What rail line do you think could be re-opened?

n97 mini

Having been on trains in the UK that were re-routed around closures I can see the benefit to alternative paths, which is why I think the Athlone-Mullingar section would probably be the most useful if re-opened: it would give an alternative path from the West to Dublin in the case of engineering works, mechanical failures, etc.

Are there any other potentially useful lines that could be re-opened?

Salmon Leap

The South Wexford line to open up Rosslare Europort to the south and west of the country.

n97 mini

Salmon Leap wrote: »

The South Wexford line to open up Rosslare Europort to the south and west of the country.

Chronically low population densities along that line and I think it might have been more useful if the line from Waterford ran into Wexford instead of Rosslare; at least then there'd be alternative pathing from Dublin to Waterford or Wexford.

Salmon Leap

You don't necessarily need to re-open the stations along the line, it's the connection that is important. If there was no demand for example to re-open, say Campile or Wellingtonbridge then leave them closed.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Chronically low population densities along that line and I think it might have been more useful if the line from Waterford ran into Wexford instead of Rosslare; at least then there'd be alternative pathing from Dublin to Waterford or Wexford.

was still viable though for the so called service provided and more. only for the fact ballybroaphy branch had some bit of a high profile support base it likely would have gone instead.
wexford was a better destination and the trains should have run right through to limerick junction. to late now though.


the most obvious reopenings apart from south wexford would be indeed athlone mullingar, and if it hadn't been converted to luas, brey harcourt street (all though harcourt street wouldn't reopen) . would have cost but would have been worth the expence. after that, some stuff up north, to omagh and armagh at least. after that, i can't think of any.

Del.Monte

The Waterford/Rosslare Strand line should not have been closed and the short direct curve between Felthouse Junction and Killinick Junction (closed c.1911) should have been reinstated. This would have enabled direct services to and from Waterford from a whole range of towns on the South East coast and the population density of hamlets along the line such as Campile, Wellingtonbridge etc. would have become totally irrelevant.

It could still be done, but with the useless shower of politicians we have - especially the local fools like Brendan Howlin and Paul Kehoe - there's no chance. In fact there is NO chance given the attitude of the useless fecker (Ciaran Cuffe) in the Green Party who presided over the the lines' closure while overseeing the opening of the WRC. If the Greens don't promote the railways, who will?

Del.Monte

It's just like the Phoenix Park tunnel - waiting to be discovered and reinvented.

Banjoxed

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Waterford/Rosslare Strand line should not have been closed and the short direct curve between Felthouse Junction and Killinick Junction (closed c.1911) should have been reinstated. This would have enabled direct services to and from Waterford from a whole range of towns on the South East coast and the population density of hamlets along the line such as Campile, Wellingtonbridge etc. would have become totally irrelevant.

It could still be done, but with the useless shower of politicians we have - especially the local fools like Brendan Howlin and Paul Kehoe - there's no chance. In fact there is NO chance given the attitude of the useless fecker (Ciaran Cuffe) in the Green Party who presided over the the lines' closure while overseeing the opening of the WRC. If the Greens don't promote the railways, who will?

Indeed. There was a lot of wilful and deliberate bullsh!t put about the low population densities of south Wexford when its main purpose was a strategic connection from Rosslare to the south and west. Not for the first time, a line was run down to the point of uselessness before IR threw its hand.

L1011

Cork-Limerick direct. Either road to Navan (for passengers) although the Northern Line would need capacity works first. Think that Cork would benefit more from a modern design for light rail rather than reopening bits of disconnected lines.

Portadown road to Derry.

Some form of light rail system using the vast amount of trackbed around Limerick - 1600mm so it can share the main approaches with normal trains.

Stub of the Tullow line to get a station actually in Naas.

Some branches or stubs of lines I'd wait until there's more population in the catchment area - Ardee branch, Mallow-Fermoy, Galway-Moycullen

XPS_Zero

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Waterford/Rosslare Strand line should not have been closed and the short direct curve between Felthouse Junction and Killinick Junction (closed c.1911) should have been reinstated. This would have enabled direct services to and from Waterford from a whole range of towns on the South East coast and the population density of hamlets along the line such as Campile, Wellingtonbridge etc. would have become totally irrelevant.

