Moving back to Ireland with my Pakistani S.O

Clareh123

[font=arial, sans-serif]I'm not sure which forum to post in, I hope this is okay. I have a query that's a little bit complicated. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I have been living in South Korea for the past 3 years and met somebody there. He is from Pakistan and is due to complete a Global MBA at the end of August. I recently finished my job in Korea and am planning to move home to Ireland soon.  [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]After he finishes his MBA, my boyfriend would like to come to Ireland too, if we can sort out a visa. We were thinking about trying to get him a tourist visa so he can come for a few weeks in July, and look into some jobs while he's here. After that he would go back to Korea and finish up his studies. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]Ideally he would like to start a business here but I think it's better to try and get a normal job first. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I saw on the website there seems to be two types of visa he could get - joining a spouse/partner, or employment. I doubt he would qualify for the first one since we are not married. While I hope we will be together long term, I don't want to get married just for the purpose of his visa. But is there any possibility we could do that category of visa? What does 'partner' refer to? Civil partner? [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]For the second one, it seems like he would need to have a job lined up before coming, and they would have to sponsor his visa. Is this correct? Is this really hard to do? He is a polyglot (English, Korean, Pashto, Urdu, Arabic, Hindi, Persian) and founded an NGO previously, and he has some business experience. But I can't imagine it's easy to get a job with visa sponsorship, straight after doing a masters, especially if it's a job an Irish person could do. [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I feel like there is a fairly substantial Pakistani community in Ireland so I suppose I'm curious how they all manage to get visas. A lot seem to work in shops and security. I can't imagine that shops and bars and stuff sponsor people's visas, or do they? [/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]I would really appreciate any information and advice!  [/font]

coylemj

Clareh123 wrote: »

I feel like there is a fairly substantial Pakistani community in Ireland so I suppose I'm curious how they all manage to get visas. A lot seem to work in shops and security. I can't imagine that shops and bars and stuff sponsor people's visas, or do they?

A lot of the Pakistani/Bangladeshi population in Ireland who work in bars and security as you say are most likely immigrants from the UK so they probably never went through any kind of visa process because they have UK passports. Some of them may have arrived as refugees but most have probably come here as immigrants from the large Asian community in the UK. I suspect the number who came direct with visas is tiny and they probably all work in medicine or IT.

Clareh123

coylemj wrote: »

Clareh123 wrote: »

I feel like there is a fairly substantial Pakistani community in Ireland so I suppose I'm curious how they all manage to get visas. A lot seem to work in shops and security. I can't imagine that shops and bars and stuff sponsor people's visas, or do they?

A lot of the Pakistani/Bangladeshi population in Ireland who work in bars and security as you say are most likely immigrants from the UK so they probably never went through any kind of visa process because they have UK passports. Some of them may have arrived as refugees but most have probably come here as immigrants from the large Asian community in the UK. I suspect the number who came direct with visas is tiny and they probably all work in medicine or IT.

Ah I see, that makes sense. Doesn't sound very promising for this situation though
Does anyone think it might be easier to get a Shengen employment visa? Ideally we want to move to Ireland, but if it's impossible we would look at somewhere like Germany. I also have a German passport, if that makes a difference?

infogiver

Hi
Here's contact details for the immigrant council of Ireland who will be happy to fill you in on you and your partners rights regarding his coming to stay in Ireland.
Unfortunately the information is only available via a telephone service but all the details are here:

http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/#Contact

Really Interested

Clareh123 wrote: »

Ah I see, that makes sense. Doesn't sound very promising for this situation though
Does anyone think it might be easier to get a Shengen employment visa? Ideally we want to move to Ireland, but if it's impossible we would look at somewhere like Germany. I also have a German passport, if that makes a difference?

Are ye living together? Does your return to Europe have to be Ireland?

If he satisfy the defacto visa requirement and ye want to try living in another EU country for a while first you may make life a lot easier for ye both.

Clareh123

Thanks for all the info, we will definitely try the immigrant council's helpline. 
Somebody asked if we are living together. We lived separately as I lived in an apartment that was funded by my job, and I have been staying with him since my job ended, until I move home. We have been together about a year and a half.
Ideally we want to live in Ireland, but we are also open to Germany, because I also have German citizenship and lived there previously. However my boyfriend doesn't speak any German so I'm worried that will lower his chances of having his visa accepted. Plus I heard it's very hard to find a place to live these days due to the extent of immigration there. I will definitely look into it more though. 
The whole thing is very frustrating because I just want to move home and contribute to society, and it feels like I have to choose between my relationship and moving home. Hopefully we can manage to find a way.

infogiver

Clareh123 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, we will definitely try the immigrant council's helpline. 
Somebody asked if we are living together. We lived separately as I lived in an apartment that was funded by my job, and I have been staying with him since my job ended, until I move home. We have been together about a year and a half.
Ideally we want to live in Ireland, but we are also open to Germany, because I also have German citizenship and lived there previously. However my boyfriend doesn't speak any German so I'm worried that will lower his chances of having his visa accepted. Plus I heard it's very hard to find a place to live these days due to the extent of immigration there. I will definitely look into it more though. 
The whole thing is very frustrating because I just want to move home and contribute to society, and it feels like I have to choose between my relationship and moving home. Hopefully we can manage to find a way.

