LED Street Lights vs Sodium Streetlights

ToddyDoody

We're trying to get rid of the lead water pipes while introducing LED streetlights.

Imagine motion sensor street lighting. Very easily done but far too annoying?

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, it's an unnecessary waste of energy, pollutes a far greater distance than the intended area.

The cheaper the light the greater the waste so more light will be installed and there won't be a huge reduction in energy.

In actual fact there's little energy benefit in the wattage V lumen output of led flood lights V gas discharge lamps in the first place.

Street lights need to be suitable for their environment , bright where needed and not bright in the sticks to light up 2 houses every 2 Kms and junctions where 5 cars may pass every 2 hrs. Motorway slip roads lit all over the country 2 Km either lane, it's a joke. Some people actually like the night and the night sky.

Mega bright light in housing estates is annoying and not needed when people are asleep.

Yes I agree on motorway and similar junction types you outlined.

But for security in built up areas it's a good thing having good light.

Look at the M50 the poles are way too close even every 2nd one could do.

ToddyDoody

ToddyDoody wrote: »

We're trying to get rid of the lead water pipes while introducing LED streetlights.

Imagine motion sensor street lighting. Very easily done but far too annoying?

Absolutely, lights flashing on and off all over the place would drive you insane.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes I agree on motorway and similar junction types you outlined.

But for security in built up areas it's a good thing having good light.

Look at the M50 the poles are way too close even every 2nd one could do.

No I simply don't agree with wasting millions of euro's of energy keeping everything lit up when the majority of people are in bed.

The N7 it up so insanely from the big ball to newlands cross is another scandalous waste of energy, it's so unnecessary.

ToddyDoody

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely, lights flashing on and off all over the place would drive you insane.

You could always have them switching from dim to less dim.

That will still cause a flashing effect.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely, lights flashing on and off all over the place would drive you insane.

if you went down that route you wouldnt have one fitted to each streetlamp, you would have a series of streetlights lighting up on a estate in rows, and they wouldnt flash on and off , you could get them to stay on for one or 2 minutes up to 10mins and then go off - thats what normal PIR 500w flood lights do . - mind you bloody cats and dogs and every other animal normally sets them off too! - but even with todays technology there are more elaborate more pricey PIR's that have built in control for false trigger of cats/dogs/birds/falling leaves!

It does mean though that when people are asleep and there is no movement on the estate the lights could go off .

As you say though -it could get annoying with some people in the end, and the council would have to revert to the way it was before , therefore wasting money.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

It does mean though that when people are asleep and there is no movement on the estate the lights could go off .

That actually would be a good thing, we don't need so much street lighting when everyone is in bed.

Think about Summer, lights come on maybe 10:00pm height of Summer and off at midnight and then they would not need to come on again until the following night. That's a real money saver.

Street lights used to annoy me when I was trying to sleep in my old house anyway.

ED E

The LAST thing you want is the entire street to illuminate when you're stumbling home from the pub at 2AM.

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

The LAST thing you want is the entire street to illuminate when you're stumbling home from the pub at 2AM.

oh i dont know - could have a tannoy system as well as they light up and it could announce "what time do you call this!"

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely, lights flashing on and off all over the place would drive you insane.

Unlike the discharge lamps LED's can be very easily controlled. You just ramp them up or down over a few seconds.

In the future smart lamps could turn on the next one before you get there.

In the dystopian future of micropayments number plate recognition could bill you for the light as you pass. (in reality variable tolls are being looked into and all cars will have GPS and stuff)

Asdfghjkl987

Anyone know the story with Dublin City Councils rollout plan of LED street lighting? Read somewhere a few months back that all LPS lights would be changed to LED by 2020 but I haven’t seen that many changed as of yet.

Andy From Sligo

it will be interesting in the future when all but a few street lights are changed to LEDE and the council will be making substantial savings in electricity bill for them - thing is will they pass the savings back to the rate payer? ... I doubt it, maybe the large outlay needed in terms of new equipment (complete new LED street lamps or retrofit LED heads) and labour for their contractors to fit/replace these lights will cost an awful lot .. I suppose they are looking how much money they will be saving long term by changing all the lights

Whats the betting seeing as we are in the EU as well that there is some directive putting pressure on Ireland and other EU countries to change totally over to LED as well, EU is already dictating to people about what wattage hoovers and appliances can be sold ... and they managed to get away with banning the 100w incandescent bulb too ... theres a lot more to come

That's the thing, there isn't substantial savings over gas discharge lamps. LEDs are not magic, they're not that better than compact florescents either.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the thing, there isn't substantial savings over gas discharge lamps. LEDs are not magic, they're not that better than compact florescents either.

well more people (especially earth loving people) will welcome LED because they have no mercury in them - CFL's have mercury, LPS/HPs have mercury.

