Another day, another beginner seeking advice thread!

Pelvis

So, looking to get on a bike in the next month or two on an "A" learner permit, I am 33. Looking for some guidance on a few things.

The Bike

Firstly, I'm a large fellow. I am 6'4, 110kg+. So I'm looking for something to suit my frame, with an upright seated position. It would mainly be used for short city driving commutes, but would be nice to have something suitable for weekend excursions. From my research thus far, the V-Strom DL650 seems to be ideal. Would this be a good beginner bike, and what other bikes are comparable? I've read about the other common suggestions SV650, Hornet, Bandit, but something tells me I might be a bit big for these. Of course I will be paying a visit to a bike shop to sit on as many as possible!

If possible I would like to get a bike that's suitable for the driving test as I don't like the idea of using a bike I'm not used to for that, but I must admit I'm not entirely certain about how to identify if potential suitors are compatible for the test if they aren't listed on the RSA Website. For instance it says the 650X V-Strom is compatible with A2, and that DL1000 V-Strom is find for category A. Are the RSA trying to get me to buy a litre bike?? Sense, it makes none. :eek:

Budget for bike alone, less than 3k would be nice.

PPE

Helmets: Not sure weather to go for full face or flip up, or the pros and cons of either, from a safety perspective, are they equals? I'd like it to be practical, I wouldn't want to be removing the thing every time I want to step into a petrol station for instance. Also, I wear glasses, so flip up seems like it would be the obvious choice, and as I wear glasses I think an internal visor is essential also.

I don't mind spending the money on quality, but generally, at what price point do I stop paying for the helmet and start paying for decals and the like?

For clothing, is there a clear winner between leather and textiles? And again, is there a price point at which I know I'm getting quality? Is there any discernible difference between a €200 & €350 jacket?

Also how practical are these? Do you all just wear your normal clothes underneath when heading into work?

Many thanks! I'm sure I'll have many more questions!

CaptainR

A well fitted full face is the safest option no doubt. Theres been incidents where some cheaper flip ups have popped open in a crash but its certainly a rarity.They also tend to be lighter than a flip up as they don't have the hinge mechanism. Unless you were constantly on and off the bike like for deliveries or the like then a flip up is kind of unnecessary. I walk into petrol stations with my lid on and have never had a problem, even in "rougher" areas where the clerk might be a bit more suspicious.

HJC are probably some of the best budget helmets, Shark are decent too.

The main thing with leather is that it isn't waterproof, so you'd need a rain proof over suit to go over it in the wet. Textile is waterproof and if you buy good quality it can be genuinely leak proof but it'll cost you. Goretex is the pinnacle and I got someone's 10 year old second hand two piece textiles for free and they have yet to let in water.

For work, you can get textile trousers and jacket in a bigger size and they'll fit comfortably over your normal clothes. Although in the summer you might be better bringing your clothes in seperately and changing into them.

For the bike, the A category bikes have to have over a certain amount of power, I think its in the 50kW range but it also has to be light enough for the power to weight ratio to be over a certain amount. I think a 600 inline four is basically the minimum, the 650 twins fall under the power requirements OR the power to weight ratio isn't good enough. I know that my A2 license won't let me on a Deauville unless its restricted but you cant do the A test on it cause its too heavy.

frozenfrozen

I don't take off my lid for petrol stations 80% of the time and for the money you'll get a better non-flip up D ring helmet than you would get a flip up fancy buckle helmet.

and with the glasses and internal visor etc I rarely if ever use my internal flip down visor so it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I also 99% of the time wear contact lenses on the bike, fair enough in the summer you could wear glasses but they fog up instantly in the winter.


for your helmet the only absolute must would be a pinlock insert, light, and passes all the safety shiz.


Flip ups IMO are for people like gardai, couriers, bike instructors, etc who would spend their life taking the lid off and on. If the only time you'll be taking it off is the beginning and end of journeys and some of the time at petrol stations... that would put you in the normal helmet zone

thos

Helmet - you can check safety ratings and results here https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/ which help inform your opinion on price and style.

