Knocking out back wall

metricspaces

What would be the rough cost to knock out the back wall of a semi-d house to allow space for glass panels.

Some details:
* Opening will be 3m wide and standard door height.
* House is a new build timber frame.
* Work includes horizontal steel support
* Work includes returning all areas to original finish. Tile floor fixed up, replaster walls, paint entire rear of house.
* Location is Dublin.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

What would be the rough cost to knock out the back wall of a semi-d house to allow space for glass panels.

Some details:
* Opening will be 3m wide and standard door height.
* House is a new build timber frame.
* Work includes horizontal steel support
* Work includes returning all areas to original finish. Tile floor fixed up, replaster walls, paint entire rear of house.
* Location is Dublin.

Over 10k.
It's not just horizontal support, you also need vertical support to hold this horizontal support up.

metricspaces

Thanks. What should I expect in terms of engineers fee?

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks. What should I expect in terms of engineers fee?

Easily 2k to cover
Initial site visit.
Site visit once contractor has exposed the structural fabric of the building (removed finishes etc)
Structural design, drawing and printing)
Discussion with contractor.
Inspection of erected structural elements.
Sign off.

*business overheads, VAT, tax etc

You do have a major complication though, and that's the timber frame. I'm assuming the timber frame can be modified to allow for this.

metricspaces

kceire wrote: »

Over 10k.
It's not just horizontal support, you also need vertical support to hold this horizontal support up.

How would you see the breakdownn of the 10k? In terms of the main areas of cost e.g. labour, steel, other materials, plasterer, painter?

scwazrh

Not looking to get into to the usual disagreements that arise when offering prices for unseen jobs on a forum but I know if a tender came in for 10k for that type of work to us it would be about 30-40% over current market rates.

Assuming the following
- standard 3 bed two storey semi D in good structural condition.
- No major site restrictions for access
- Horizontal beam fitted under 1st floor joists and using a goal post support design
- Standard finish inside - matching floor coverings available off the shelf , no rads to move etc.

I would budget 7-8k for builders work including engineers certification . Obviously with vat invoice , reg. company , retention on payments etc.
Glazing could be anything from Munster Joinery pvc 3 number 1m panels at €600 each up to skys the limit prices.

metricspaces

scwazrh wrote: »

Not looking to get into to the usual disagreements that arise when offering prices for unseen jobs on a forum but I know if a tender came in for 10k for that type of work to us it would be about 30-40% over current market rates.

Assuming the following
- standard 3 bed two storey semi D in good structural condition.
- No major site restrictions for access
- Horizontal beam fitted under 1st floor joists and using a goal post support design
- Standard finish inside - matching floor coverings available off the shelf , no rads to move etc.

I would budget 7-8k for builders work including engineers certification . Obviously with vat invoice , reg. company , retention on payments etc.
Glazing could be anything from Munster Joinery pvc 3 number 1m panels at €600 each up to skys the limit prices.

Thanks. Yes. Just to be clear. I'm not including the cost of the window/doors. Only the work to make the opening and return surroundings to original.

Horizontal beam will be at standard door height. So well below first floor. I've been told vertical beams are not needed.

Materials here will not be a large expense. So it's hard to see where 10k comes from.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

Horizontal beam will be at standard door height. So well below first floor. I've been told vertical beams are not needed.

Who told you this?

metricspaces

kceire wrote: »

Who told you this?

An engineer. But the main focus here is discussing costs. Vertical beams won't massively increase the cost even if they were needed.

How would you see the breakdown of the 10k? In terms of the main areas of cost e.g. labour, steel, other materials, plasterer, painter?

listermint

metricspaces wrote: »

An engineer. But the main focus here is discussing costs. Vertical beams won't massively increase the cost even if they were needed.

How would you see the breakdown of the 10k? In terms of the main areas of cost e.g. labour, steel, other materials, plasterer, painter?

Feels like you need to go back to your engineer as they have all the answers. Might be able to cost it for you.

How do you see the cost breakdown?

metricspaces

listermint wrote: »

Feels like you need to go back to your engineer as they have all the answers. Might be able to cost it for you.

How do you see the cost breakdown?

This is a thread to request a cost. I didn't suggest a cost of 10k. So I asked how the cost of 10k was arrived at - i.e. what the breakdown would be.

BryanF

metricspaces wrote: »

This is a thread to request a cost. I didn't suggest a cost of 10k. So I asked how the cost of 10k was arrived at - i.e. what the breakdown would be.

Get 3 quotes.

Calahonda52

kceire wrote: »

You do have a major complication though, and that's the timber frame. I'm assuming the timber frame can be modified to allow for this.

Am assuming this is a TF with a block or brick rain shield

This construction is a concern from a structural design/integrity perspective, including the point supports during construction but there is also a big issue with how the insulation/airtightness/wind-tightness layers will be maintained.

If moisture vapour gets into the insulation from this work on a continuous basis post construction it will lead to serious problems down stream.

OP this should be your focus rather than whinging about no breakdown on the 10k estimate.

metricspaces

Yes, it is TF with block rain shield. I agree cost is not the only factor and the most important thing is that it is done correctly.

In terms of getting it done correctly, I plan to get an engineer from the TF company that produced the frame for the house. Finding a builder to do the work, I'm unsure about, but I guess I would need a builder familiar with TF houses.

A cost of 10k was suggested. To come up with a cost figure you'd need an idea of what adds into the cost. I merely asked for further information on this to understand the 10k figure. Equally if someone has another figure (other than 10k) I'd be interested in the rough break down.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

An engineer. But the main focus here is discussing costs. Vertical beams won't massively increase the cost even if they were needed.

Is this Engineer offering to design and certify the structural work?
Has he seen the build up?
Very foolish for an "Engineer" to offer this opinion blind.

metricspaces wrote: »

How would you see the breakdown of the 10k? In terms of the main areas of cost e.g. labour, steel, other materials, plasterer, painter?

Based on experience. For a detailed break down, get your structural and finishing drawings prepared and get at least 3 quotes from competent builders.

metricspaces wrote: »

A cost of 10k was suggested. To come up with a cost figure you'd need an idea of what adds into the cost. I merely asked for further information on this to understand the 10k figure. Equally if someone has another figure (other than 10k) I'd be interested in the rough break down.

Get 3 acurate like for like quotes is the only way to cost it. An internet forum will only offer partial advice.

Im surprised your Engineer hasnt offered opinions on costs also.

metricspaces

Yes, definitely I will get a few quotes once I have the drawings etc. Still it would be good to know a rough idea of the main items that feed into the overall figure. Would builders typically give this breakdown or you would just get an overall figure?

Penn

metricspaces wrote: »

Horizontal beam will be at standard door height. So well below first floor. I've been told vertical beams are not needed.

Then what is the horizontal beam sitting on? If it's a timber frame build, the brick outer leaf won't be sufficient support for a beam, and the timber frame inner leaf will require works regardless to form the new opening and provide a structural support for the ends of the horizontal beam. Even if it's not done in steel, there will be vertical support required under the ends of the beam and that needs to be properly designed and constructed.

You need a proper structural design carried out. Only when that's done can a reasonable estimate be given for how much the work will cost.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

Would builders typically give this breakdown or you would just get an overall figure?

Typically no, unless you provide a BoQ which breaks down each part of the build.

its up to you to provide this service.