Bouncer punches woman who tried to punch him.

Pat Mustard

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

It's utterly baffling now reading back on the thread.

He continually calls the bouncer a scumbag to video he didn't bother his hole watching .

He didn't watch the video but he said that he imagined what the doorman did.

One eyed Jack

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is there a different version of events where you weren't biased and you didn't admit to being biased and where you actually watched the video before posting on the thread for a couple of days?

As I said,

- I didn't feel the need to watch the video because I was going on the accounts here of what happened, where I assumed that the girl had connected with a drunken punch, and the doorman instinctively reacted with a quick slap. They'd still be a scumbag under those circumstances.

- we're not in a court of law, so nobody is going to be found guilty or otherwise based on the opinions of any of our posts.

- Complaints of bias require a great deal more evidence before either the prosecution or the defence could start waving that one around and expect it to be taken seriously.

Pat Mustard

One eyed Jack wrote: »

- Complaints of bias require a great deal more evidence before either the prosecution or the defence could start waving that one around and expect it to be taken seriously.

:pac:

Glenster

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As I said,

- I didn't feel the need to watch the video because I was going on the accounts here of what happened, where I assumed that the girl had connected with a drunken punch, and the doorman instinctively reacted with a quick slap. They'd still be a scumbag under those circumstances.

- we're not in a court of law, so nobody is going to be found guilty or otherwise based on the opinions of any of our posts.

- Complaints of bias require a great deal more evidence before either the prosecution or the defence could start waving that one around and expect it to be taken seriously.

Case dismissed.

Next on the docket;

A poster used the word 'pal' in a passive aggressive manner.

One eyed Jack

Pat Mustard wrote: »

:pac:

They could wave it around all they wanted, whether it would be taken seriously or not is another matter entirely, much like the way your accusing me of being biased as if I'm supposed to take it seriously, when really we're all here just shooting the breeze.

ohnonotgmail

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They could wave it around all they wanted, whether it would be taken seriously or not is another matter entirely, much like the way your accusing me of being biased as if I'm supposed to take it seriously, when really we're all here just shooting the breeze.

you admitted to being biased. you were not accused of it.

ZeitgeistGlee

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Naturally I'm going to be extremely biased because I am a man, and I would hold any man to that same standard, and if I were a woman (which I'm not), I would hold women to that same standard.

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying you can't hold a woman to the same standard as a man for violent conduct because you're not a woman? Surely all people should all be held to the same standard irrespective of gender?

Still waiting on an answer to this one Jack.

alpha13

One eyed Jack wrote: »

alpha I'd agree with a lot of what you said alright, but this bit, and the bit about fear of being accused of sexual assault/harrassment - he should have expected it and been prepared for it, rather than being taken by surprise like that. As for the fear of being accused of sexual assault/racism (once or twice I got the "is it cos I is bleck?" type, I couldn't care less if they were purple with green spots), if they're not sexually assaulting anyone they won't have anything to worry about, same as if they don't slap anyone, they won't have anything to worry about. Any time the Gardaí were ever called, they were always more than helpful in those situations.

i agree with you jack... when i said HAD to.. i mean it in the terms that only the person in the situation knows what THEY believe they need to do... lots of us believe we would handle the situation better..and maybe we would... i would like to believe i would in that situation... and more than likely would as i always adopted the approach with any situation regarding females as step back look at the whole picture before you react... and react as if it is a very very serious situation..usually it wont be that bad and therefore you are prepared for the worst and have a good situation then because it wont be that bad... but it still boils down to the person in the situation at that particular time...but i also know that, as you will well know.. people straight away have an opinion on doormen and any claim made against us usually ends up with us having to fight to prove we did NOT do anything rather than innocent until proven guilty..i too have found the gardai very helpful in situations on the door and most understand we are just doing our best and will be reasonable..but they still have a job to do IF a complaint is made..particularly from a female member.. there is NO being prepared for the possibility of being accused of harassement or wrong doing in that manner...they are very serious comments with very real ramification.. just look at the irish solider accused of rape a longtime ago abroad.. even after she admitted to making up the story to save her reputation because she had sex and was drunk... people still didnt believe him and looked at him as if he HAD done the rape.. i know it is a different situation and only highlight it to point out the real risks out there... that sort is far more damaging that any physical.. physical will heal..mental and reputational has long reaching effects... again.. just my opinion on it.... as i said earlier..only once did i have to use force..and always prided myself on that fact..like you found common courtesy and manners and respect far more useful and beneficial even to the point of having customers make me aware of things beforehand or watch my back... you never know who you are dealing with or who they know... so treat them how i want to be treated...
strict BUT fair.. but again..we are not the ones in that situation at that time..

andekwarhola

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

If people taught their children never to hit anyone (male or female) then this situation would probably never have arisen in the first place.