Bike - I worried about buying a bike to be able to do test on, but after doing my IBT with Airport Driving School, they can also rent you a buy to do the test on, so allows me to buy something that suits me, without getting distracted if it's useful for a one-time test or not.

Lumen

CaptainR wrote: »

The main thing with leather is that it isn't waterproof, so you'd need a rain proof over suit to go over it in the wet. Textile is waterproof and if you buy good quality it can be genuinely leak proof but it'll cost you. Goretex is the pinnacle and I got someone's 10 year old second hand two piece textiles for free and they have yet to let in water.

I wear a waterproof layer under my leather jacket. It has the benefit of looking awesome, according to me.

zubair

Best thing to do is get your licence and do the ibt. You'll know better yourself then. But all of your own thoughts seem like one of the most sensible approaches I've seen on the forum for a while. Glad we don't have to go over the whole sports bike vs beginners scenario. The dl650 would be a good starter bike and while I'm not sure where it stands for the test I doubt the tester will check or even care, I'm sure you'll find out on the rsa site. I use a flip up lid, caberg duke, it has a 5 star sharp rating and it has the internal sv, based on your requirements it sounds like that's what you need. Textile rather than leather, they're waterproof and then you don't have to faf about (thanks baron) with over layers, you can get leathers later but you don't need them to start. That said, back to my first point, get your license do the ibt and then you'll know better.

CaptainR

Lumen wrote: »

I wear a waterproof layer under my leather jacket. It has the benefit of looking awesome, according to me.

So its the clothing equivilant of a leaky roof and an umbrella? :pac:

Wonda-Boy

Flip up lids are IDEAL for touring, when you will be stopping alot in petrol stations asking for directions and border/passport checks and boarding ferries etc. very handy not taking them on and off. But starting out I would go for a full face "D" ring lid does not have to be mad money but make sure you get a good brand Id recommend a nice shark lid to start.

You are a big lump so be very careful, getting the wrong bike now could put you off biking altogether TBH, A V-Strom 650 is a good bike but not the quickest and with your weight on it would be a little sluggish but would do you for 6-12 mths till you get your wits about you.

Best of luck and welcome to the gang.

Pelvis

Thanks all, full face it is so! The shark helmets look good, and not crazy expensive either. Can you get them with pinlock visors or are they sold separately?

I think I will opt for textile gear, lack of waterproofing is really an option!

What's the story with boots? Seems to be a crazy selection available, some of which seem awfully S&M-ish . What's the min requirement here?

For the bike, what are people's thoughts on something like the Honda CBF600, Yamaha FZ6 or Kawasaki Versys compared to the V-Strom? Would like to have a few options when it comes to buy, not a lot of DL650s about, in my price range anyway.

I'm 5'9"/31" inseam and the hornet can feel cramped after just a couple of hours. At 6'4" I think you'd come to hate it pretty quick.

colm_c

At that height/size, you need to be looking at the adventure/trailie bikes, everything else will feel cramped.

Wonda-Boy

Pelvis wrote: »

Thanks all, full face it is so! The shark helmets look good, and not crazy expensive either. Can you get them with pinlock visors or are they sold separately?

I think I will opt for textile gear, lack of waterproofing is really an option!

What's the story with boots? Seems to be a crazy selection available, some of which seem awfully S&M-ish . What's the min requirement here?

For the bike, what are people's thoughts on something like the Honda CBF600, Yamaha FZ6 or Kawasaki Versys compared to the V-Strom? Would like to have a few options when it comes to buy, not a lot of DL650s about, in my price range anyway.

Most textiles are waterproof or at the very least water resistant. I really like the RST stuff and it has come an awful long way in the last 5-6 years. For the sake of a few euro extra I would get it over the other brands like Richa etc.

The RST Paragon suit I have is still perfect after 4 yrs and never leaked once and I have been in some terrible storms and rain all over Europe. And I think its really well priced.

