whilst the other one purposefully sits on the sidelines will have an effect.

Again, it is unlikely to have a major effect as NI politics run on sectarian lines first and foremost but it is only a positive for the DUP.

What you are patently refusing to take on board is that the DUP will still be the bigoted fundamentalist DUP.
They risk taking a bell of a lot of the blame if this goes tits up or Brexit bites NI hard. Very likely in both cases.
They did ok in the election and got a lucky break.

solodeogloria

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think you're overlooking the fact, Leroy, that if Stormont is restarted the DUP may claim credit for getting the 1 billion, but Sinn Fein will be fully involved in spending it, which (a) makes it less likely that it will be delivered only to DUP areas, and (b) leaves Sinn Fein as well positioned as the DUP to claim credit for specific expenditures.

Good evening!

Spending the money isn't as significant as getting it in the first place.

Yes Sinn Féin can claim that they spent it but they can't say they brought it in.

Therefore they are not "as well positioned" to claim that it's their achievement when it is nothing of the sort.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

FrancieBrady

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!

Spending the money isn't as significant as getting it in the first place.

Yes Sinn Féin can claim that they spent it but they can't say they brought it in.

Therefore they are not "as well positioned" to claim that it's their achievement when it is nothing of the sort.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

There will only be vote gain within unionism. People know the 'significance' of this money They are not fooled.

solodeogloria

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!

Spending the money isn't as significant as getting it in the first place.

Yes Sinn Féin can claim that they spent it but they can't say they brought it in.

Therefore they are not "as well positioned" to claim that it's their achievement when it is nothing of the sort.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

It's only because of Sinn Fein not taking their seats in Westminster, that the Tories could do the deal with the DUP. You could say the 1bn was really made possible by SF.

solodeogloria

Deleted User wrote: »

It's only because of Sinn Fein not taking their seats in Westminster, that the Tories could do the deal with the DUP. You could say the 1bn was really made possible by SF.

Good evening!

That's not true. The Tories and DUP together have an overall majority of the house inclusive of Sinn Féin so that isn't true.

Sinn Féin excluded the Tories have a majority on their own.

Sinn Féin's position is an absurdity. They claim parliament is illegitimate and yet they run for the seats in this illegitimate parliament. They simply shouldn't stand. The demise of the SDLP is a real loss to Northern Irish politics.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

FrancieBrady

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!

That's not true. The Tories and DUP together have an overall majority of the house inclusive of Sinn Féin so that isn't true.

Sinn Féin excluded the Tories have a majority on their own.

Sinn Féin's position is an absurdity. They claim parliament is illegitimate and yet they run for the seats in this illegitimate parliament. They simply shouldn't stand. The demise of the SDLP is a real loss to Northern Irish politics.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Elections are surveys of what people's attitudes and needs are. It's undemocratic to try to stop a party running or call it absurd.
The electorate are sovereign and they have decided the SDLP are redundant.

A Dub in Glasgo

solodeogloria wrote: »

Sinn Féin excluded the Tories have a majority on their own.

Not true, there are 650 seats in the HoC. Take away the SF seats (7), the speaker (Tory) and deputy speaker positions (one Tory and one Labour) and that leaves 640 seats. Divide that 640 by 2 and you get 320 seats then add one to give you 321 seats. This is the magic number that is needed for an overall majority with SF not taking up their seats.

Now the Tories got 318 seats so are 3 short but they gave up seats for the speaker and deputy speaker which means they have 316 seats so are 5 short of an overall majority.

If SF took their seats, the overall majority figure needed would be 324 (the Tory / DUP majority would then be 2)

ancapailldorcha

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