It could still be done, but with the useless shower of politicians we have - especially the local fools like Brendan Howlin and Paul Kehoe - there's no chance. In fact there is NO chance given the attitude of the useless fecker (Ciaran Cuffe) in the Green Party who presided over the the lines' closure while overseeing the opening of the WRC. If the Greens don't promote the railways, who will?

It's funny you say that.

I gave them my no2 because I figured a green party would prioritise two things:
-Alternative Energy (I thought Ireland was ideal for wind and wave power)
-Public Transport

Instead they presided over the death of the Transport 21 plan. I know I know I know recession recession recession...ever hear of the TVA? Big projects by the govt during recessions are good things, of course you can't fund them all, but funding ones that would provide a net plus financially are no brainers.

It really really annoyed me, and cost them any future votes, when they p1ssed away their one chance in govt with light bulbs and fur farms.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

It's funny you say that.

I gave them my no2 because I figured a green party would prioritise two things:
-Alternative Energy (I thought Ireland was ideal for wind and wave power)
-Public Transport

Instead they presided over the death of the Transport 21 plan. I know I know I know recession recession recession...ever hear of the TVA? Big projects by the govt during recessions are good things, of course you can't fund them all, but funding ones that would provide a net plus financially are no brainers.

It really really annoyed me, and cost them any future votes, when they p1ssed away their one chance in govt with light bulbs and fur farms.

well, just be greatful we now know their true colours. don't bank on them not getting into government again though, people do keep voting ffg after all.

man98

Del.Monte wrote: »

The Waterford/Rosslare Strand line should not have been closed and the short direct curve between Felthouse Junction and Killinick Junction (closed c.1911) should have been reinstated. This would have enabled direct services to and from Waterford from a whole range of towns on the South East coast and the population density of hamlets along the line such as Campile, Wellingtonbridge etc. would have become totally irrelevant.

It could still be done, but with the useless shower of politicians we have - especially the local fools like Brendan Howlin and Paul Kehoe - there's no chance. In fact there is NO chance given the attitude of the useless fecker (Ciaran Cuffe) in the Green Party who presided over the the lines' closure while overseeing the opening of the WRC. If the Greens don't promote the railways, who will?

Compeletely agree regarding the curve skipping Rosslare and its reopening should be prioritised however it was Labour councillors and indeed Brendan Howlin that were the only ones fighting the line's closure in the first place - from what I saw anyway.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

end of the road

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

just about. inspection cars go down the odd time. apparently there is a loco ban on the bridge now (hmmmm, funny that)

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

brey harcourt street (all though harcourt street wouldn't reopen) . would have cost but would have been worth the expence.

Baloney.

The luas does a far more effective job and is way more flexible. The Harcourt street line is no longer a sad story of closure.

Del.Monte

Grandeeod wrote: »

Baloney.

The luas does a far more effective job and is way more flexible. The Harcourt street line is no longer a sad story of closure.

Have to agree with you there. The Luas provides a far superior, more frequent service than a heavy rail operation and it penetrates to the heart of the city which the old line never did.

Jamie2k9

n97 mini wrote: »

Having been on trains in the UK that were re-routed around closures I can see the benefit to alternative paths, which is why I think the Athlone-Mullingar section would probably be the most useful if re-opened: it would give an alternative path from the West to Dublin in the case of engineering works, mechanical failures, etc.

Are there any other potentially useful lines that could be re-opened?

Athlnie/Mullingar or South Wexford however I would prefer to see a double tracked network with Limerick-Limerick J and Athlone-Portarlington.

end of the road

Grandeeod wrote: »

Baloney.

nope. not baloney.

Grandeeod wrote: »

The luas does a far more effective job and is way more flexible.

not really. heavy rail offers greater capacity straight out of the box, + highly frequent heavy rail is done all over the world. i will give you trams being easier to get in and out of the city but so could a rail line if put underground within the city confines. it can be integrated with the existing rail network as well.

Grandeeod wrote: »

The Harcourt street line is no longer a sad story of closure.

correct it's a lot more

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

nope. not baloney.



not really. heavy rail offers greater capacity straight out of the box, + highly frequent heavy rail is done all over the world, just because IE can't seem to manage it doesn't mean it can't be done. i will give you trams being easier to get in and out of the city but so could a rail line if put underground within the city confines. it can be integrated with the existing rail network as well.



correct it's a lot more

It is baloney. If you want a detailed debate about it, lets fire away.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you are talking about in terms of the Harcourt street line and its reopening/reinvention. You are stuck in a timewarp.