If you can try to wait for the NEC show in Birmingham this November, some great bargains every year over there and flights are only €38 return.

Again get the best you can afford, I would be inclined to get a full boot with calf and ankle protection if you can.

MSVforever

I have similar measurements as the OP.
It can be difficult to get the right size clothing. I got oxford textiles in Megabikes for very reasonable money. They stock big n tall sizes.

I bought a HJC IS17 helmet which comes with a pinlock insert and an integrated sun visor. Its a great helmet for glasses wearer (you can get it from a German online bike shop for half the price it retails in bikeworld).

Dont skimp on boots if you want to be comfy. Just bought myself a pair of Daytona Traveller boots in Maddocks Bray (€360 but high quality).

I did my IBT on a naked Bandit 600 and a ER6. I preferred the bandit and bought the same model last July for €2k. I liked it very much but wanted to get something more comfy/upright with better weather protection. I traded the bandit plus some cash for a v strom 650. While the strom doesnt feel so sporty it has still enough power on tap. Was on the M50 and doing 110 kph....well at least I thought I did...it was actually 110 mph....)

I dont think the V strom 650 has the power/weight ratio for the test though.
Btw my former bandit is currently for sale in a bikeshop in Leixlip.

zubair

+1 for rst. Use their jacket and jeans daily all year round.

Pelvis

Took a trip to bikeworld today. Sat on a few, the SV650 felt really quite cramped, so I think that and similar bikes are out.

Also sat on the V-Strom, felt very comfortable, a little intimidating actually :eek:. The seating position was definitely more comfortable, if a little strange, takes some getting used to I guess. The motion for gear changing also felt very awkward, I can imagine it being quite difficult with boots on.

Also attempted to try on a few helmets, none even came close to fitting, up as far as 2XL.

frozenfrozen

You can adjust the height of the gear selector so don't worry about that

Wonda-Boy

Pelvis wrote: »

up as far as 2XL.

Wha'....a 2XL helmet wont fit your crust!!!

Ah here, just wrap your noggin in tin foil.....

CaptainR

Just make sure that the helmet is too small for your actual head and not just your cheeks. I made the mistake of buying a Large and when it was broken in I realised it was way too loose.

Pelvis

Well, the ones I actually managed to get on my head were quite painful to get off, plus I wouldn't have been able to get my glasses on, and I could see blood flow being an issue had I left the helmets on

zubair

Wtf is this Arnies boards account? Might want a flip up lid in that case, you can open it and put it on but a good fitting lid usually has a bit of a squeeze though. As per the lads if you buy a comfy ome within a week it will be too loose and unsafe.

Good to get an idea of what bike to get but after the ibt you'll have a much better idea. I would never have called the sv cramped when I owned one but after the vfr, cbf and other tourers it felt cramped. The dl will be fine and won't be intimidating once you have some experience, it's not much heavier than the sv and the extra bulk is all just plastics. The lads all rave about the fz6 and they weren't short arses, worth trying. The gears won't be a problem, you'll figure it out after you've had your lessons, to be honest it's all pretty foreign until you've had some practice.

I'd recommend getting the ball rolling now as the season is just starting and it's not necessarily a fast process, there's no point in getting started in September.

Hotblack Desiato

Might depend on where you live and the type of ride/commute you have to do. Dublin-ish September isn't necessarily a bad time to get started, will be February probably before you hit proper bad weather. Early autumn can be drier and nicer to be on the bike than 'summer', depending on the year. Up north or out west could be a different story though.

zubair

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Might depend on where you live and the type of ride/commute you have to do. Dublin-ish September isn't necessarily a bad time to get started, will be February probably before you hit proper bad weather. Early autumn can be drier and nicer to be on the bike than 'summer', depending on the year. Up north or out west could be a different story though.