Just on a general aside, I now tell my kids that they can hit back in certain situations, like if another kid is physically bullying them. Obviously I also make it clear that they're not 'expected' to do it (as if it's some macho tickbox) just that I'll understand if they choose to defend themselves against somebody, say, a bully. Equally, it's understood that hitting in other contexts is not on.

Unfortunately life isn't simplistic and not everybody will be on the same sheet as good intentions when it comes to conflict and bullying.

beauf

the_syco wrote: »

If she had a diamond ring on the hand that she swung with, and it made contact, it would have done a LOT of damage.

Also, had he restrained her, ...

....maybe you are thinking of minority report....

One eyed Jack

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you admitted to being biased. you were not accused of it.

Not biased in the way Pats trying to insinuate though, jury bias is a known phenomenon and of course assumptions are going to be made. In this case I initially assumed it was actually being made out to be worse than it was given that there were so many posters quick to leap to the assault/self-defence "definition by law" stuff, but unless we were actually in a court of law which is the only place it would actually be relevant, I wouldn't advise anyone to take anything written here regarding this particular case seriously.

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Still waiting on an answer to this one Jack.

Sorry Z, I genuinely hadn't seen it, but I thought it was clear from my posts that I hold women to the same standard - her behaviour was that of a scumbag too, and I said from the very beginning of the thread that two wrongs don't make a right, but because as a man I would have an inherent bias, I'm more concerned about holding men to that standard than women whose behaviour some MRA types would refer to as an example of "toxic femininiteeee". Same standards alright, equally mind-numbingly stupid arguments for their idea of "gender equaliteeee".

ohnonotgmail

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Not biased in the way Pats trying to insinuate though, jury bias is a known phenomenon and of course assumptions are going to be made. In this case I initially assumed it was actually being made out to be worse than it was given that there were so many posters quick to leap to the assault/self-defence "definition by law" stuff, but unless we were actually in a court of law which is the only place it would actually be relevant, I wouldn't advise anyone to take anything written here regarding this particular case seriously.

The law didnt just appear out of nowhere. It is pretty well established that people have a right to defend themselves. As did this bouncer. It is only the permanently outraged who think otherwise.

One eyed Jack

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The law didnt just appear out of nowhere. It is pretty well established that people have a right to defend themselves. As did this bouncer. It is only the permanently outraged who think otherwise.

Of course he'd every right to defend himself, and now he's being investigated to determine whether his act of self-defence was disproportionate. In my opinion it was, even moreso than I initially thought it was when I saw the video. He'd already ducked the attempted assault, and lashing out at her like that was unnecessary IMO, but there's a high degree of probability IMO that he did it because he was under the impression he was able to, not because he had to.

EDIT: I'm far from the permanently outraged type either, I don't see that it should be acceptable to use disproportionate force against anyone and claim they would have wanted it that way, equal rights yo!

Glenster

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Of course he'd every right to defend himself, and now he's being investigated to determine whether his act of self-defence was disproportionate. In my opinion it was, even moreso than I initially thought it was when I saw the video. He'd already ducked the attempted assault, and lashing out at her like that was unnecessary IMO, but there's a high degree of probability IMO that he did it because he was under the impression he was able to, not because he had to.

This is really annoying me.

He didn't punch her in vengeance for the first swing.

The confrontation wasn't over when she swung and missed, he ended it by punching her.

He stopped the attack.

ohnonotgmail

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Of course he'd every right to defend himself, and now he's being investigated to determine whether his act of self-defence was disproportionate. In my opinion it was, even moreso than I initially thought it was when I saw the video. He'd already ducked the attempted assault, and lashing out at her like that was unnecessary IMO, but there's a high degree of probability IMO that he did it because he was under the impression he was able to, not because he had to.

EDIT: I'm far from the permanently outraged type either, I don't see that it should be acceptable to use disproportionate force against anyone and claim they would have wanted it that way, equal rights yo!

if the bouncer had stepped back after the woman attempted to punch him, stepped forward and THEN punched her i would agree. but that is not what happened. it was a counter-punch. entirely justified.