EireGrif

If my money is not object, Tralee to Limerick rail. Would building new railway to Castleisland.

monument

end of the road wrote: »

nope. not baloney.



not really. heavy rail offers greater capacity straight out of the box, + highly frequent heavy rail is done all over the world. i will give you trams being easier to get in and out of the city but so could a rail line if put underground within the city confines. it can be integrated with the existing rail network as well.



correct it's a lot more

Where in the world with a similar city size has heavy rail witn the capacity and frequency of the Luas green line? Does the off-peak frequency compare well to Luas? Do such lines pay their operational costs like Luas?

Isambard

I don't think any line will be reopening, but locally I'd say Newcastlewest/Adare/Patrickswell/Limerick might serve a quite high population

XPS_Zero

Deedsie wrote: »

I'd invest in the current open lines to improve them. Ballybrophy line needs investment in the infrastructure of the line or it will be forced to close.

There are certain lines where investment in speed, frequency etc would improve passenger numbers. But the Ballybrophy line is just stuck in such a low pop density zone that no amount of money is going to make any difference.

People usually bring up the 'social function' point, but like BE, you can run services for a social function at a loss, but when there is nearly no revenue coming in from ticket sales and barely any passengers, you're spending an unholy fortune per passenger to keep a line open...in that case there is no argument for keeping it.

With the Ballybrophy lines original closure discussion coming up a few months back, it greatly amused me to see people calling up radio stations saying "I use it Joe, I use it all de time tiz a great owl service"
Yes Mary...but we weren't saying NOBODY uses it, just that not enough people use it, we can't keep the line open just for Mary, Jane and Paddy if they're the only passengers. It would be a great service for me if the Enterprise, instead of dropping me off in Connoly, went right to my local DART station and saved me the transfer, but that doesn't mean doing that's a good idea.

boardsuser1

Cork to Youghal in full.

It reopened as far as Midleton in 2009.

The last train to go beyond Midleton was in 1988.

In 1992 and 2008 there was over 7 of the 15 miles of track lifted.

Whilst this was earmarked as a greenway, I think reopening the line would be more viable given the volume of traffic on the N25 and the expansion of the towns served in the near 30 years since the last train.

The other would be the west cork line.

Isambard

maybe you should wait until it's closed to include it in this thread?

(Lim/Ballybrophy that is

tabbey

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think any line will be reopening, but locally I'd say Newcastlewest/Adare/Patrickswell/Limerick might serve a quite high population

Sooner or later at least some of the West Limerick / North Kerry line will merit reopening as a commuter route, even if it is only to Adare or Patrickswell.
It is important that the alignment be protected, at least to Foynes to permit reopening in due course.
This is especially true for the direct curve into Limerick passenger terminus, long out of use and I think a bridge has been removed.

Isambard

that was my thinking, if the line to Foynes is to be reopened, makes sense to look at passenger services. I doubt it would be viable beyond NCW, but that could be a railhead for a wide area

n97 mini

KC161 wrote: »

Cork to Youghal in full.

If it had originally gone to Dungarvan and on to Waterford I could see the point, but i think with the distance to Youghal and the low population it wouldn't be worth the running costs.

n97 mini

Deedsie wrote: »

I'd invest in the current open lines to improve them. Ballybrophy line needs investment in the infrastructure of the line or it will be forced to close.

I don't think you're objective as you've a vested interest and that's your entitlement, but it's very hard to justify the required investment in that line to upgrade it. It basically needs to be torn up and rebuilt with a pile of bridges and/or tunnels. It really is a good example of a line not fit for purpose in 21st century Ireland.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

If it had originally gone to Dungarvan and on to Waterford I could see the point, but i think with the distance to Youghal and the low population it wouldn't be worth the running costs.

and then again it very much could be worth the running costs. as we don't know what they would be we can't say either way.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

and then again it very much could be worth the running costs. as we don't know what they would be we can't say either way.

Rather than contradicting you need to refute arguments. Back them up with facts.

It is a fact that the population served by an extension just to Youghal would serve a very small population.

boardsuser1

n97 mini wrote: »

Rather than contradicting you need to refute arguments. Back them up with facts.

It is a fact that the population served by an extension just to Youghal would serve a very small population.