You must be in the Bahamas, I'm in kildare! :cool:

MSVforever

Pelvis wrote: »

Well, the ones I actually managed to get on my head were quite painful to get off, plus I wouldn't have been able to get my glasses on, and I could see blood flow being an issue had I left the helmets on

Did you try on the HJC IS17?
I have one in 2xl and it fits nicely without cutting if my blood flow. It has an insert for glasses as well.
I would also recommend you to buy some fogtech liquid which prevents fogging up glasses. Its from the states but the Irish Airsoft shop in Blanch are selling it as well.

Forget about price and features like integrated visors at the start. Fit your head is first, fit your wants and pocket is secondary.

Find which brand(s) of helmet which fits your head properly first. You can then look to find a deal on a model in their range that will fit your budget once you know which brand/shape suits. Be careful as some brands offer different ranges for different shapes of head. Arai would be one that do that.

The people in the shop can help if they know what their at. Ask them and walk if they don't take a tape to measure your head and offer at least 3 different makes to try on.

If it was tight at the front/back and you were trying a 2XL, you probably need to focus on Oval or maybe an intermediate oval helmet. If it was okay front and back but too tight at the sides, try a Round helmet shape or possibly an intermediate oval also.

Pelvis

I did try a HJC though not sure which one specifically.

I broke out the tape measure last night, 64cm, which seems to be the upper range for 2XL, so I guess I just have a fat head Also when trying the helmets my chin was lower than the helmet, which I don't think is how it should be?

I won't be leaving all this till September. Have some exams in May and plan on doing the ibt as soon as they're done, and assuming that hasn't put me off I'll be looking to buy ASAP.

Wonda-Boy

Get a piss pot lid

Cian_ok

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Might depend on where you live and the type of ride/commute you have to do. Dublin-ish September isn't necessarily a bad time to get started, will be February probably before you hit proper bad weather. Early autumn can be drier and nicer to be on the bike than 'summer', depending on the year. Up north or out west could be a different story though.

My experience as a new rider last year wad different.

I started commuting in the summer, (15 km on the N11 into town). It wss warm, bright, and light traffic! I was just getting to terms with things when I was hit with September!

The traffic doubled and slowed down and people did stupid things. I percevered and I was just getting to terms with things when November hit!

The hour changed. So I was driving home in the dark, in slow and heavy traffic. Again I struggled for a while. And as I was getting comfortable, the weather changed.

Cold. Wet. Windy. More struggle. More learning.

Then, in February I realised I was past the worst.

I'm glad that I didn't start in September as I would have found the heavy traffic difficult to deal with as a newbie rider.

Pelvis

MSVforever wrote: »

Did you try on the HJC IS17?
I have one in 2xl and it fits nicely without cutting if my blood flow. It has an insert for glasses as well.
I would also recommend you to buy some fogtech liquid which prevents fogging up glasses. Its from the states but the Irish Airsoft shop in Blanch are selling it as well.

Tried one of these out today. Still the 2XL was on the small side, though not as bad as those I tried the other week.

I also tried the Shoei Neotec Flip Front helmet, it was also very very snug, but probably felt the best out of all the 2XL helmets I tried, though way out of my price range.

I also tried the HJC CL-SP 3XL, and it felt pretty much perfect. Though it's not listed here: https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/. And is on the low end budget wise, so not sure if I should be questioning that.

zubair

In looking at the other HJCs that have been tested of 25 just 7 scored 4 or above. Personally I wouldn't consider it based on this. I would recommend the Box BX1, can be got for around €60, goes up to 2XL and has a 4 star rating, also, it's a round shape so should fit your ginormous noggin! It's basic but you're only starting so just need protection, you can get a better lid later. Try it on in for size in bikeworld and get it for half the price online.

Any progress with the permit?

Wonda-Boy

Ahh the infamous SHARP tests I bet.....we would need a whole servers bandwidth dedicated to make sense of them tests!

zubair

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Ahh the infamous SHARP tests I bet.....we would need a whole servers bandwidth dedicated to make sense of them tests!

Someone own a low scoring lid?!