Glenster

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if the bouncer had stepped back after the woman attempted to punch him, stepped forward and THEN punched her i would agree. but that is not what happened. it was a counter-punch. entirely justified.

Right shoulder and X in Street Fighter.

ohnonotgmail

Glenster wrote: »

Right shoulder and X in Street Fighter.

pilly

Glenster wrote: »

Right shoulder and X in Street Fighter.

Jesus H, that's what scares me.

diomed

She should get the house, custody of the children, half his wages, and half his pension.
That's the standard for 2nd place in a fight.

Contessa Raven

From what I see in the video it was more of a smack and less of a thump. I didn't see his hand balled into a fist. Looked pretty flat. It also didn't knock her off her feet. He just slapped her in the face and she stumbled back presumably from the shock more than anything else.

She swung at him with intent to harm him. He isn't to know if she has a weapon that she can grab with her other hand so in my opinion, he did right to knock her away with force. It doesn't look like he even hurt her.

soups05

I followed this thread over the past 35 pages and it has gone round and round. Let me put a new variation in if I can. Back in Jan I was attacked by two men (children some would call them as they were 20 years old) now am no fighter and it was unexpected so i went down fast lol. My son (25) and daughter(23) came out and saved my ass.
My point is that my daughter was well able to knock one of them down, breaking his nose in the process. The scumbag did not give a damn about equal rights, or the whole "never hit a woman" idea that most men are brought up with. he was swinging for my daughter just like the woman in the video was swinging for the bouncer.
Scumbags don't play by the rules of normal society, be they male or female. I have seen women become vicious in a fight far more often than men. I was attacked by a drunken female friend of my wife years ago and did the whole push her back, keep her at a distance act and it did not work, she kept coming till she tripped over and landed on her ass then cried that i hit her. I could easily have done time for that if it were not for the cctv showing my innocence.
Too many women turned into the lad culture during the boom, drink hard, fight hard, take on anyone cos they can't hit back. now they are paying the price. My daughter took kickboxing for years, not just to protect herself from aggressive men, but also aggressive women. its not male v female it normal people v scumbags. in this fight the scumbag just happened to be female.

For all the brave souls who would never hit a woman, no matter what, try rocking up to your local town center on a sat night and see how long your good manner last in the real world.

riffmongous

alpha13 wrote: »

yes it still can be instinctive.. martial arts students do it all the time..you train the moves and reactions and the body reacts in the situation and calculates the best option even down to the level of force used..all on auto reaction...
also... yes doorstaff restrain people all the time..but you wont see a single doorman restraining a female very often.... only if there is a number of them and even then very wary nowadys...

There are two doorstaff there, you can see the second one at the end of the video

MadDog76

riffmongous wrote: »

There are two doorstaff there, you can see the second one at the end of the video

You sure? I've just looked at the video again and I can't see a second doorman??

Anyway, for the punch being thrown at the bouncer, he was alone.

riffmongous

MadDog76 wrote: »

You sure? I've just looked at the video again and I can't see a second doorman??

Anyway, for the punch being thrown at the bouncer, he was alone.

It's hard to see in the one linked in the OP as they blurred the faces, but if you watch another version of it you can see him, he was keeping an eye on the second girl by the looks of it.

See him here, he's bald
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4420800/Bouncer-punches-woman-FACE-takes-swing-him.html

MadDog76

riffmongous wrote: »

It's hard to see in the one linked in the OP as they blurred the faces, but if you watch another version of it you can see him, he was keeping an eye on the second girl by the looks of it.

Crowd control so, standard.

Glenster

soups05 wrote: »

For all the brave souls who would never hit a woman, no matter what, try rocking up to your local town center on a sat night and see how long your good manner last in the real world.

Exactly.

Men = women.

Humans > Scumbags

darced

This post has been deleted.

riffmongous

Oh an update!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3378293/model-who-was-filmed-being-brutally-punched-by-a-burly-nightclub-bouncer-denies-provoking-attack/

See claims she got up on a table to dance inside and he grabbed her down and dragged her outside and she's got the bruises to prove (she claims and shows some nasty looking ones in some pics), although she struggles to remember 'the exact course of events'. She also claims 'self defense'. That throws some gas on the fire

MadDog76

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Articles online (she spoke to the sun if you want to look for it) she was dancing on tables and bouncer pulled her off the table to put her out. She feels she had the right to throw the punch in defence because he didn't ask her to get off the table first

riffmongous wrote: »

Oh an update!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3378293/model-who-was-filmed-being-brutally-punched-by-a-burly-nightclub-bouncer-denies-provoking-attack/

See claims she got up on a table to dance inside and he grabbed her down and dragged her outside and she's got the bruises to prove (she claims and shows some nasty looking ones in some pics), although she struggles to remember 'the exact course of events'. She also claims 'self defense'. That throws some gas on the fire

Lexie gave us that update 8/9 pages ago!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

That's me maddog - always ahead with the updates

riffmongous

MadDog76 wrote: »

Lexie gave us that update 8/9 pages ago!