I suppose where the councils are thinking on savings is the (well documented , but I dont know about IRL) lifetime of LED lamps compared to the others - longer lifetime, less replacements once they are fitted , less labour / contract charges = substantial savings in that way.

These LED head replacements though , if they have opted for the cheap route though they are going to be finding out that LED does not last forever like the LED manufacturers would want you to believe. Sure LED itself has no filament in them , but for them to be sucessful the board has to have good solder joints (no dry joints) , the LED's and components have to be sufficiently kept cool with heatsinks etc, the other components on the board like capacitors diodes and resistors all have to be quality ... otherwise this wonderful LED technology should last for years and years before it ever needs replacing can need changing very very soon if its made with cheap quality components that will fail long before the LED lamp itself fails

Andy From Sligo

bought 4 of these LED bulbs out of Poundland/DEALZ .. they lasted months before giving up/not working

Not for one minute comparing to what the type of LED's head the councils are buying/fitting at all ... but you know you cant believe everything you hear about them lasting years.

ED E

Dealz and industrial suppliers? Lay off the gargle Andy.....

Andy From Sligo

ED E wrote: »

Dealz and industrial suppliers? Lay off the gargle Andy.....

That's why I said that for one minute I was suggesting the council's or contractors would buy their equipment from dubious cheap suppliers but what I am getting at is that when you get components that are mass produced and at knock down prices these days you can get faulty components and that the LED equipment they are replacing sodium with may not necessarily last the amount of years they want

Capt'n Midnight

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

bought 4 of these LED bulbs out of Poundland/DEALZ .. they lasted months before giving up/not working

Not for one minute comparing to what the type of LED's head the councils are buying/fitting at all ... but you know you cant believe everything you hear about them lasting years.

odd that.


LEDs should be lasting 50,000 hours.


The power supplies, well that's a completely different matter.
CFL - they depend on electrolytic capacitors, and they die like flies in the heat, and that's if you don't have the dodgy ones that decimated consumer products a while back.

The cheaper , nastier LED lights should last longer !
Because they don't have SMPSU's instead they just limit current by using non-electrolytic capacitors and screw power factor correction.


Whatever bulb you use , please ensure the enclosure / lampshade has plenty of ventilation. Yes I know I've to drill holes in the chandelier, but if a man says he will do something he will. No need to remind him every six months.

With Sodium, you know fairly well how long it will last, with LED you do not. It can be a hit and miss, semiconductors are not as reliable as the tried and trusted Gas discharge lamp at least not in this stage of development, I've seen some fail in work a year or two after installation and they cost a pretty penny I heard.

Personally I hate yellow sodium lights and would rather see the back of that dirty filthy light and will welcome LED but they got to understand that some of them are a lot brighter and this is intolerable, they could save energy by installing a lower wattage bulb.

As I said beore, they don't need to and shouldn't be trying to turn the night into day. Apart from anything else it's not natural !

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the thing, there isn't substantial savings over gas discharge lamps. LEDs are not magic, they're not that better than compact florescents either.

They are.

CFL's emit dirty electricity :eek:

Only joking - that's complete BS especially if someone owns a mobile phone.


LEDs are now for the most part cheaper than CFL. And longer lasting, CFL's go dark as they suck more darkness in. LEDs not so much. Instant on is a benefit too.

Without measuring it I'm inclined to believe that LED's are brighter than CFL and have this suspicion that the Lumens are only after when stabilised or include the 30% of UV that instruments can measure but we can't see.

Capt'n Midnight

As an aside LED's can be nearly as monochromatic as low pressure sodium. So yes we could have high efficiency yellow if we wanted.

BTW the red colour when street lights are starting up is Neon.

And , it happened to me, CFL's also use Neon to get started, I had a CFL that must have had too little mercury as it had a nice red glow when it aged.