I'd have thought with the expansion of Kileagh,Mogeely,Castlemartyr and Youghal over the last 29 years would have justified it.

I'm not a major railway enthusiast though, so I have no idea.

n97 mini

KC161 wrote: »

I'd have thought with the expansion of Kileagh,Mogeely,Castlemartyr and Youghal over the last 29 years would have justified it.

I'm not a major railway enthusiast though, so I have no idea.

Populations
Kileagh 521, Mogeely 327, Castlemartyr 1,277, Youghal 7,101.

In comparison Navan in 31,689.

boardsuser1

n97 mini wrote: »

Populations
Kileagh 521, Mogeely 327, Castlemartyr 1,277, Youghal 7,101.

In comparison Navan in 31,689.

Which census is that from? 2006?

Excluding businesses along the way?

AngryLips

Introduction of Drogheda-Navan passenger services would seem to make sense, extend some of the Drogheda-terminating suburban services to Navan.

Isambard

KC161 wrote: »

Which census is that from? 2006?

Excluding businesses along the way?

there isn't much beyond Midleton in fairness. They got it right imo only opening that far.

loyatemu

RUI proposed a timetable for a passenger service from Navan via Drogheda - that's the only one I could see being a runner.

Athlone - Mullingar looks like it would be useful on paper, but it was hardly used when it was open and both towns have service anyway (& Moate is pretty small).

The govt/IR would get far more bang for it's buck by dual tracking the Galway line; tri/quad-tracking the Northern line or electrifying the Maynooth line.

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

there isn't much beyond Midleton in fairness. They got it right imo only opening that far.

They didn't get it right - Midleton/Youghal was never even considered as it was not included in the ancient Cork Land Use & Transportation Study. Reopening to Youghal would add lots of traffic to the line and with proper planning the likes of Killeagh and Mogeely could become new towns with proper infrastructure.

Del.Monte

loyatemu wrote: »

RUI proposed a timetable for a passenger service from Navan via Drogheda - that's the only one I could see being a runner.

Athlone - Mullingar looks like it would be useful on paper, but it was hardly used when it was open and both towns have service anyway (& Moate is pretty small).

The govt/IR would get far more bang for it's buck by dual tracking the Galway line; tri/quad-tracking the Northern line or electrifying the Maynooth line.

Blatantly untrue and the Athlone/Mullingar section was quite busy until CIE decided to shove everything on to the Athlone/Portarlington line.

loyatemu

Del.Monte wrote: »

They didn't get it right - Midleton/Youghal was never even considered as it was not included in the ancient Cork Land Use & Transportation Study. Reopening to Youghal would add lots of traffic to the line and with proper planning the likes of Killeagh and Mogeely could become new towns with proper infrastructure.

It would only be justified if (as you propose) the towns on the line were greatly expanded. But why do that when there's plenty of scope for developing land closer to Cork - it's like developers building estates in Portlaoise because it's "only" an hour from Dublin by train, it's crazy planning.

loyatemu

Del.Monte wrote: »

Blatantly untrue and the Athlone/Mullingar section was quite busy until CIE decided to shove everything on to the Athlone/Portarlington line.

Wasn't there only one passenger train a week on it for many years?

Presumably IR have done the maths on it's strategic value as an alternative route versus the cost of keeping it open.

AngryLips

loyatemu wrote: »

RUI proposed a timetable for a passenger service from Navan via Drogheda - that's the only one I could see being a runner.

Really? What would the running time be for such a service?

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

Wasn't there only one passenger train a week on it for many years?

Presumably IR have done the maths on it's strategic value as an alternative route versus the cost of keeping it open.

IE supposibly doing the maths doesn't mean much if anything to be fair. CIE had an agenda to shut that line and when a line is shut it rarely reopens.

n97 mini

AngryLips wrote: »

Really? What would the running time be for such a service?

http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/navan/navan_drogheda.php

loyatemu

AngryLips wrote: »

Really? What would the running time be for such a service?

http://railusers.ie/campaigns/navan/navan_timetable_morning.pdf

this was in 2005 though, the M3 wasn't even open so it's probably not competitive with current bus times.

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

They didn't get it right - Midleton/Youghal was never even considered as it was not included in the ancient Cork Land Use & Transportation Study. Reopening to Youghal would add lots of traffic to the line and with proper planning the likes of Killeagh and Mogeely could become new towns with proper infrastructure.

