Manchester United vs Anderlecht. Thursday 20th 20:05

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Pogba is a midfielder, just because ManUtd paid 89 Million doesnt make him score more goals and assists in every game.

Pogba made the most tackles out of any player and created the most chances out of any player last night

But sure the agenda is getting set in stone for some

I think it's a case of the odd mistake being jumped on and is blinding his actual performance as a whole

He should continue to improve on certain decisions he makes and his finishing needs improvement but regardless he was still one of the best players on the pitch last night

Carrick was the fault in midfield not Pogba

Cotts72

Tyson Fury wrote: »

If that was one of Pogba's best games I'd hate to see some of his worst.

This is the most expensive player in the world. Faffing about in midfield.

His performance was far from faffing! And as mentioned his price tag doesn't make a difference, he didn't ask to be named the most expensive player

Giggsy11

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Pogba made the most tackles out of any player and created the most chances out of any player last night

But sure the agenda is getting set in stone for some

I think it's a case of the odd mistake being jumped on and is blinding his actual performance as a whole

He should continue to improve on certain decisions he makes and his finishing needs improvement but regardless he was still one of the best players on the pitch last night

Carrick was the fault in midfield not Pogba

Exactly. He won 9 tackles, which is twice than the second highest. Played highest number of passes, created most or second most chances.

Without even going to stats, it was so obvious it was Pogba was controlled the game.

Mantis Toboggan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Pogba is a midfielder, just because ManUtd paid 89 Million doesnt make him score more goals and assists in every game.

No but you'd at least expect him to be the best midfielder at the club and one of the best in the premier league which he is neither.

There's a good argument to be made that we're a better team with him on the bench.

If we spent 20 million on him I'd say fair enough but we spent 90 million pound and his performance last night just isn't good enough.

Tyson Fury

Tyson Fury wrote: »

No but you'd at least expect him to be the best midfielder at the club and one of the best in the premier league which he is neither.

There's a good argument to be made that we're a better team with him on the bench.

If we spent 20 million on him I'd say fair enough but we spent 90 million pound and his performance last night just isn't good enough.

Are you completely ignoring the facts or just slightly?

Nalz

Notorious wrote: »

As much as I enjoyed seeing Owen play for the club, he has stolen a career in punditry.

It's a tad bit harsh on Michael Owen. I find he's an easy target for the interwebers of the world sometimes. Yes, he comes out with some golden turds sometimes, but so does Redknapp, Keane, Wilkins, Souness, Duff, Sadlier etc etc. Even Neville and Carragher have their moments.

He's not the greatest pundit, but stolen a career imho is a little harsh.

theoneeyedman

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly. He won 9 tackles, which is twice than the second highest. Played highest number of passes, created most or second most chances.

Without even going to stats, it was so obvious it was Pogba was controlled the game.

Again I'm going to question the chances created stat.
I missed a lot of the first half, but most of the chances I saw created by united including Pogba, were long, diagonal hail Mary type 'passes' into the box. Not particularly skillful nor creative in my view. The ball is knocked down and pinballs around before somebody has a snap shot in a crowded penalty area (crowded because the opposition know the long ball is coming.
If ireland circa 1988 kept these stats, Packie Bonner probably created the most chances

Mantis Toboggan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Are you completely ignoring the facts or just slightly?

Nah my problem with him is that there's no intensity about him, no drive or urgency, and that's what's badly needed in the team. No stats will show that.

He coasts around in second gear, almost always takes more touches than he should which slows down the move.

When he gets the ball it's like he's in his own little game and he has to try something instead of just giving the correct pass. Also his decision making and positional sense are poor for a "top level" midfielder. Again stats won't show this.

Giggsy11

Tyson Fury wrote: »

No but you'd at least expect him to be the best midfielder at the club and one of the best in the premier league which he is neither.

There's a good argument to be made that we're a better team with him on the bench.

If we spent 20 million on him I'd say fair enough but we spent 90 million pound and his performance last night just isn't good enough.

He is one of the best CMs in the league if you judge by his performance rather than price tag. No CM has created more chances than him.

Good argument? It would be piss poor argument and not even worth having one.

So Rashford came from academy, so for a free player can we say that was the GOAT performance? Problem is not Pogba, it's how you can't differentiate between price tag and player you are watching.

Giggsy11

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Again I'm going to question the chances created stat.
I missed a lot of the first half, but most of the chances I saw created by united including Pogba, were long, diagonal hail Mary type 'passes' into the box. Not particularly skillful nor creative in my view. The ball is knocked down and pinballs around before somebody has a snap shot in a crowded penalty area (crowded because the opposition know the long ball is coming.
If ireland circa 1988 kept these stats, Packie Bonner probably created the most chances

You can question whatever you want to but the stats are stats.