Andy From Sligo

well - they do measure LED by lumens - these 5w LED i got from DEALZ said on the box something like 'replaces 60w' but an incandescent bulb at 60 watt gives you 800lumens but the lumens figure on the box of the 5w LED was something like 330 lumens - in real life I had them in my living room and they didnt ever look bright enough with a lot of dark places - when they failed in a couple of months I whipped em out and replaced with 3 11w (or could be 14w) CFL's and the room was bright enough again .. and had a nice warmer glow. -

me personally I would say even now an 11w philips CFL will last years longer than a 5w LED cheap bulb - but my 11w philips bulbs from homebase cost around 2.99 each I think from Homebase - and the 5w LED bulbs were 1.50euro each from DEALZ

Yep, in that sense LED's have become more cheaper to buy than CFL's ... you would never think that would have been the case only a little while ago when LED bulbs first came out, they were very expensive

I've no real issue with LED and mostly I like the light especially the cooler end of the spectrum for outdoors there's nothing like it. But I do have issue with glare and ultra mega bright bulbs being installed.

A lot of LED bulbs sold in hardware stores are the cheapest crap, get brands like Philips and they do make a real difference. But they won't be cheaper than CFL and they won't be cheaper to run. Simple as that, LED's are not cheaper to run than CFL. Not the good LED bulbs, the cheap LEDs are simply not as good. You get what you pay for.

The only real advantages to LED over CFL are longer lasting and instant light, though modern CFLs warm up fast.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of LED bulbs sold in hardware stores are the cheapest crap, get brands like Philips and they do make a real difference. But they won't be cheaper than CFL and they won't be cheaper to run. Simple as that, LED's are not cheaper to run than CFL. Not the good LED bulbs, the cheap LEDs are simply not as good. You get what you pay for.

The only real advantages to LED over CFL are longer lasting and instant light, though modern CFLs warm up fast.

it might be a case of you get what you pay for but also let us remember the golden rule of 'not fit for purpose' and that stuff sold should be of merchandise-able quality ... whether you buy from a pound shop or somewhere else.

so dirt cheap anyway at 1.50each that i thought to myself you cant go wrong ... even if they didnt last 5minutes (I say that hypothetically) they did last a couple of months - you would spend more than 1.50 on a big mac and fries

In hindsight after cracking open one of these LED bulbs from dealz I saw no heatsink whatsoever (most probably to keep costs down) - I reckon components eventually overheated , just wondering if went I got them if I carefully drilled some holes in the plastic base (and the frosted cover was plastic as well was not glass) if that would have allowed some heat to dissipate and make the bulbs last longer because the manufacturer didnt even put any slots in the base to let any heat get out - and i think I do recall the base did get quite hot . Next time if i ever get some more of them I think I will try doing that, drilling some holes for ventilation.

here's what was in the base of the cheap LED's I got from DEALZ:

clintondaly

I have every bulb in my house changed to LED with about 2 years using Dealz LEDs and have yet to have one fail since i got them,10 GU10s and the rest split between screw ins and bayonets.
I changed them all at the same time to see if it would make much difference to the next ESB bill and the reduction was noticeable

Andy From Sligo

clintondaly wrote: »

I have every bulb in my house changed to LED with about 2 years using Dealz LEDs and have yet to have one fail since i got them,10 GU10s and the rest split between screw ins and bayonets.
I changed them all at the same time to see if it would make much difference to the next ESB bill and the reduction was noticeable

maybe i got a bad batch or something - i did buy them as soon as they came into dealz , maybe they changed manufacturers? mine were made by ELECTRECK

just found this youtube vid - exactly like my ones I bought from DEALZ except mine didnt have no ventilation holes. But mine failed like the guy's one in the video , they tend to fail as a flicker and then dim and then not light at all:

Get a battery powered portable radio, switch to MW and if the LEDs drive the radio nuts more then several feet on MW then you got junk LED bulbs. If they cause a buzzing all over the house then their pure dirt and you could find a HAM radio Enthusist knocking at your door , yes a lot of them are that bad !

Bring them back and geet good brand named bulbs like Philips.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

Get a battery powered portable radio, switch to MW and if the LEDs drive the radio nuts more then several feet on MW then you got junk LED bulbs. If they cause a buzzing all over the house then their pure dirt and you could find a HAM radio Enthusist knocking at your door , yes a lot of them are that bad !

Bring them back and geet good brand named bulbs like Philips.

thats a good test - whats it mean then bad power factor capacitors/correction they use in them then?