Like every other Western Europe country Ireland has a complicated relationship with immigrants in particular from Visa required countries.
We are still in a state of high unemployment and there is currently a housing crisis of emergency status.
There was a very high level of immigration fraud going on for quite a while involving Asian men marrying European women who they didn't appear to have ever met before, so that was a problem too and it left people open to exploitation as well.
I know it's frustrating for both of you but there are very sensible reasons for the rules and it may take considerable effort but you'll get there in the end.

Really Interested

Clareh123 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, we will definitely try the immigrant council's helpline. 
Somebody asked if we are living together. We lived separately as I lived in an apartment that was funded by my job, and I have been staying with him since my job ended, until I move home. We have been together about a year and a half.
Ideally we want to live in Ireland, but we are also open to Germany, because I also have German citizenship and lived there previously. However my boyfriend doesn't speak any German so I'm worried that will lower his chances of having his visa accepted. Plus I heard it's very hard to find a place to live these days due to the extent of immigration there. I will definitely look into it more though. 
The whole thing is very frustrating because I just want to move home and contribute to society, and it feels like I have to choose between my relationship and moving home. Hopefully we can manage to find a way.

Just as a hint a EU national moving to a country in the Union not of their citizenship in you case not Ireland or Germany, has a EU right to reside with their spouse or partner (and family) because of EU Court of Justice case law that EU citizen has a right after leaving the other EU country and then return to say Ireland retains the EU rights.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Clareh123 wrote: »

But I can't imagine it's easy to get a job with visa sponsorship, straight after doing a masters, especially if it's a job an Irish person could do.

Last company I worked (software development) in had a few people in on employment permits, wasn't especially difficult to do. Not clear what exactly your SO background has but with an MBA he might qualify for a highly skilled work permit. With that he should be able to get a visa.

If he is here in summer he should make contact with companies that might value MBA skills/his international language skills e.g. Enterprise Ireland, the big consultancy firms (Accenture, Pwc, etc.), big Irish international looking companies (CHR, Kerry Group, etc.)

Clareh123

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! Lots of useful tips for us. 

I do understand why there needs to be restrictions but it doesn't make it less of a pain in the ass haha. I feel like the fact he is from Pakistan will raise a few eyebrows, because of fears around Islam, terrorism etc. But to be honest, I think my boyfriend will fit in much better in Ireland than Pakistan, and that's one of the reasons he wants to come here. He no longer follows Islam and has very open minded views in relation to LGBT rights etc. So going back to live in Pakistan would be very hard for him. 

Really Interested wrote: »

Just as a hint a EU national moving to a country in the Union not of their citizenship in you case not Ireland or Germany, has a EU right to reside with their spouse or partner (and family) because of EU Court of Justice case law that EU citizen has a right after leaving the other EU country and then return to say Ireland retains the EU rights.

This comment in particular caught my attention. Does this mean we could live in another EU country for a period and then he would be allowed to live in Ireland? Would he have to get an employment visa or something, or would it be enough that we are together, even though we are not married? I can see this being a bit tricky since he can't speak any European languages apart from English, and I can only speak German (so maybe Austria? Switzerland?)

Clareh123

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! Lots of useful tips for us. 

I do understand why there needs to be restrictions but it doesn't make it less of a pain in the ass haha. I feel like the fact he is from Pakistan will raise a few eyebrows, because of fears around Islam, terrorism etc. But to be honest, I think my boyfriend will fit in much better in Ireland than Pakistan, and that's one of the reasons he wants to come here. He no longer follows Islam and has very open minded views in relation to LGBT rights etc. So going back to live in Pakistan would be very hard for him. 

Really Interested wrote: »

Just as a hint a EU national moving to a country in the Union not of their citizenship in you case not Ireland or Germany, has a EU right to reside with their spouse or partner (and family) because of EU Court of Justice case law that EU citizen has a right after leaving the other EU country and then return to say Ireland retains the EU rights.

This comment in particular caught my attention. Does this mean we could live in another EU country for a period and then he would be allowed to live in Ireland? Would he have to get an employment visa or something, or would it be enough that we are together, even though we are not married? I can see this being a bit tricky since he can't speak any European languages apart from English, and I can only speak German (so maybe Austria? Switzerland?)

Really Interested

Clareh123 wrote: »

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! Lots of useful tips for us. 

I do understand why there needs to be restrictions but it doesn't make it less of a pain in the ass haha. I feel like the fact he is from Pakistan will raise a few eyebrows, because of fears around Islam, terrorism etc. But to be honest, I think my boyfriend will fit in much better in Ireland than Pakistan, and that's one of the reasons he wants to come here. He no longer follows Islam and has very open minded views in relation to LGBT rights etc. So going back to live in Pakistan would be very hard for him. 

This comment in particular caught my attention. Does this mean we could live in another EU country for a period and then he would be allowed to live in Ireland? Would he have to get an employment visa or something, or would it be enough that we are together, even though we are not married? I can see this being a bit tricky since he can't speak any European languages apart from English, and I can only speak German (so maybe Austria? Switzerland?)

A EU citizen moves to another EU country to work they are entitled to have their partner join them (that definition of partner depends on your facts) there is no need for visas or work permits. If after a period of time the couple want to move to Ireland then the EU rule will still apply. It's a complex area of law and it would be advised to get real advice.