You can't create chance by slipping through ball when the defense is crowded and you have players playing with their back to the goal.

His long range passing was joy to watch. He completely ran the show. Not sure what games you were watching.

Tyson Fury

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Nah my problem with him is that there's no intensity about him, no drive or urgency, and that's what's badly needed in the team. No stats will show that.

He coasts around in second gear, almost always takes more touches than he should which slows down the move.

When he gets the ball it's like he's in his own little game and he has to try something instead of just giving the correct pass. Also his decision making and positional sense are poor for a "top level" midfielder. Again stats won't show this.

How could he possibly have no intensity / drive / urgency on the pitch?

So in order to create the best chances and make the most tackles he stood still?

He made 5 first time through balls last night and 4 of them he put Shaw, Rashford x2 and Ibra clear through on Goal. First time? Decision making? Yes

The Talking Bread

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Nah my problem with him is that there's no intensity about him, no drive or urgency, and that's what's badly needed in the team. No stats will show that.

He coasts around in second gear, almost always takes more touches than he should which slows down the move.

When he gets the ball it's like he's in his own little game and he has to try something instead of just giving the correct pass. Also his decision making and positional sense are poor for a "top level" midfielder. Again stats won't show this.

Christ almighty!

Nailz

What a lot of people don't seem to understand with the profuse fees that mega-clubs like United pay for players like Pogba is that they are not just paying for a football player to play within the team and to improve their sporting endeavors; they are paying for a business opportunity, a highly marketable brand, they're making an investment.

And as much as people don't like it, to Manchester United, the business, Pogba's definitely worth the £90 million they spent on him. It's because his image and personal brand wins the business more money in lucrative sponsorship deals, it means they can sell more jerseys for Adidas increasing the clubs commission and the worth of our kit contract, and much more. But, as part of that £90 million, Manchester United, the football club, gets an exceptional young player with loads of potential and possibly over a decade of contribution to give to the team.

That all adds up, but if you are judging his performances on the pitch based off the entirety off the figure the club bought him for, you are just being thick.

Mantis Toboggan

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Nah my problem with him is that there's no intensity about him, no drive or urgency, and that's what's badly needed in the team. No stats will show that.

He coasts around in second gear, almost always takes more touches than he should which slows down the move.

When he gets the ball it's like he's in his own little game and he has to try something instead of just giving the correct pass. Also his decision making and positional sense are poor for a "top level" midfielder. Again stats won't show this.

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Christ almighty!

Truth hurts

Tyson Fury

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Truth hurts

You have yet to back up any of your posts with facts
Truth it most certainly is not

Mantis Toboggan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

You have yet to back up any of your posts with facts
Truth it most certainly is not

As I said you won't find any stats that shows that he takes too many touches of the ball and shows down the play. Or that his positional play is poor, or his lack of intensity.

Maybe if I did a Monday night football style powerpoint presentation and sent it to you you might start to understand.

Brendan Flowers

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Needless to say, that was far from impressive or convincing, despite what the BT team are trying to convince you of. I won't stick around here long but, two questions to ponder.

Is this a line you just constantly trot out to avoid having to engage in any sort of intelligent conversation? Even though I dont expect a response I will give my opinion on the points you made below.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What is Mourinho actually building? Because this first season at the helm has been strange.

The second question is actually a quote from the great César Luis Menotti; what is football without beauty? There is little attacking flair or flourish to admire in this Man Utd side. Even Atletico Madrid, renowned hard-grafting unit, have more subtlety and dimensions to their play than this.

Anyone who questions what Mourinho is building at Man Utd hasn't watched them regularly this season. Or more importantly, didnt watch much of them last season under LvG. The way the team plays now is night and day when compared with last year. I'd go as far as to say only Chelsea have improved the quality of their football in the last 12 months more so than Utd. I can imagine some will be saying now that Pep has done better with City. I disagree. Pellegrini had them playing great football and up until the point when the managerial change was announced, City were a very strong team.

"Long ball" is the term people are throwing about to belittle Man Utd's playing style last night. But what about the other systems they played up until that point, these always get ignored. Also any world class manager will have the ability to chance the style of his team in order to get a required result. Even Sir Alex Ferguson, probably the greatest manager of all time was known to play some ugly football when it was necessary to getting a desired result. In fact I'd be questioning a manager who couldnt adopt a team to suit certain circumstances.