It's more efficient to have Midleton as a railhead drawing traffic from the surrounding countryside, which would include Youghal et al. Extend to Youghal and you still won't serve the majority of the area, and many would still have to drive to the station. I think it makes sense for them to drive to Midleton from all directions. You really can't service small villages with a railway line.

As a comparison look at Didcot Parkway in the UK. It serves a large section of countryside between Didcot and Swindon including Wantage, a fairly large country town and Grove, virtually a New Town and Abingdon and several large villages/small towns that make Youghal look like a tiddler. The Vale used to have several small stations, there never has been any case made reopen them, even though the line through them is still open.

boardsuser1

Isambard wrote: »

there isn't much beyond Midleton in fairness. They got it right imo only opening that far.

Not much beyond Midleton?

The N25 as a whole is a major traffic blackspot.

Reopening that line would ease the traffic on the roads there.

The M25 won't be open in my life time to ease the issues there.

When i worked in East Cork from Midleton onwards, the locals all said the line should have been continued the full length.

Even David Stanton the Midleton TD called for it.

There was always a true saying going around, if the Cobh line is still open there will always be hope for Youghal.

And before people mention the tourist season in Cobh, that is all that is keeping that line going, i travelled on both the Midleton and Cobh trains, they are definitely loss making in their current format.

The government wants to get people out of their cars and into public transport? They have the opportunity but won't take it.

Reinventing the West Cork line is all but gone.

Given the amount of land now in private ownership plus road development since 1961.

An M71 is highly unlikely i would think.

Isambard

I can't help but think bypassing Killeagh and Castlematyr would cost much the same as rebuilding Midleton to Youghal railway and benefit far more people.

boardsuser1

Isambard wrote: »

I can't help but think bypassing Killeagh and Castlematyr would cost much the same as rebuilding Midleton to Youghal railway and benefit far more people.

That may well be in the plan, and mother of god bypassing those 2 villages is something i pray for every week with the levels of traffic on it.

I think the biggest problem in reopening the Youghal line is the bog road and the issues with subsidence?

This thread discussed it before. The poll is only a small amount of people but it still speaks for itself.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057139245

tabbey

Del.Monte wrote: »

Blatantly untrue and the Athlone/Mullingar section was quite busy until CIE decided to shove everything on to the Athlone/Portarlington line.

Yes - Mullingar to Athlone should be restored, it and Athlone - Galway had perhaps the fastest alignment in the country. Together they could provide a very fast Enfield - Galway service. The problem of course is the tortuous route between Maynooth and Dublin.

At least we could have double track for most of the Dublin - Galway route without earthworks that would be required between Portarlington and Athlone.

marno21

KC161 wrote: »

Not much beyond Midleton?

The N25 as a whole is a major traffic blackspot.

Reopening that line would ease the traffic on the roads there.

The M25 won't be open in my life time to ease the issues there.

When i worked in East Cork from Midleton onwards, the locals all said the line should have been continued the full length.

Even David Stanton the Midleton TD called for it.

There was always a true saying going around, if the Cobh line is still open there will always be hope for Youghal.

And before people mention the tourist season in Cobh, that is all that is keeping that line going, i travelled on both the Midleton and Cobh trains, they are definitely loss making in their current format.

The government wants to get people out of their cars and into public transport? They have the opportunity but won't take it.

Reinventing the West Cork line is all but gone.

Given the amount of land now in private ownership plus road development since 1961.

An M71 is highly unlikely i would think.

It would be more advantageous if a large Park and Ride was built along the N25 nearer Cork and this was used for people to get to Cork, inconjunction with the N25 Carrigtwohill-Youghal dual carraigeway to get the joke levels of traffic out of Castlemartyr and Killeagh. Passenger services to Youghal may not be seen as viable but I think there's a case considering the extreme commute times to Cork (the 7am bus from Youghal just about makes CIT for 9am - that's obscene)

Regarding the West Cork line, considering the N71 on approach to the Bandon Road R/A is carrying 24k vehicles a day there could be some viability in a rail line but the alignment is beyond destroyed. The trackbed from the South Ring into the city centre is now occupied by the N27 South City Link Road and most of the alignment further out is now farmland.

An M71 may not be seen as viable due to the fact it's a national secondary but I would say an M71 is very likely to be built between now and 2035.