Bollocks.I gave up following the thread, I just reply to people who quote me so I didn't see it

ohnonotgmail

riffmongous wrote: »

Oh an update!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3378293/model-who-was-filmed-being-brutally-punched-by-a-burly-nightclub-bouncer-denies-provoking-attack/

See claims she got up on a table to dance inside and he grabbed her down and dragged her outside and she's got the bruises to prove (she claims and shows some nasty looking ones in some pics), although she struggles to remember 'the exact course of events'. She also claims 'self defense'. That throws some gas on the fire

she throws the first punch and then claims self defence? rumpole of the bailey she is not.

MadDog76

riffmongous wrote: »

Bollocks.I gave up following the thread, I just reply to people who quote me so I didn't see it

You should know from reading this thread that you can't beat the girls!

One eyed Jack

soups05 wrote: »

For all the brave souls who would never hit a woman, no matter what, try rocking up to your local town center on a sat night and see how long your good manner last in the real world.

My good manner lasts just fine, and I've walked home sh*t-faced on my own many nights in many scumholes. My local city centre isn't any different than anywhere else and I'll often forego a cab at night in favour of walking home because quite frankly I need the exercise - I'm not the fit fcuk I once was, and more like the fat bastard I shouldn't be! :pac:

Summer wind

Well I've watched the video and read the thread. The conclusion I've come to is that both of them are in the wrong. Absolutely disgusting to see a woman in that state and a completely over the top reaction from the man.

Galwayguy35

pilly wrote: »

A punch to the face? Absolutely. Unless the woman is a trained assassin then any man worth his salt could restrain her in many different ways without punching her in the face.

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about.

I've seen a man who was over 6 ft bottled by a woman he was trying to clam down.

Take someone by surprise and even it they're bigger they could get hurt.

beauf

soups05 wrote: »

...For all the brave souls who would never hit a woman, no matter what, try rocking up to your local town center on a sat night and see how long your good manner last in the real world.

That it was a woman, I don't think is most peoples concern with it.

Sofiztikated

Ah FFS, why exactly did she need to show her bruises, wearing nowt but a thong? Bruises on her arm, thigh and lower leg.

Usual bull**** from the wannabe famous crowd, and The Sun (I can't believe I looked at that poxy site,) propagating it.

A Little Pony

She tried to assault him, he smacked her in the face, she deserved it.

Dublin Pintman

pilly wrote: »

Defend themselves against what? A drunken woman taking a swing? No defence needed.

Neither of my sons are ashamed of anything thank you very much. Very happy, well adjusted men with the utmost of respect for women.

Both have seen the video and think that he's a scumbag and a joke of a bouncer. They think it's a joke actually that someone who's supposed to be a trained "bouncer" needs to punch anyone.

Someone who instinctively takes a swing at a woman is the type of abusive arsehole who would hit his girlfriend/wife anyway. Also the type who wouldn't punch a man the same size as himself for fear he'd get as good back if not worse.

Both of my lads tell me that all of their friends think the same so Boards is obviously not representative on this issue. Doesn't surprise me though given the amount on here that are purely keyboard warriors.

Thanks be to ****.

So you've trained your boys not to defend themselves just because their attacker is a woman. Lol top notch parenting there.

Why on earth should you accept violence from just because it comes from a woman?

Someone attacks me and the gloves are off. My children will be taught the same.

El_Duderino 09

Contessa Raven wrote: »

From what I see in the video it was more of a smack and less of a thump. I didn't see his hand balled into a fist. Looked pretty flat. It also didn't knock her off her feet. He just slapped her in the face and she stumbled back presumably from the shock more than anything

What difference does it make whether it was open or closed hand? This sounds like a lot of work to presume it was more 'a smack than a thump'. What footage are you looking at because all I see is pixels when I look at the smack/thump.

ohnonotgmail

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What difference does it make whether it was open or closed hand? This sounds like a lot of work to presume it was more 'a smack than a thump'. What footage are you looking at because all I see is pixels when I look at the smack/thump.

would you rather be slapped or punched?

mikeym

:eek:

El_Duderino 09

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What difference does it make whether it was open or closed hand? This sounds like a lot of work to presume it was more 'a smack than a thump'. What footage are you looking at because all I see is pixels when I look at the smack/thump.

would you rather be slapped or punched?