Also I saw a very interesting post here a few days ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103246455&postcount=9620

Jose has shown great faith in the younger players at Utd, more so than rival managers at some of the other top clubs. It shows he's building for the future, taking it back somewhat to the Fergie era. Certainly he is going in the right direction in terms of undoing the damage caused to the club in the Moyes/LvG periods.

bucketybuck

Nailz wrote: »

That all adds up, but if you are judging his performances on the pitch based off the entirety off the figure the club bought him for, you are just being thick.

There is nothing thick about taking every factor into account when assessing a players performances. Context matters and fans have every right to have higher expectations of higher valued players.

I hope Pogba turns out to have been a bargain in later years, but I think its fair to say that we would be in a better position this season had we spent half that amount of money on a more established player that better suited our immediate needs.

Tyson Fury

Tyson Fury wrote: »

As I said you won't find any stats that shows that he takes too many touches of the ball and shows down the play. Or that his positional play is poor, or his lack of intensity.

Maybe if I did a Monday night football style powerpoint presentation and sent it to you you might start to understand.

I don't think you understand what these word means.
Finding himself inside the box and nearly scoring 3 times is poor positional play?
Picking up the ball in midfield and playing a killer pass is poor positional play?
You are just throwing out on liners without backing anything up
Lack on intensity? I just detailed to you how that's not true in a previous post.

I have openly said he needs to improve on certain aspects of his game including sometimes taking too many touches but the good clearly outweighed the bad last night.

Nailz

bucketybuck wrote: »

There is nothing thick about taking every factor into account when assessing a players performances. Context matters and fans have every right to have higher expectations of higher valued players.

The thing is they're not taking every factor into account, that was my point.

Billy86

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Pogba made the most tackles out of any player and created the most chances out of any player last night

But sure the agenda is getting set in stone for some

I think it's a case of the odd mistake being jumped on and is blinding his actual performance as a whole

He should continue to improve on certain decisions he makes and his finishing needs improvement but regardless he was still one of the best players on the pitch last night

Carrick was the fault in midfield not Pogba

It was my worry when we paid that much for him with a midfield not really set to get the best out of him - exact same thing happened with De Gea and Ronaldo too. Before 2006/07, Ronaldo would still go through patches of being arguably the best player at the club performance wise but his detractors would go out of their way to overlook it, and some even tried continuing that into and beyond 2006/07 when he was the best player in the league.

The same was the case for DDG and in a position like GK it is much easier to deny sheer class and nitpick any problems, he was the best GK in the league, quite possibly the best player on the whole team, and possibly the best GK in the world outside of Neuer for a good two years, and still plenty of people (including United fans) were desperately still trying to write him off as 'dodgy' or paint him as only good at some reflex saves etc. We're likely going to see the same for Pogba for the next two years or so also unless he puts up 20 goals and 15 assists in a season, I'm pretty certain of it at this point.

Mantis Toboggan

Hopefully he can improve sooner rather than later, having spent most of the transfer kitty on him expectations were always going to be high, however patience must start to run out on him if the season turns into a failure.

Tyson Fury

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Hopefully he can improve sooner rather than later, having spent most of the transfer kitty on him expectations were always going to be high, however patience must start to run out on him if the season turns into a failure.

1 season?

If you consider the season a failure the you should look to Jose as much as the failings of the team collectively and as indiviuals

The Talking Bread

M!Ck^ wrote: »

1 season?

If you consider the season a failure the you should look to Jose as much as the failings of the team collectively and as indiviuals

No point entertaining this nonsense. Like TGM and his hatred of Ronaldo, I imagine it is driven out of what he wants to see and what he wants to ignore and a few silly posts on internet threads about Pogba.

RobertKK

Pogba long balls...because he can...the aim is to get goals, when capable of world class long passes forward with precision accuracy, why not use it when it is part of your arsenal?

The Talking Bread

If you have players on the pitch like Ibra, Fellaini, Rashford and Pogba, and surging wingers like Valencia and Shaw you would be foolish not to attempt occasional long ball tactics when you are in need of a goal against a tired defence.

But Uniteds game wasn't solely about that last night at all. Needs must.

jayo26

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But Uniteds game wasn't solely about that last night at all. Needs must.

It never is but same as the Middlesbrough match people would have you think United started with six at the back.

Last night was a typical European game we have had lots of them in the past it just gets blown up because the bloody forwards keep missing chances.

Notorious

Nalz wrote: »

He's not the greatest pundit, but stolen a career imho is a little harsh.

Each to their own, but I don't rate him at all. It's a given that we all can't play our A game 100% of the time; everyone makes mistakes. I think Owen's punditry is severely lacking. His ability to critique the game is poor.

To be fair, he could've improved in recent times. I haven't seen him on a panel in at least six months.

Jayop

Owen is full of **** but you can tell he enjoys the football and that makes him easy to listen to. Not bitter like most of them are either.