Bord Gais Level Pay - Huge Bills

Bern14

Could someone give me an estimate of how much roughly is reasonable for gas bill per month? We live in South Dublin, detached 2-bed, ~12 yr-old house with modern insulation 2 adults and a 6 yr-old. We don't turn up the heat, it's timed to come on maybe 2-3 times in the Winter a day, it heats our water too and we have a gas stove.
We also were away for 3 weeks over Christmas the house was empty, yet it didn't change our consumption.
I'm really interested in opinions because i've asked around and people around me are shocked at the amount I pay. 
Many thanks

Arbie

Bern14 wrote: »

Could someone give me an estimate of how much roughly is reasonable for gas bill per month? We live in South Dublin, detached 2-bed, ~12 yr-old house with modern insulation 2 adults and a 6 yr-old. We don't turn up the heat, it's timed to come on maybe 2-3 times in the Winter a day, it heats our water too and we have a gas stove.
We also were away for 3 weeks over Christmas the house was empty, yet it didn't change our consumption.
I'm really interested in opinions because i've asked around and people around me are shocked at the amount I pay. 
Many thanks

We used to pay around €80 per month for a terraced 2-bed.

How much do you pay?

L1011

Level pay bills don't change over a year unless you have a very marked difference in usage. You should be able to log on and see how far above or below the actual bill your account is at.

Additionally, are you getting real readings or estimates?

Bern14

Thank you. I get level pay, which is why I signed up to it but maybe that's not best after all?  I'm getting 2 estimated bills and 2 actual readings a year according to the online bill. I'm paying 160EUR/month!! This can't be the right amount even with fluctuating usage, especially if we are not even in the house during winter weeks.
I'm talking to them tomorrow. But any advice on how this should be investigated would be welcome. Thanks!

alig123aileen

I had a similar issue to you went on dual fuel offer save 10% off and 150 cash back but once I took the cash back my bill doubled and they tell me it's because they estimate a bill or your usage is up in lSt year. Dual fuel offer is a marketing ploy that's all. There's an energy regulator that might help if you don't get anywhere with them

PAKNET

How long is your boiler running for 2-3 times a day? Does it heat a hot tank of water or is it an instantaneous system (boiler kicks in and stays running so long as a hot tap is flowing)? How often and for how long do you run your gas stove? Was the boiler totally powered down while you were away? If you check your live account balance might you be in credit?

We ran a 2-bed apartment with a gas boiler on level pay ?45 a month. Hour in the morning, hour in the evening. 5 rads and a hot tank. Boiler would actually only be firing for about half that time as the water got up to temp pretty quick.

Bern14

It's on for half an hour each time. It's a hot tank but we do have immersion as well I think though we never use it.

Gas stove - we cook dinner every day and use the oven 1-2 week for like an hour or so to cook pizzas etc.

We left it to come on for half an hour once a day while we were away. We always used to do that in case it gets too cold etc.

It's not in credit checked. It is for electricity but overall I still owe them money after even paying these massive bills.

PAKNET wrote: »

How long is your boiler running for 2-3 times a day? Does it heat a hot tank of water or is it an instantaneous system (boiler kicks in and stays running so long as a hot tap is flowing)? How often and for how long do you run your gas stove? Was the boiler totally powered down while you were away? If you check your live account balance might you be in credit?

We ran a 2-bed apartment with a gas boiler on level pay ?45 a month. Hour in the morning, hour in the evening. 5 rads and a hot tank. Boiler would actually only be firing for about half that time as the water got up to temp pretty quick.

Heroditas

When did you join Bord Gais and when did you sign up for the Level Pay option as a matter of interest?

Bern14

September 2015. I never got cash back by the way. It was a 80 EUR tesco voucher haha.

TheChizler

I'm on level pay and I need to stop it. Amounts keep changing every few months even though our usage is near constant. Makes it very hard to predict bills which is the opposite of what it's designed to do.

Heroditas

Ignore the cashback. The reason I'm asking is because the companies estimate your annual kWh usage based on the data they have on you.
If they only have 2 months of data, they will base the whole year's bill on that, i.e. multiply the kWh by 6, add a small factor of safety and there's your level pay plan.
If they had a whole year's worth of data, then it's easier to determine an accurate level pay.
They ignore the meter reads that are submitted over the course of the year because that defeats the purpose of level pay. They only do a rounding up or rounding down, i.e. give you money back or ask for more once they carry out a final tally at the end of the 12 months based on the opening meter read and the closing read.
To be honest, I'm not sure this adds up. For a 2 bed house, the annual consumption should be far less than the typical 11,000kWh.
€160 every 2 months might be expected (still a bit high in my opinion) but €160 per month is not right.
I'm barely paying €160 every 2 months in winter and I've a 4 bed semi-d built in the 70s (insulated well though).

Bern14

They're saying this on my last bill, which I can't really translate as I don't know if it's far more than average.  "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your consumption to date with us during the past 12 months = 23413 kWh"[/font]

BetsyEllen

You're with an expensive provider, I would change.
Go onto Bonkers.ie to see who would give you a lower rate.
Check if you're in contract before changing though.
What is your unit rate? If you're out of contract you could be on their standard rate which is very high.

You're supposed to have just 2 estimates a year but if the reader can't get to your meter for any reason (behind a gate, dog in garden, under stairs etc) you'll be getting just estimates.
And they will over estimate usually to cover their backs.

Carry out a meter test - put ALL gas appliances off and take a meter read. Half an hour later, check it again. If the read is higher, your meter is faulty or you have a leak (although you should smell this).

You can also request thst BG register a 'high consumption complaint' with Gas Networks.
GNI will then analyse your consumption and see if it falls in line with the norm.