Id consider myself to have been assaulted in either event. What's the difference in his case?

As I asked, how could you tel the difference based on the footage? Also see is pixels. If you claim to see detail then you're seeing your preference with your imagination.

Contessa Raven

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What difference does it make whether it was open or closed hand? This sounds like a lot of work to presume it was more 'a smack than a thump'. What footage are you looking at because all I see is pixels when I look at the smack/thump.

I'm assuming I'm looking at the same thing you are. Just stating what I could make out from it.
The shape of his hand/fist makes a big difference. A fist is more likely to knock someone out than a slap. It's a completely different type of pain/injury. You'll get a sting from a slap. You could lose a tooth/break a bone with a thump!
If the bouncer was a woman would there be this much uproar? I doubt it. Woman -v- woman would be more acceptable and that's wrong. If a man attacked me I'd give as good as I could no questions asked. If I attacked a man, I'd expect the same from him. I'm not a delicate little flower and if that woman thinks she is, then she shouldn't be going around throwing slaps at others.

Just my opinion.

MadDog76

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What difference does it make whether it was open or closed hand? This sounds like a lot of work to presume it was more 'a smack than a thump'. What footage are you looking at because all I see is pixels when I look at the smack/thump.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

As I asked, how could you tel the difference based on the footage? Also see is pixels. If you claim to see detail then you're seeing your preference with your imagination.

You might need to update the device you're watching the footage on .......It's quite clearly an open hand, ie. a slap rather than a punch ......... and obviously not a full-force slap at that evidenced by the fact that the inebriated, tight dress and high-heel wearing young "lady" stayed on her feet after the slap.

El_Duderino 09

Contessa Raven wrote:

I'm assuming I'm looking at the same thing you are. Just stating what I could make out from it. The shape of his hand/fist makes a big difference. A fist is more likely to knock someone out than a slap. It's a completely different type of pain/injury. You'll get a sting from a slap. You could lose a tooth/break a bone with a thump!

I can't make much of the fist/slap except a bunch of pixels. If you're saying you can tell the difference between a fist and a slap from the mesh of pixels, then you're making sh1t up to suit your opinion. Personally i don't see much difference between a fist and a slap in this case. Is one ok and the other not ok?

Contessa Raven wrote:

If the bouncer was a woman would there be this much uproar? I doubt it. Woman -v- woman would be more acceptable and that's wrong. If a man attacked me I'd give as good as I could no questions asked. If I attacked a man, I'd expect the same from him. I'm not a delicate little flower and if that woman thinks she is, then she shouldn't be going around throwing slaps at others.

I couldn't give a snot what gender the people involved are. I'm not making anything of ether's gender. They're both fairly quick to hit each other so theirs welcome to knock sh1t out of each other. I just wish these people would remove themselves from civilised society before behaving like this.

beauf

Think we have all bases covered now. Women was both not a threat and hardly struck. But also a deadly threat to life and limb, on par with someone with a gun and thus needed to be taken out with maximum force.

If only we can get a a failed peace treaty negotiation in that video somewhere we're all done.

El_Duderino 09

MadDog76 wrote:

You might need to update the device you're watching the footage on .......It's quite clearly an open hand, ie. a slap rather than a punch ......... and obviously not a full-force slap at that evidenced by the fact that the inebriated, tight dress and high-heel wearing young "lady" stayed on her feet after the slap.

It's obvious that she doesn't fall over. It's not obvious whether his hand is open or closed when it hits her.

What's the big difference between open and closed hand in this case? You're prepared to see what you want to see but for what purpose? Is open hand ok and closed fist not ok?

MadDog76

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's obvious that she doesn't fall over. It's not obvious whether his hand is open or closed when it hits her.

What's the big difference between open and closed hand in this case? You're prepared to see what you want to see but for what purpose? Is open hand ok and closed fist not ok?

It's obviously an open-handed slap ......... as I said, maybe you need to update the device you're watching the footage on and/or your glasses?

And it's very important as to whether or not the Bouncer lashed out with a full-force punch to the face or a reasonably-forced slap .......... she deserved the punch but the slap shows restraint on the Bouncer's part.