BetsyEllen

Bern14 wrote: »

They're saying this on my last bill, which I can't really translate as I don't know if it's far more than average.  "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your consumption to date with us during the past 12 months = 23413 kWh"[/font]

This is high - average would be around 12,000 kWh

Bern14

Thank you all for the replies. It's been very helpful. I'm a bit embarrassed to let it go so long without questioning this.

Heroditas

Bern14 wrote: »

They're saying this on my last bill, which I can't really translate as I don't know if it's far more than average.  "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your consumption to date with us during the past 12 months = 23413 kWh"[/font]

Holy crap! That's double the national average figure!
That can't be right.

L1011

Heroditas wrote: »

Holy crap! That's double the national average figure!
That can't be right.

Few options (for the OP)

1: Your boiler is shot
2: Your meter is shot
3: You do not have a combo boiler and are keeping a water tank hot 24/7 rather than on demand. It may also be poorly insulated.

2 you can check by checking the meter with no heating or cooking going.

If 3 is the case you need to consider rework basically. You'd want to get more than 12 years life out of a boiler realistically but manufacturers often suggest 10 as a lifespan; new combo boiler could pay for itself over that. SEAI grants available and some energy suppliers provide credit for new or upgraded installs

dubrov

I remember being on level pay a few years ago and thinking it was high.
As I recall, they add about 20% on top of their estimate in the first year (I guess to cover the risk of the estimate being wrong). It all gets washed up at the end of the year and you get the money back then.

So the problem may be due to an estimate. However, given you signed up in 2015, they would have already settled a full year so it is more likely that you are just using a lot of electricity somehow.

gizmo81

We are on level pay for gas and electricity and just ring in a meter reading the week before the bills are due, very little fluctuation, gas went up after winter cause it was on more.

Bern14

Update: just spoke to them and they said our usage doesn't seem that high...when I quoted the national average https://www.bonkers.ie/guides/gas-electricity/national-average-energy-consumption/ they didn't seem to agree, said it's not unusual to have 330EUR bill for 2 months in the winter. Also, I seem to be paying of a balance (they screwed up in the beginning by not charging me right) so it will go down by 40-50/month but will still be around 100EUR/month at best. 
Anyway, we are getting boiler looked at and the meter testing to eliminate other problems before switching providers most likely.

alig123aileen

TheChizler wrote: »

I'm on level pay and I need to stop it. Amounts keep changing every few months even though our usage is near constant. Makes it very hard to predict bills which is the opposite of what it's designed to do.

I am exactly the same level pay.






bill varies

wildly between 20e per month and 100 per. O the especially after I took the 100 cash back even though my usage hadn't changed. Bord Gail don't seem to have an answer

The_Conductor

TheChizler wrote: »

I'm on level pay and I need to stop it. Amounts keep changing every few months even though our usage is near constant. Makes it very hard to predict bills which is the opposite of what it's designed to do.

I got a text message today- to say my electricity usage has been reviewed and there was a new amount being applied to my account. I don't pay a lot of attention to it- but I just logged on- and low and behold- my electricity bill is going up 40 a month- despite a 200 Euro credit on the account- and my gas bill, despite being in credit by over 400 Euro- they aren't willing to reduce downwards. So- I'm paying them money I don't have- when in actual fact they have large credits on both my gas and electricity accounts- and despite the 200 Euro credit on my electricity account- they want to increase it by another 40 a month........ It makes no sense whatsoever to me........

MOH

That's the problem with level pay. You're effectively giving them an interest-free loan in return for the theoretical benefit of being able to budget a fixed amount for your bill every month.

But since they control that fixed amount, they're going to set it so that you're always going to have paid at least the amount they estimate you'll have used, with a hefty margin of error factored in.

Your amount might be fixed (until they decide to change it!) but I'd imagine in any given year most people will end up paying more in total than they would have without level pay. And then you've to go through the hassle of trying to get the excess back off them.

TheDoc

€160 a month?!?!??!

Get out of that supplier or tarriff asap.

Last gas bill I paid was €130 and that's on the 60 day cycle. Three bed house, old but no real drafts, two adults and two very young children/babies so heating used a lot. Granted our gas was just for heat and hot water, €160 a month sounds mental.

L1011

TheDoc wrote: »

€160 a month?!?!??!

Get out of that supplier or tarriff asap.

Based on the actual usage figures given here, they won't save much - their usage is immense.

Bern14

Thanks all! Well, we have eliminated the meter being faulty so getting the boiler looked at to see what's wrong because we are definitely not using it excessively.

The_Conductor

Bern14 wrote: »

Thanks all! Well, we have eliminated the meter being faulty so getting the boiler looked at to see what's wrong because we are definitely not using it excessively.

Some little things- like lowering the temperature 1 degree- which is imperceptible to most people- can cut 15-20% off your gas bill. Also- having a modern condenser boiler- can be 30-40% more efficient than an older boiler. I replaced my boiler last winter- I've probably saved the entire cost of the new boiler and its installation from my gas bill over the last 16-17 months- it can make that much of a difference........

the_syco

Bern14 wrote: »

It's on for half an hour each time. It's a hot tank but we do have immersion as well I think though we never use it.

How thick is the insulation on the tank, and what of insulation is it? How quickly does it cool down/lose heat?

swanie29

Bern14 wrote: »

They're saying this on my last bill, which I can't really translate as I don't know if it's far more than average. "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your consumption to date with us during the past 12 months = 23413 kWh"[/font]

I just came off level pay and got a final bill of 150 even though bills were all paid so if you do change off bear that in mind and also panda power has the best rates at the moment
best of luck